Parking Charge - 9 Minutes

[Alex_225]

Had a nice little holiday down in Devon with the family back in May, hired a 9 seater as my mum came with us. Received a letter through today from Civil Enforcement Ltd telling me I had a £100 charge for the following reason,

"Payment not made in accordance with the notified terms" and that's it.

Now luckily I kept all of our parking tickets from the trip as I'm generally pretty mindful about these things and wanted to cover myself. So I have found the ticket which shows I had paid until 13:19 and the photograph of us leaving was at 13:28, so we overstayed by 9 minutes. Part of the reason for the hold up was that my mum is undergoing cancer treatment and found it a bit harder/slower getting back to the car than planned. It wasn't merely an oversight or not being bothered to get back in time.

I have appealed through their website and after numerous attempts, I realise the postcode is wrong so it couldn't find our PCN but since has and I have appealed. It didn't give me any option to input information, or upload a ticket or explain anything just said it's submitted.

Do I have grounds for an appeal? It does say that if I'm not happy with the result of the appeal I can submit through POPLA but if they don't revoke it, then I'm due the full £100 rather than the £60 if I pay within 14 days.

I'm expecting most to say, 'Suck it up and pay' but hey we all make minor mistakes and live in the hope that that's aknowledged.

[sherbertdip]

Alex_225 said:

Had a nice little holiday down in Devon with the family back in May, hired a 9 seater as my mum came with us. Received a letter through today from Civil Enforcement Ltd telling me I had a £100 charge for the following reason,

"Payment not made in accordance with the notified terms" and that's it.

Now luckily I kept all of our parking tickets from the trip as I'm generally pretty mindful about these things and wanted to cover myself. So I have found the ticket which shows I had paid until 13:19 and the photograph of us leaving was at 13:28, so we overstayed by 9 minutes. Part of the reason for the hold up was that my mum is undergoing cancer treatment and found it a bit harder/slower getting back to the car than planned. It wasn't merely an oversight or not being bothered to get back in time.

I have appealed through their website and after numerous attempts, I realise the postcode is wrong so it couldn't find our PCN but since has and I have appealed. It didn't give me any option to input information, or upload a ticket or explain anything just said it's submitted.

Do I have grounds for an appeal? It does say that if I'm not happy with the result of the appeal I can submit through POPLA but if they don't revoke it, then I'm due the full £100 rather than the £60 if I pay within 14 days.

I'm expecting most to say, 'Suck it up and pay' but hey we all make minor mistakes and live in the hope that that's aknowledged.

I don't doubt that it was a mistake for reasons, but you did overstay in breach of the "conditions of contract" so are liable. However, why don't you just appeal and see what the outcome is and if still not happy do as they suggest and go through POPLA, risking the extra £40. Nobody here can see into the future for you.

As an aside I appealed a parking fine (double yellows) and appealed to South Yorkshire Police as I was taking a friend with a cast on his leg to the railway station, that appeal was granted. This is way before cameras and companies etc, just people doing their jobs.

[Alex_225]

Agreed, 9 minutes is 9 minutes but at the same time £100 is a lot of money for not even 10 minutes and I wondered if there was any kind of grace period granted.

Having a quick look at the CAB website there are a few considerations that can be made:

"The Equality Act 2010 means you must be treated with understanding and can’t be discriminated against, so the ticket should be cancelled." - Whether that applies to a passenger or not I don't know.

They also reference a 'grace period' - "You should be given a few minutes after your parking runs out – called a ‘grace period’. ATA members must give you an extra 10 minutes".

So despite it being a mistake, it's not entirely unreasonable for it to be considered. I wondered if anyone else had had similar.

[DaveA8]

In case you appeal, so you don't give them ammo, the 10 minutes grace is typically from when you enter and say for example can't find a space or you didn't have change etc, it's not an extension.
I only say this as if you were to use that, it might not be appropriate or seen as relevant but this is only my experience so may be a sample of one.

[Dave Finney]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

The appeals have not held, or the charges have not held?

[Alex_225]

DaveA8 said:

In case you appeal, so you don't give them ammo, the 10 minutes grace is typically from when you enter and say for example can't find a space or you didn't have change etc, it's not an extension.
I only say this as if you were to use that, it might not be appropriate or seen as relevant but this is only my experience so may be a sample of one.

Thank you that's good to know and appreciated advice.

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Thank you. I've only ever appealed one parking ticket as if I've made a mistake and it's obvious, I'll hold my hands up. The one time I had a charge revoked was when I'd bought the ticket, stuck it to the screen but remember at the time thinking it didn't feel as sticky as usual. It fell off during the day and was in the footwell. I showed proof of the ticket.

The most frustrating was the same carpark (used daily for work at the time), I paid my £10.40 for the day, the amount clearly shown on the ticket but the time misprinted and I didn't know. So where it should have expired at 18:00 as paid for the entire day, it was 12:00 and I didn't spot it. Despite paying the correct amount, it was apparently my fault, I should have bought another ticket and claimed that cost back from them.

[Pica-Pica]

Doesn’t the 10 minute grace period only apply to council parking sites/bays?
By all means appeal, but to me the issue about slowness of a passenger is known to you beforehand, so not really grounds for appeal.

