Is this an unfair T & C that could be unenforceable

Is this an unfair T & C that could be unenforceable

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E-bmw

Original Poster:

9,965 posts

159 months

Sunday 2nd June
quotequote all
Just wondering as per the title really.

Trying to keep it short as I can, but it isn't going to be easy.

Booked a Cunard cruise in January, took out insurance recommended by Cunard specifically. Mrs E had a Drs appointment in Feb & they need to do another check that is for something minor.

As per the insurance Ts & Cs we informed the insurance co of the change in circumstances & they said they can't now insure us as the procedure may find something worse.

Drs won't say we can't travel as there is no reason we can't travel, so won't sign for a medical cancellation insurance claim and the insurance co won't refund without this.

So it seems we may not be able to claim a deposit refund on the insurance.

This is the crucial part now.

Phoned Cunard Customer Svc & even though the cruise is full and they have a waiting list of stand bys (so by now 3 hours later they will have already sold our place and sold it for more money in all likelihood) they are refusing to show goodwill to refund the deposit as it is in contravention to the Ts & Cs.

Is it fair they can keep our money for free, as it doesn't feel very fair?

Edited by E-bmw on Sunday 2nd June 20:10

TwigtheWonderkid

44,654 posts

157 months

Sunday 2nd June
quotequote all
E-bmw said:
Just wondering as per the title really.


As per the insurance Ts & Cs we informed them of the change & they said they can't now insure us as the procedure may find something bigger.
One of the reasons you took out insurance is in case you couldn't go due to a medical issue. You now can't go because your insurance is to be pulled, due to a medical issue. Hence you now have a claim on the policy.

You need to call the insurers and demand to speak to someone senior, and tell them they either continue with the insurance so you can go, or accept the claim for cancellation due to a medical issue. I don't think they can have it both ways. Point out the insurance principle of proximate cause. The proximate cause of the claim is the medical issue, as their refusal to cover you is not a new and independent cause, it's because of the medical issue. Point out their obligations under TCF (treating customers fairly) regulations. Use that phrase, because in conjunction with proximate cause, it'll make it seem like you know what you're talking about even if you don't. If they don't play ball, ask them to send you full details of their complaints procedure that you need to go thru in order to be clear to refer the case to the ombudsman.





Edited by TwigtheWonderkid on Sunday 2nd June 19:41

E-bmw

Original Poster:

9,965 posts

159 months

Sunday 2nd June
quotequote all
Sorry, in trying to keep it short I have made it slightly ambiguous, I will now edit it accordingly.

Edited by E-bmw on Sunday 2nd June 20:10

5lab

1,713 posts

203 months

Sunday 2nd June
quotequote all
Can you get insurance with someone else?

Cunard can only legally keep their costs out of the deposit. On something like this I'd think that's maybe a couple of hundred pounds max

E-bmw

Original Poster:

9,965 posts

159 months

Sunday 2nd June
quotequote all
5lab said:
Can you get insurance with someone else?

Cunard can only legally keep their costs out of the deposit. On something like this I'd think that's maybe a couple of hundred pounds max
Cunard only recommend one so we have had to go with them, and I would imagine if we insure now it would be classed as a "pre-existing medical condition" which would make things much worse.

No, they are keeping the full deposit, in fact it is a good job we didn't pay in full up front as we normally would, who knows if they would be trying to keep that also.

Sheepshanks

34,979 posts

126 months

Sunday 2nd June
quotequote all
Just looked at the policy for Staysure, who we've used for last couple of trips, and under "Changes to your health" it says:

"If we are unable to continue to provide cover, or if you
do not wish to pay the additional premium you will be
entitled to make a claim under Section 1 (Cancellation)
for costs which cannot be recovered elsewhere for
trips booked prior to the change in health."

...which could only be as you'd expect. How can an insurer do anything else?

If you can't get hold of anyone sensible then I suppose you have to go through their complaints procedure and then the FOS. Or contact the consumer complaints section of your favourite newspaper.

