Are the sloping kerbs part or a driveway

[mrmarcus]

For example, typical 2.4m residential property vehicle crossing over a footpath- are the sloping kerbs / transition kerbs part of the crossing? If you are parking on the road, can you park to the bottom of the sloping kerb or the top part of the sloping kerb?

Its hard to get a definitive answer to this, I've searched and every time some people say they are and others say they are not. Googling it, You would think it would be clearly defined somewhere but i haven’t found it yet.

So, does anyone know for sure and what is your reference? Thank you.

Edit to add- highway code rule 243 does not define it neither does traffic management act.

Edited by mrmarcus on Thursday 20th June 09:31

Edited by mrmarcus on Thursday 20th June 15:28

[Tigerj]

Is the exact starting point really that important? As long as sufficient room is left for people to get on and off the driveway and not parked like a spanner, why does it matter if someone parks on the top or bottom of the slope.

[davek_964]

In most places you're not allowed to park on the pavement. If the pavement slopes to allow access to the driveway, it's still the pavement

[i4got]

davek_964 said:

In most places you're not allowed to park on the pavement. If the pavement slopes to allow access to the driveway, it's still the pavement

Think he means parking on the road alongside the sloping kerb stones.

[WrekinCrew]

davek_964 said:

In most places you're not allowed to park on the pavement.

I thought that only applied in London (unless specifically signed otherwise).

[Mammasaid]

i4got said:

davek_964 said:

In most places you're not allowed to park on the pavement. If the pavement slopes to allow access to the driveway, it's still the pavement

Think he means parking on the road alongside the sloping kerb stones.

Drop kerbs is the standard term used for these, and yes, they are considered part of the footway crossing.

[mrmarcus]

If theres no other spaces on a street and If room is tight at a particular spot, it matters. It will mean the difference between coming back to your car and to a ticket or not!

Tigerj said:

Is the exact starting point really that important? As long as sufficient room is left for people to get on and off the driveway and not parked like a spanner, why does it matter if someone parks on the top or bottom of the slope.

[Freddie Fitch]

Mammasaid said:

i4got said:

davek_964 said:

In most places you're not allowed to park on the pavement. If the pavement slopes to allow access to the driveway, it's still the pavement

Think he means parking on the road alongside the sloping kerb stones.

Drop kerbs is the standard term used for these, and yes, they are considered part of the footway crossing.

And I thought he was talking about the kerb stones at each end of the drop kerb to transition between full height kerb stones and the drop kerb stones.

[mrmarcus]

Im talking about parking on the road and how close to the drop kerb you can park - top of the sloping kerb or bottom.

davek_964 said:

In most places you're not allowed to park on the pavement. If the pavement slopes to allow access to the driveway, it's still the pavement

[mrmarcus]

Yeah in London sometimes( maybe other places too?) you can park on footpaths, but it is very clearly signposted if you can. But this topic is nothing to do with parking on pavements.

Mammasaid said:

Drop kerbs is the standard term used for these, and yes, they are considered part of the footway crossing.

[mrmarcus]

Yes - parking on the road of course.

“… they are considered part of the footway crossing..” thats the whole point of my question? Considered by who?, and where is it defined?

Freddie Fitch said:

Mammasaid said:

i4got said:

davek_964 said:

In most places you're not allowed to park on the pavement. If the pavement slopes to allow access to the driveway, it's still the pavement

Think he means parking on the road alongside the sloping kerb stones.

Drop kerbs is the standard term used for these, and yes, they are considered part of the footway crossing.

And I thought he was talking about the kerb stones at each end of the drop kerb to transition between full height kerb stones and the drop kerb stones.

[Tigerj]

mrmarcus said:

In that case make sure it’s within the marked bays. The council will only only issue con’s for a breaching a TRO and the posted parking restrictions.

It would be police that deal with obstruction of the highway. As long as you are not parked like a moron, I would be shocked if you could find a police officer who bothered to issue anything.

London has different rules so it may vary there.

[mrmarcus]

And when theres no road markings ?

Police don't deal with someone blocking your drive as its not a crime. Council can issue a fine though.

Tigerj said:

mrmarcus said:

In that case make sure it’s within the marked bays. The council will only only issue con’s for a breaching a TRO and the posted parking restrictions.

It would be police that deal with obstruction of the highway. As long as you are not parked like a moron, I would be shocked if you could find a police officer who bothered to issue anything.

London has different rules so it may vary there.

[PhilboSE]

The Traffic Management Act 2004 states that parking across dropped kerbs is enforceable with a fine in a Special Enforcement Area (SEA). An SEA is one where the council has taken in responsibility for traffic/parking enforcement, which is now most of them across England.

