For Those Calling For The Return Of Capital Punishment

[bad company]

Here’s another example of the most appalling miscarriage of justice:-

US woman freed after 43 years in prison for murder she didn’t commit https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cx920kqgkx9o

[Simpo Two]

But what if you catch the culprit with a smoking gun? Or knife? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_David_Ames...

[BoRED S2upid]

Simpo Two said:

But what if you catch the culprit with a smoking gun? Or knife? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_David_Ames...

Or that butter with the crossbow caught on cctv leaving the house with it under his arm rather than leaving it at the scene. No doubt he did it.

[Robertb]

BoRED S2upid said:

Simpo Two said:

But what if you catch the culprit with a smoking gun? Or knife? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_David_Ames...

Or that butter with the crossbow caught on cctv leaving the house with it under his arm rather than leaving it at the scene. No doubt he did it.

To be fair, he tried to kill himself so you’d be doing him a favour.

Better keep him alive, face justice and live with what he did for the rest of his days.

[BoRED S2upid]

Robertb said:

BoRED S2upid said:

Simpo Two said:

But what if you catch the culprit with a smoking gun? Or knife? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_of_David_Ames...

Or that butter with the crossbow caught on cctv leaving the house with it under his arm rather than leaving it at the scene. No doubt he did it.

To be fair, he tried to kill himself so you’d be doing him a favour.

Better keep him alive, face justice and live with what he did for the rest of his days.

There is that. Or the board lodgings and illegal drugs we supply for him for the next 5,10,15 years at a crazy expense to us erases those memories and he’s let out with 20 years of his life left paid for by us as he has no pension….

[SmoothCriminal]

1 random case from the us won't sway the fact there are many sick individuals, baby killers, peados, serial rapists and murderers in our prisons who have been convicted with compelling evidence that society could do without.

[texaxile]

SmoothCriminal said:

1 random case from the us won't sway the fact there are many sick individuals, baby killers, peados, serial rapists and murderers in our prisons who have been convicted with compelling evidence that society could do without.

Sadly many bleeding heart liberals use the exceptions to prove their rule.

Those responsible for Baby P, Victoria Climbe and James bulger are worthy of being on the list, but many seem to go very quiet when presented with the facts to support ending their lives on the basis of the convictions.

[FMOB]

The simple truth is if a mistake is made and the person has been executed you can't correct it.

With the best will in the world mistakes happen.

[texaxile]

FMOB said:

The simple truth is if a mistake is made and the person has been executed you can't correct it.

With the best will in the world mistakes happen.

And in the cases quoted above, what mistakes might be made?.

[Terminator X]

I'm all for it if murder with multiple witnesses eg such as the Lee Rigby murder.

TX.

[bad company]

FMOB said:

The simple truth is if a mistake is made and the person has been executed you can't correct it.

With the best will in the world mistakes happen.

This.

[otolith]

There’s a false dichotomy being drawn between “sure” and “really really swear to god sure”. If there is any doubt, the jury must acquit. If there is anyone you wouldn’t execute under your theoretical regime, you should be supporting their acquittal because you are saying that their conviction is unsafe.

[the-norseman]

Terminator X said:

I'm all for it if murder with multiple witnesses eg such as the Lee Rigby murder.

TX.

Yep

[Muzzer79]

texaxile said:

FMOB said:

The simple truth is if a mistake is made and the person has been executed you can't correct it.

With the best will in the world mistakes happen.

And in the cases quoted above, what mistakes might be made?.

The trouble is, the law doesn’t work that way

You can’t say that one person is guilty and one person is really guilty therefore the latter is OK to be put to the gallows.

Sentencing is based on a crime and the severity of it. If you decide that killing a child is death-worthy then all child killers get it.

Then, mistakes happen.

[hidetheelephants]

FMOB said:

The simple truth is if a mistake is made and the person has been executed you can't correct it.

With the best will in the world mistakes happen.

And that's before exploring all the ways bent cops have fitted people up.

[E63eeeeee...]

Muzzer79 said:

texaxile said:

FMOB said:

The simple truth is if a mistake is made and the person has been executed you can't correct it.

With the best will in the world mistakes happen.

And in the cases quoted above, what mistakes might be made?.

The trouble is, the law doesn’t work that way

You can’t say that one person is guilty and one person is really guilty therefore the latter is OK to be put to the gallows.

Sentencing is based on a crime and the severity of it. If you decide that killing a child is death-worthy then all child killers get it.

Then, mistakes happen.

But there's no reason the law *has* to work that way. Scottish law had the concept of not proven. Civil law works to different standards from criminal. There's no reason it has to just be a binary guilty/ not guilty. You could have graduated levels of confidence in someone's guilt, from the balance of probability to beyond reasonable doubt, to beyond any doubt, with appropriately graduated punishments. There's already sentencing ranges too, the same crime doesn't always receive the same punishment.

I think it ought to be possible to contrive a system where there are thresholds where the crime is sufficiently egregious and there is sufficient confidence in their guilt that there's at least a consideration of whether it makes sense to lock them up for decades at significant cost with no prospect of release. I think you could probably name most of the people who would have met the thresholds. The thing with most of the miscarriage cases is that they're generally not particularly strong cases, for obvious reasons they don't have loads of strong evidence or any kind of pattern of criminality. There aren't 15 bodies buried in their back gardens.

I'd agree that at the moment where you just have the binary choice, you couldn't justify it.

[otolith]

E63eeeeee... said:

reasonable doubt, to beyond any doubt

What’s the difference between these two? Is anything beyond unreasonable doubt? “The crown fabricated all of the evidence” is an unreasonable doubt.

The question now put to juries is whether they are “satisfied that you are sure that the Defendant is guilty”. It’s binary and atomic. If they are not as sure as it is possible to be, they must acquit. If you were to try to introduce a higher level of sureness, it would be necessary to acquit those not reaching it. You’re sure or you’re not.

[jdw100]

I’ve always thought that we should give prisoners a choice.

I have little interest in a 20 year or life sentence.

Family visits, child growing up with daddy in a prison, the boredom, becoming old and infirm in a prison etc etc.

I’d rather get my affairs in order and call it a day.

Doesn’t have to be the absolute barbaric American revenge system.

The administration of a general anaesthetic and then something to stop your heart. Two friends of mine (both Dutch) have had a parent go this route. Very peaceful.

Maybe give lifers the option once a year or whenever they are ready.

Obviously no innocent person would take that route. Well, its unlikely anyway.

[Enut]

No one ever brings up the number of innocent people killed by convicted murderers who are released from prison or even killed while they are in prison. The numbers are many, many times more than the number of wrongly convicted people executed. Every time we end the life of a convicted murderer we extinguish the risk of them committing another murder, as well as savings hundreds of thousands that would be needed in order to keep them incarcerated.

In the UK it's a waste of time debating it anyway, the death penalty is never going to be brought back.

[119]

Well, considering most people voted in favour, whats your point OP?