Can a surveyor used by our neighbour take us to court?
Discussion
Hello
In a nutshell, we appointed a surveyor for a third party agreement for our building work, our neighbour decided to appoint their own, a cost to us. Our surveyor has disputed their costs , they are excessive and we are willing to pay once resolved.
However, the neighbours surveyor has cut communication with our surveyor over querying the bill and has now sent a court claim MCOL for the outstanding amount, even though we have no contract with him.
For information, we got the party wall agreement after he said he was going to a third surveyor due to delays and unreasonable requests, as I said we are willing to pay once resolved but they dont have a contract with us an we will pay once their costs are deemed reasonable by our surveyor.
He has also sent a MCOL to me and my wife for the amount so in effect claiming twice, what would be the best way to handle this?
In a nutshell, we appointed a surveyor for a third party agreement for our building work, our neighbour decided to appoint their own, a cost to us. Our surveyor has disputed their costs , they are excessive and we are willing to pay once resolved.
However, the neighbours surveyor has cut communication with our surveyor over querying the bill and has now sent a court claim MCOL for the outstanding amount, even though we have no contract with him.
For information, we got the party wall agreement after he said he was going to a third surveyor due to delays and unreasonable requests, as I said we are willing to pay once resolved but they dont have a contract with us an we will pay once their costs are deemed reasonable by our surveyor.
He has also sent a MCOL to me and my wife for the amount so in effect claiming twice, what would be the best way to handle this?
I know how I would handle this...
To form a contract there has to be the three elements; offer, acceptance and consideration.
If there was never an offer there can be no contract or obligation to pay.
For the MCOL (not sure of the procedure), insist the claimer produces evidence of an offer (which could be verbal) ie estimate or quote.
Without this the claim(s) should fail.
Personally I would not be offering to pay any money at all - this scam artist should learn some manners (as well as some law)
Your first port of call should be back to your surveyor as they will have handled this, if this is party wall related then the agreement will have a clause about disputes.
The poster who talks about offer and acceptance etc might be missing a point since the act will possibly override this.
Whatever you choose to do, you must respond and defend the money claim as otherwise they’ll get a default judgment and that’s just more cost to resolve.
I know everyone says about letters posts etc but I’d definitely pay the few £ for a recorded delivery and if they’ve emailed or you have their email address, copy that in and make sure the court record online show your defence is logged
Do not ignore nor just hand to your surveyor, at the very least ensure you have lodged that defence even if the surveyor isn’t clear
The poster who talks about offer and acceptance etc might be missing a point since the act will possibly override this.
Whatever you choose to do, you must respond and defend the money claim as otherwise they’ll get a default judgment and that’s just more cost to resolve.
I know everyone says about letters posts etc but I’d definitely pay the few £ for a recorded delivery and if they’ve emailed or you have their email address, copy that in and make sure the court record online show your defence is logged
Do not ignore nor just hand to your surveyor, at the very least ensure you have lodged that defence even if the surveyor isn’t clear
If you intend to do work on a party wall, the other party is entitled to appoint a surveyor at your cost, so I'm afraid you can't complain about having to pay for the surveyor. That's the law and that what everyone has to do. It's not a special favour you're doing to your neighbour.
Surveyors, like other professionals, are expensive. Specialist surveyors, such as party wall surveyors can be eye wateringly expensive. It's part of the cost of doing work on a party wall. Sorting out party wall matters frequently cost in the region of thousands rather than hundreds of £.
Whether you have a contract with them or not is irrelevant by now as they've carried out the work and you're liable for their fee under the PWA. I'd either pay or turn up to the magistrates with a tub of vaseline to make the outcome easier to bear.
Surveyors, like other professionals, are expensive. Specialist surveyors, such as party wall surveyors can be eye wateringly expensive. It's part of the cost of doing work on a party wall. Sorting out party wall matters frequently cost in the region of thousands rather than hundreds of £.
Whether you have a contract with them or not is irrelevant by now as they've carried out the work and you're liable for their fee under the PWA. I'd either pay or turn up to the magistrates with a tub of vaseline to make the outcome easier to bear.