[Alex_225]

Pica-Pica said:

Doesn’t the 10 minute grace period only apply to council parking sites/bays?
By all means appeal, but to me the issue about slowness of a passenger is known to you beforehand, so not really grounds for appeal.

CAB says about members of the ATA, but I don't know if this lot are part of that or not. Website is a vague as these company sites usually seem to be.

I suspect it'll be declined but you can only hope that there is a slightly human element to it where they'd go, 'We understand, these things happen' as we weren't out there taking the p!ss overstaying for what I would say is a mistaken amount of time not brazenly not caring.

[Alex_225]

EmailAddress said:

Did it take you 9 minutes to navigate from your paid for space, past all the geriatrics, potholes, dead partridges, and so on to the the exit...

Perhaps that jackknifed caravan also encumbered the expedience with which you traversed past the final ANPR camera.

Don't you hate it when adverse weather conditions preclude timely expedition from private property.

I'm sure you did your best and were wheels in motion after your alloted time expired.

Thanks for the unnecessarily sarcastic post.

And as for my reason, just my mum being on chemo as my 'excuse'. Cheers.

[Solocle]

Alex_225 said:

CAB says about members of the ATA, but I don't know if this lot are part of that or not. Website is a vague as these company sites usually seem to be.

I suspect it'll be declined but you can only hope that there is a slightly human element to it where they'd go, 'We understand, these things happen' as we weren't out there taking the p!ss overstaying for what I would say is a mistaken amount of time not brazenly not caring.

A private parking company must be a member of an ATA in order to be granted access to the DVLA database.

There's only one ATA - the BPA (British Parking Association).

In theory, if they pursue you for less than 10 minutes, then they can't look up your address from your licence plate.

And the BPA code of practice is quite clear - it's a grace period after time runs out, not for deciding not to park there.
BPA code of practice

[twing]

Alex_225 said:

Thanks for the unnecessarily sarcastic post.

And as for my reason, just my mum being on chemo as my 'excuse'. Cheers.

I'm pretty sure he was trying to help rather than being sarcastic

[Alex_225]

Solocle said:

In theory, if they pursue you for less than 10 minutes, then they can't look up your address from your licence plate.

Thank you, that's a really helpful reply and link.

So in theory, if you take 5 minutes to park and get your ticket, then overstay by 6 minutes, they've got you. It would have taken me a couple of minutes to get parked up, so perhaps that's it.

[Alex_225]

twing said:

Alex_225 said:

Thanks for the unnecessarily sarcastic post.

And as for my reason, just my mum being on chemo as my 'excuse'. Cheers.

I'm pretty sure he was trying to help rather than being sarcastic

I'm not usually oversensitive but have a re-read of that post as there was literally nothing other than sarcasm in that reply, which is pretty unnecessary considering my reasons.

"Don't you hate it when adverse weather conditions preclude timely expedition from private property."

That's not a dig at you mate, but I didn't find that post I quote particularly kind, constructive or pleasant. Of course I'd rather be wrong on that and have merely taken it the wrong way.

[OutInTheShed]

Did the OP pay by app?

AIUI, no grace period with an app, but you can extend your payment should you need to.

Some people of course will just hope to get away with not paying for the extra 10 minutes or whatever.

[Dashnine]

Good luck with the 10 minutes grace, that should work in your favour but otherwise I feel it’s tough luck, you overstayed the period you’d paid for.

Does there need to be a full list of extenuating circumstances that allow you to stay longer, and for how long per circumstance?

[21TonyK]

OP, I successfully appealed against parkingeye via POPLA. I had a reasonably cast iron excuse but that aside the process takes 10 minutes if you think its worth a go. I would for 9 minutes given your Mums circumstances. Good luck with it.

[Alex Z]

Alex_225 said:

twing said:

Alex_225 said:

Thanks for the unnecessarily sarcastic post.

And as for my reason, just my mum being on chemo as my 'excuse'. Cheers.

I'm pretty sure he was trying to help rather than being sarcastic

I'm not usually oversensitive but have a re-read of that post as there was literally nothing other than sarcasm in that reply, which is pretty unnecessary considering my reasons.

"Don't you hate it when adverse weather conditions preclude timely expedition from private property."

That's not a dig at you mate, but I didn't find that post I quote particularly kind, constructive or pleasant. Of course I'd rather be wrong on that and have merely taken it the wrong way.

It was very obviously suggesting a number of plausible explanations for the delay in leaving the site, that you might want to use when appealing the charge.

[Pica-Pica]

Dashnine said:

Good luck with the 10 minutes grace, that should work in your favour but otherwise I feel it’s tough luck, you overstayed the period you’d paid for.

Does there need to be a full list of extenuating circumstances that allow you to stay longer, and for how long per circumstance?

I would imagine the circumstances would have to be unforeseeable, and urgent.
My wife had a medical emergency, ambulance called. I had to call and collect her, take her home, monitor her, and collect her car the next day. So that was certainly 18 hours overstay, and was accepted on appeal)

[ssray]

Work out what 10 minutes parking would be and send a cheque, if they return it then you have attempted to pay.

If they then deny your appeal and it went as far as court this would be in your favour and the judge would want to know why the other party are waisting court time

[Mr. Jimmy]

Alex Z said:

It was very obviously suggesting a number of plausible explanations for the delay in leaving the site, that you might want to use when appealing the charge.

How Op has misread this so badly is difficult to figure out.