However many are not familiar with this or haven’t instructed their Civil Enforcement Officers to issue fines for parking across dropped kerbs - but you can request that they do.

Some dropped kerbs have a white line with T-bars at either end which are non/enforceable in themselves but are supposed to draw attention to the dropped kerb, which is.

To come back to the OP, I don’t know about the law, but the white line across my dropped kerb covers the entire length of the slopes of the kerb risers and then some - probably for visibility / access splay. So I would say that the risers probably form part of the dropped kerb in general and you shouldn’t park alongside them.

FYIs the emergency services, the person with access across the dropped kerb, or anyone parked their with permission of that person, can legally park across the dropped kerb itself.

[Racing Newt]

mrmarcus said:

I do know someone who had a visit from the police and were issued a caution for anti-social behaviour, causing alarm and distress for parking across a drive, (there was no vehicle on the drive at the time he did), so it can be said the Poilce will take action.

[Racing Newt]

Racing Newt said:

mrmarcus said:

And when theres no road markings ?

Police don't deal with someone blocking your drive as its not a crime. Council can issue a fine though.

I do know someone who had a visit from the police and were issued a caution for anti-social behaviour, causing alarm and distress for parking across a drive, (there was no vehicle on the drive at the time he did), so it can be said the Police will take action.

[mrmarcus]

Im familiar with the traffic management act, and to me the wording implies the bottom of the sloped kerbs.

But its a simple question everyone should know, how close can you park to a drop kerb, blue or red as marked on pic in op.

My question is just is it red or blue that you can park to, its not clear anywhere I can find yet.

PhilboSE said:

The Traffic Management Act 2004 states that parking across dropped kerbs is enforceable with a fine in a Special Enforcement Area (SEA). An SEA is one where the council has taken in responsibility for traffic/parking enforcement, which is now most of them across England.

However many are not familiar with this or haven’t instructed their Civil Enforcement Officers to issue fines for parking across dropped kerbs - but you can request that they do.

Some dropped kerbs have a white line with T-bars at either end which are non/enforceable in themselves but are supposed to draw attention to the dropped kerb, which is.

To come back to the OP, I don’t know about the law, but the white line across my dropped kerb covers the entire length of the slopes of the kerb risers and then some - probably for visibility / access splay. So I would say that the risers probably form part of the dropped kerb in general and you shouldn’t park alongside them.

FYIs the emergency services, the person with access across the dropped kerb, or anyone parked their with permission of that person, can legally park across the dropped kerb itself.

Edited by mrmarcus on Thursday 20th June 15:29

Edited by mrmarcus on Thursday 20th June 15:30

Edited by mrmarcus on Thursday 20th June 15:36

[joropug]

What are the odds, literally watched this video earlier of the exact situation.

Are you the driver or the homeowner ?

https://youtu.be/pHuoEIRxew4?si=22M4XTbTz0LPKNDM

[PhilboSE]

mrmarcus said:

Im familiar with the traffic management act, and to me the wording implies the bottom of the sloped kerbs.

I don’t agree. I think the statement is defining what a dropped kerb is, not the area that is enforceable. It’s ambiguous in that regard.

mrmarcus said:

But it’s a simple question everyone should know, how close can you park to a drop kerb, blue or red as marked on pic below.

I’m not sure that “everyone should know” as it’s out the outer edge of the envelope of typical day to day issues. And, as this thread has highlighted, it seems that no-one dies “know” and the relevant law is non-specific. But a white line painted on the road in my case includes the sloping kerbs, so that’s at least one official interpretation where you shouldn’t park.

However, as noted above, it would not be reasonable to park alongside them if it prevented someone from being able to effectively use the dropped kerb for access. In a busy residential road with cars parked on both sides of the carriageway, it could be made impossible to use the dropped kerb at all if cars were parked all the way along the sloping kerbs on both sides.

Are you favouring the interpretation of parking along the sloping kerb for a particular reason?

[mrmarcus]

Looking for an answer to a simple question in the op.

Are you allowed to Park up to the red lines or blue lines in the op pic? And if you have an answer, What is your source? The thred is as simple as that!

CheesecakeRunner said:

mrmarcus said:

And when theres no road markings ?

Police don't deal with someone blocking your drive as its not a crime. Council can issue a fine though.

Ignoring legalities for a moment, I’ve always thought leaving your car somewhere where you’ve pissed someone off by making it harder for them to get in and out of their drive is asking for trouble.

How about not worrying about whether you can legally cover the dropped bit of a kerb, how about just try not to be a dick about where you park?