QuickQuack said:
If you intend to do work on a party wall, the other party is entitled to appoint a surveyor at your cost, so I'm afraid you can't complain about having to pay for the surveyor. That's the law and that what everyone has to do. It's not a special favour you're doing to your neighbour.
Surveyors, like other professionals, are expensive. Specialist surveyors, such as party wall surveyors can be eye wateringly expensive. It's part of the cost of doing work on a party wall. Sorting out party wall matters frequently cost in the region of thousands rather than hundreds of £.
Whether you have a contract with them or not is irrelevant by now as they've carried out the work and you're liable for their fee under the PWA. I'd either pay or turn up to the magistrates with a tub of vaseline to make the outcome easier to bear.
First there is a Disputes procedure in place and secondly, it's a County Court mostly likely online not a Magistrates Court. Surveyors, like other professionals, are expensive. Specialist surveyors, such as party wall surveyors can be eye wateringly expensive. It's part of the cost of doing work on a party wall. Sorting out party wall matters frequently cost in the region of thousands rather than hundreds of £.
Whether you have a contract with them or not is irrelevant by now as they've carried out the work and you're liable for their fee under the PWA. I'd either pay or turn up to the magistrates with a tub of vaseline to make the outcome easier to bear.
Surveyors cannot arbitrarily and without review decide to their fees, there is a band that is acceptable. I recall a 3rd Surveyor may be asked.
Also we do not know the amounts or amount of work involved.
Responder.First said:
They have failed to follow the Pre action protocol for a start this seems an attempt to bully you into paying up.
Courts do not take kindly to this in my experience.
IME whilst it's true they've failed to comply in practical terms it's likely to make no difference at all to the claim progressing. Small claims assumes the parties involved are pretty much hopeless and inexperienced.Courts do not take kindly to this in my experience.
Durzel said:
IME whilst it's true they've failed to comply in practical terms it's likely to make no difference at all to the claim progressing. Small claims assumes the parties involved are pretty much hopeless and inexperienced.
'I have had a judge take issue not sure your experience, but the clues in the name 'Pre-action'.
It appears no Letter Before Claim has been sent, the paper trial behind the claim would not stand up and therefore any cost claims would be disputed. As you say would they throw it out on the basis, unlikely, but the Judge will most likely see it for what it is 'a shakedown' .
Why would they get costs when they failed to avoid them in the first place?
As already covered where is his/her offer, how have they formed a contract with offer and consideration, I can't see they want to go to court its like PPC who are trying to bully but don't really want their day in court.
If I issue a MCOL no matter how ridiculous it’s likely I’ll get a judgment if the other party doesn’t bother responding, doing anything with that judgment will probably be difficult. That’s why I said to make sure they reply with any defence because a default judgment whilst capable of having it stuck out is a cost and the court will be not very generous in allowing this since it’s sort a self inflicted cost.
This is a “dressing the file”, write to all parties exclaiming your horror how its come to this, saying you’ll pay but not under the unreasonable threat of a mcol and that the amounts claimed are excessive and reasonable.
You can do all this whilst replying to the mcol
The issue is that a debt clearly exists as its party wall so it comes down to the amounts and as I say, there is something a provision for assessing them and your surveyor should know that process
The whole thing is 1/2 hour to bounce back
This is a “dressing the file”, write to all parties exclaiming your horror how its come to this, saying you’ll pay but not under the unreasonable threat of a mcol and that the amounts claimed are excessive and reasonable.
You can do all this whilst replying to the mcol
The issue is that a debt clearly exists as its party wall so it comes down to the amounts and as I say, there is something a provision for assessing them and your surveyor should know that process
The whole thing is 1/2 hour to bounce back
Responder.First said:
Durzel said:
IME whilst it's true they've failed to comply in practical terms it's likely to make no difference at all to the claim progressing. Small claims assumes the parties involved are pretty much hopeless and inexperienced.
'I have had a judge take issue not sure your experience, but the clues in the name 'Pre-action'.
It appears no Letter Before Claim has been sent, the paper trial behind the claim would not stand up and therefore any cost claims would be disputed. As you say would they throw it out on the basis, unlikely, but the Judge will most likely see it for what it is 'a shakedown' .