SydneyBridge

9,411 posts

165 months

Sunday 2nd June
quotequote all
Do you have any seperate travel insurance that may cover it?
Did you pay by credit card?
Are you regular Cunard travellers? Cruise companies are normally very good to regulars, may be more willing to offer credit for a future cruise

TwigtheWonderkid

44,654 posts

157 months

Sunday 2nd June
quotequote all
Sheepshanks said:
Just looked at the policy for Staysure, who we've used for last couple of trips, and under "Changes to your health" it says:

"If we are unable to continue to provide cover, or if you
do not wish to pay the additional premium you will be
entitled to make a claim under Section 1 (Cancellation)
for costs which cannot be recovered elsewhere for
trips booked prior to the change in health."

...which could only be as you'd expect. How can an insurer do anything else?

If you can't get hold of anyone sensible then I suppose you have to go through their complaints procedure and then the FOS. Or contact the consumer complaints section of your favourite newspaper.
Indeed. Kind of what I was alluding to in my initial reply. The key to this is getting to speak to someone sensible. Unfortunately, that's not always easy. Insurance is largely computer driven and automated so human beings are rare and human beings who are not basically call centre button monkeys are rarer still.

It's the price we pay for most of us choosing insurance on price only. The whole thing has become a race to the bottom.

E-bmw

Original Poster:

9,965 posts

159 months

Sunday 2nd June
quotequote all
TwigtheWonderkid said:
Sheepshanks said:
Just looked at the policy for Staysure, who we've used for last couple of trips, and under "Changes to your health" it says:

"If we are unable to continue to provide cover, or if you
do not wish to pay the additional premium you will be
entitled to make a claim under Section 1 (Cancellation)
for costs which cannot be recovered elsewhere for
trips booked prior to the change in health."

...which could only be as you'd expect. How can an insurer do anything else?

If you can't get hold of anyone sensible then I suppose you have to go through their complaints procedure and then the FOS. Or contact the consumer complaints section of your favourite newspaper.
Indeed. Kind of what I was alluding to in my initial reply. The key to this is getting to speak to someone sensible. Unfortunately, that's not always easy. Insurance is largely computer driven and automated so human beings are rare and human beings who are not basically call centre button monkeys are rarer still.

It's the price we pay for most of us choosing insurance on price only. The whole thing has become a race to the bottom.
OK, yes that makes sense, I will have another look through the insurance Ts & Cs to see if it is simply a case of them initially misdirecting us down the wrong rabbit hole.

Unfortunately the comment about price is neither true in this case as Cunard only recommend this particular insurer & they are not cheap, as in virtually £200 insurance for a 10 day cruise.

Colonel Cupcake

1,185 posts

52 months

Monday 3rd June
quotequote all
If you paid via credit card, can you get your deposit back via a chargeback.

E-bmw

Original Poster:

9,965 posts

159 months

Monday 3rd June
quotequote all
Colonel Cupcake said:
If you paid via credit card, can you get your deposit back via a chargeback.
Unfortunately I didn't.

Sheepshanks

34,979 posts

126 months

Monday 3rd June
quotequote all
Colonel Cupcake said:
If you paid via credit card, can you get your deposit back via a chargeback.
On what basis could he do that?

Even if the card company will do it, if Cunard objected, which they surely would, it just gets recharged again.

Simpo Two

87,036 posts

272 months

Tuesday 4th June
quotequote all
E-bmw said:
Cunard only recommend one so we have had to go with them
Part 2 doesn't really connect with Part 1. I suspect some law says you are not obliged to use Cunard's favourite insurance company with which they doubtless have a commission deal.

I would see what Insureandgo etc come up with. If they say 'Sorry we cannot cover Cunard cruises' at least you tried smile

Sheepshanks

34,979 posts

126 months

Tuesday 4th June
quotequote all
Simpo Two said:
E-bmw said:
Cunard only recommend one so we have had to go with them
Part 2 doesn't really connect with Part 1. I suspect some law says you are not obliged to use Cunard's favourite insurance company with which they doubtless have a commission deal.

I would see what Insureandgo etc come up with. If they say 'Sorry we cannot cover Cunard cruises' at least you tried smile
I was thinking that myself, but I suppose it's a bit like taking out a warranty - everyone says go for the one the manufacturer recommends as there's less likley to be hassle claimimg.

Apparently the medical centres on cruise ships make an absolute fortune.