NIP but no speed given... Please help/advise

[mrmarkyb]

Hi all

Embarrassingly I could do with a bit of legal advice...

A few weeks ago, I got caught exceeding the limit in a 50... I had forgotten it wasn't a 60 if I'm honest, and had been riding defensively to protect myself from the weekend warrior out to prove a point on his Ducati 1098 (couldn't keep up with me on the bends ironically, but sailed past me on double white lines on a straight road literally just before the point where I got clocked speeding).

I got sent this...



I admitted I was riding the bike of course, and then got sent this...



Nowhere does it say how fast I was actually going. Truth being told, I know I was exceeding 50mph, but honestly don't know by how much. I would be surprised if it was by more than 10mph anyway... I had forgotten it was a 50 but was genuinely more concerned for the fact an idiot on a Ducati had just gone blasting past on a solid white line...

The other concern is that nowhere does it state to offer me a speed awareness course (It was 12 years ago I last went on one). I thought that they always did this as an alternative to 3pts for anyone with a clean license...?

Any help/advice appreciated.

[wc98]

I might be reading it wrong but it looks like they have sent you a NIP that you haven't seen/received that would have had the speed written on it. The letter you have responded to was the letter stating the above, hence no speed on it.

Just look at it as a go faster tax. You pay a bit extra and get the odd set of 3 points for the privilege

[Pincher]

You won’t get a SAC if you are too far over the theoretical 10%+2mph AIUI, so if you were doing 60mph, it’s not even offered.

Edited by Pincher on Tuesday 18th June 22:01

[mrmarkyb]

wc98 said:

I might be reading it wrong but it looks like they have sent you a NIP that you haven't seen/received that would have had the speed written on it. The letter you have responded to was the letter stating the above, hence no speed on it.

Just look at it as a go faster tax. You pay a bit extra and get the odd set of 3 points for the privilege

Whilst that was a reminder sent (I posted my response to the original, turns out it got lost in the post of course! I even emailed them to ask had they received it, so emailed the response to the reminder as well as posting it to make sure)... The original said nothing different to the reminder, certainly no speed was given...

As for the go faster tax bit... Genuinely I wouldn't be upset had I ben wilfully speeding. I had been desperately trying to keep my distance from the dangerous idiot on the Ducati behind me only moments before and had not seen the 50mph limit signs (since confirmed partially hidden by trees when I went back down the road in my van). I know that this is no defence as far as the law goes, but you can understand my frustration... Besides, I genuinely don't know what speed I was doing... I was riding safely and defensively and as an Advanced Rider, didn't consider my speed to be an issue given the circumstances.

[Sebring440]

mrmarkyb said:

I was riding safely and defensively and as an Advanced Rider, didn't consider my speed to be an issue given the circumstances.

But whether YOU consider your speed to be an issue is not for you to decide.

[dibblecorse]

So why didn't roll off when the faster bike passed you? How is his behaviour relevant to your speeding?

[I am alright Jack]

Pincher said:

You won’t get a SAC if you are too far over the theoretical 10%+2mph AIUI, so if you were doing 60mph, it’s not even offered.

Edited by Pincher on Tuesday 18th June 22:01

Within Speed limit + 10% + 9mph for a course to be offered, I believe.

[martinbiz]

I am alright Jack said:

Pincher said:

You won’t get a SAC if you are too far over the theoretical 10%+2mph AIUI, so if you were doing 60mph, it’s not even offered.

Edited by Pincher on Tuesday 18th June 22:01

Within Speed limit + 10% + 9mph for a course to be offered, I believe.

Correct, up to and including 10% + 9

[Leptons]

The speed will be on the 1st letter you received/didn’t receive.

If a Speed awareness course was available it would have been offered…

[JagLad]

The offence is exceeding the speed limit. By how much is only relevant for offering an out-of-court option or for sentencing in court.

If you were not offered a course, but offered a fixed penalty, this would suggest the speed recorded was between 65mph and 75mph. If you want to find out the exact speed you can decline (or ignore) the fixed penalty offer. You will then be prosecuted in court where the police will provide you with the evidence they will rely on to convict you. This will almost certainly include evidence of the recorded speed.

Of course by then the offer of a fixed penalty will be off the table and you will be sentenced according to the magistrates' sentencing guidelines. You would pay an income related fine, a surcharge of 40% of that fine and prosecution costs of about £90.

Edited by JagLad on Wednesday 19th June 08:49

[BertBert]

So you have your answer. You did the offence, you have the punishment, what is your question?

[normalbloke]

BertBert said:

So you have your answer. You did the offence, you have the punishment, what is your question?

No idea, but the response will no doubt involve a mention or three of the Ducati rider in some sort of misguided mitigation ….

[Vasco]

normalbloke said:

BertBert said:

So you have your answer. You did the offence, you have the punishment, what is your question?

No idea, but the response will no doubt involve a mention or three of the Ducati rider in some sort of misguided mitigation ….

Quite - I've been trying to work out why an experienced rider, exceeding the 50mph speed limit, seems far more concerned with another rider.
If he doesn't realise that the speed limit is 50 (and he drives more like 65-70) - AND he's concentrating on another vehicle it really makes you wonder how experienced he is.

[Desiderata]

mrmarkyb said:

had not seen the 50mph limit signs (since confirmed partially hidden by trees when I went back down the road in my van). I know that this is no defence .

Don't know about that, I got a "not guilty" verdict a few years ago because speed limit signs were obscured.
(Although the court appearances cost me more than the fine would have been)

[Ken_Code]

You don’t ride defensively by racing with another bike in a 50mph limit.

The sensible response if you feel that someone else is trying to race is to slow down and let them go.

[Vtekkers]

Ive got a letter like the first picture no speed but caught in excess of ** ,

i have sent the letter off about 3 weeks ago and have not herd anything back, then another letter came yesterday Final Reminder with the same details on so looks like they did not receive the letter back, still don't know the speed i was caught at was on way to the Raven for the first time and some bikes were whizzing past at some speeds,

[Pincher]

martinbiz said:

I am alright Jack said:

Pincher said:

You won’t get a SAC if you are too far over the theoretical 10%+2mph AIUI, so if you were doing 60mph, it’s not even offered.

Edited by Pincher on Tuesday 18th June 22:01

Within Speed limit + 10% + 9mph for a course to be offered, I believe.

Correct, up to and including 10% + 9

I stand corrected

What is the threshold for 40mph llimits? I didn't get offered one for 47 a couple of years back.

[SS2.]

Pincher said:

What is the threshold for 40mph llimits? I didn't get offered one for 47 a couple of years back.

53mph.

Worth noting that even if qualifying criteria are met, the offer of a course (as opposed to a fine and points) is an option for the relevant authority - it's not mandatory.

[Pincher]

That's a bummer - oh well, it's done and dusted now so no point worrying about it.

[BertBert]

Pincher said:

That's a bummer - oh well, it's done and dusted now so no point worrying about it.

But it does mean that you still have the possibility to do one should the need arise (limit+10%+9) and you get offered one (which doesn't happen in Scotland).