Why would they get costs when they failed to avoid them in the first place?
As already covered where is his/her offer, how have they formed a contract with offer and consideration, I can't see they want to go to court its like PPC who are trying to bully but don't really want their day in court.
Thanks all, there is advice I will take up, and some information from our surveyor below:-
"The Award does not specify his fee, and it is clearly on record that his fee is disputed by me.
He has swerved answering my specific concerns about the irregularities in his timesheet on several occasions, taking the rather bizarre action of asking a Tax Expert to analyse his time and fee, concluding his fee claimed is lower than it should be.
He has no contract with you, so I am not clear how he intends to pursue a claim for a specific amount."
The agreement was awarded after our surveyor was going to use a 3rd surveyor due to excessive delays and bizarre demands. A third surveyor would mean our neighbour would have to pay for his surveyor, not us, and we would pay the third surveyors fees.
As I said, we will pay once our surveyor says the fee is acceptable and does not contain irreagularities . I will dispute the MCOL and await, in answer to someones question about location, he's based in Colchester.
Thanks again all.
"The Award does not specify his fee, and it is clearly on record that his fee is disputed by me.
He has swerved answering my specific concerns about the irregularities in his timesheet on several occasions, taking the rather bizarre action of asking a Tax Expert to analyse his time and fee, concluding his fee claimed is lower than it should be.
He has no contract with you, so I am not clear how he intends to pursue a claim for a specific amount."
The agreement was awarded after our surveyor was going to use a 3rd surveyor due to excessive delays and bizarre demands. A third surveyor would mean our neighbour would have to pay for his surveyor, not us, and we would pay the third surveyors fees.
As I said, we will pay once our surveyor says the fee is acceptable and does not contain irreagularities . I will dispute the MCOL and await, in answer to someones question about location, he's based in Colchester.
Thanks again all.
Edited by Factualist on Tuesday 11th June 17:35
I had similar with mine
Neighbour's surveyor went AWOL for weeks. He delayed the start by about a month.
I asked him to review his fees in view of this. I asked for 10% reduction. He came back threatening all sorts and said I could have 5% if I paid today
I ended up paying that day
In the scheme of things, just pay and get on with your life. These guys do this for a living. You do this in your spare time.
Use your time for something else
s like him usually get found out
Neighbour's surveyor went AWOL for weeks. He delayed the start by about a month.
I asked him to review his fees in view of this. I asked for 10% reduction. He came back threatening all sorts and said I could have 5% if I paid today
I ended up paying that day
In the scheme of things, just pay and get on with your life. These guys do this for a living. You do this in your spare time.
Use your time for something else
s like him usually get found out Factualist said:
...taking the rather bizarre action of asking a Tax Expert to analyse his time and fee, concluding his fee claimed is lower than it should be...
"Taxing" fees (at least legal fees, so I assume to be the case here) is to provide an independent adjudication on their reasonableness - rather than check they've calculated their VAT correctly.sleepezy said:
Factualist said:
...taking the rather bizarre action of asking a Tax Expert to analyse his time and fee, concluding his fee claimed is lower than it should be...
"Taxing" fees (at least legal fees, so I assume to be the case here) is to provide an independent adjudication on their reasonableness - rather than check they've calculated their VAT correctly.
Unless they were very knowledgeable about what Surveyors do how would an Accountant know what is/isn't reasonable for a Surveyor to charge?
It would be a bit like me taking my last service invoice to my accountant and asking him if the garage was ripping me off.
Countdown said:
sleepezy said:
Factualist said:
...taking the rather bizarre action of asking a Tax Expert to analyse his time and fee, concluding his fee claimed is lower than it should be...
"Taxing" fees (at least legal fees, so I assume to be the case here) is to provide an independent adjudication on their reasonableness - rather than check they've calculated their VAT correctly.Unless they were very knowledgeable about what Surveyors do how would an Accountant know what is/isn't reasonable for a Surveyor to charge?
It would be a bit like me taking my last service invoice to my accountant and asking him if the garage was ripping me off.
Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff