Insurers make a mistake...

[Mark-insert old BMW]

I have an old VW Caddy that I use as my daily dogmobile and I was recently hit from behind by another van. It was only a relatively light bump that dented the rear doors, bumper and broke one window. They had a local garage do an estimate, then called me to say they'd be writing the van off as an uneconomical repair. Disappointed but not surprised. I told them that in that case I wished to retain the salvage and repair it myself.

A few days later I get an email confirming that I could indeed retain the salvage and that after deducting my excess I would get £700. I was a bit disappointed but their email said that I could ask their engineer to reconsider his valuation / offer but to keep the £700 they'd sent me. I then sent photos that showed what a nice example my Caddy was and said that I placed the value at circa £4.5K, which was the average cost of the 8 similar vans on eBay.

A couple of days pass and I get an email saying that they had reconsidered and would be sending me a further £3.5K in final settlement. I rang their office to confirm this was correct, so as to be sure I wasn't going to spend money I didn't have, only for them to reassure me that the figures quoted were correct. I then got a second email confirming that this amount was being paid via BACS and would reach my account within 3 working days. Mark is a happy bunny.

Bank holiday weekend passes, I spend some cash and commit to buying an E30. Mark is an even happier bunny. Happier than he's been for quite some time.

Today, I get a telephone call from my insurers saying that they ''made a mistake'' and the figures they quoted were in error and they paid me £3K more than they should have. They said they would send me an account number to refund them.

Given that I checked with them on at least 2 or 3 occasions and was given both verbal and written confirmation of the sum being paid out to me, how do I stand? Especially as I've spent half of it and committed to use the rest?

Mark

[Oceanrower]

Calls are recorded for training and monitoring purposes…

Surely that’s the contract fulfilled. Offer, acceptance and remuneration.

They’d be getting a big jog on from me!

[Mark-insert old BMW]

Oceanrower said:

Calls are recorded for training and monitoring purposes…

That's how I see it but could they then refuse to insure me or something like that?

[autumnsum]

Tell them you'll give it back when a judge tells you to.

[e-honda]

I wouldn't rule out the possibility of it being a scam, the bit asking for money back.

[Oceanrower]

Mark-insert old BMW said:

Oceanrower said:

Calls are recorded for training and monitoring purposes…

That's how I see it but could they then refuse to insure me or something like that?

I’m sure they could. But there’s an awful lot of other insurance companies out there…

[Mr Tidy]

Oceanrower said:

Mark-insert old BMW said:

Oceanrower said:

Calls are recorded for training and monitoring purposes…

That's how I see it but could they then refuse to insure me or something like that?

I’m sure they could. But there’s an awful lot of other insurance companies out there…

I'd be telling them where to go!

Especially as what they sent sounds like a more accurate valuation anyway.

[Beetnik]

If it had been made in error, you'd not made any enquiries and it was sat, unbeknown to you, in your bank account then you'd not have much of a case and would need to return it. However, if you have "changed your position" you have a good defence. You've acted in good faith and now don't have the money available to you to pay back. Try googling money paid in error change of position or have a look here.

[Rough101]

Why is there an excess if someone else hit you?

You shouldn’t be out of pocket at all here, they’re trying on a £300 payout?

I think you say you made I deal,with them, double checked, the vehicle is worth £4k, so it’s not as if they’ve sent you something ridiculous and plainly wrong.

[e-honda]

Beetnik said:

If it had been made in error, you'd not made any enquiries and it was sat, unbeknown to you, in your bank account then you'd not have much of a case and would need to return it. However, if you have "changed your position" you have a good defence. You've acted in good faith and now don't have the money available to you to pay back. Try googling money paid in error change of position or have a look here.

There is a big difference between money paid in error, and a full any final settlement made in writing, checked, paid out and then changing their mind.

[M4cruiser]

From the link posted above, this seems relevant:-

"The recipient may also avoid having to pay the money back if they can show they relied on a statement that they were entitled to the money such that it would be unfair to have to pay it back".

[NikBartlett]

Mark-insert old BMW said:

I have an old VW Caddy that I use as my daily dogmobile and I was recently hit from behind by another van. It was only a relatively light bump that dented the rear doors, bumper and broke one window. They had a local garage do an estimate, then called me to say they'd be writing the van off as an uneconomical repair. Disappointed but not surprised. I told them that in that case I wished to retain the salvage and repair it myself.

A few days later I get an email confirming that I could indeed retain the salvage and that after deducting my excess I would get £700. I was a bit disappointed but their email said that I could ask their engineer to reconsider his valuation / offer but to keep the £700 they'd sent me. I then sent photos that showed what a nice example my Caddy was and said that I placed the value at circa £4.5K, which was the average cost of the 8 similar vans on eBay.

A couple of days pass and I get an email saying that they had reconsidered and would be sending me a further £3.5K in final settlement. I rang their office to confirm this was correct, so as to be sure I wasn't going to spend money I didn't have, only for them to reassure me that the figures quoted were correct. I then got a second email confirming that this amount was being paid via BACS and would reach my account within 3 working days. Mark is a happy bunny.

Bank holiday weekend passes, I spend some cash and commit to buying an E30. Mark is an even happier bunny. Happier than he's been for quite some time.

Today, I get a telephone call from my insurers saying that they ''made a mistake'' and the figures they quoted were in error and they paid me £3K more than they should have. They said they would send me an account number to refund them.

Given that I checked with them on at least 2 or 3 occasions and was given both verbal and written confirmation of the sum being paid out to me, how do I stand? Especially as I've spent half of it and committed to use the rest?

Mark

Presumably it was the insurers who called and not some sophisticated scammers looking to extract £3K from you ?

[The Rotrex Kid]

Nothing to help, just wanted to say glad you’re back mark! Your absence after mentioning you were having an Op made me a bit worried! Good luck

[guitarcarfanatic]

Rough101 said:

Why is there an excess if someone else hit you?

You shouldn’t be out of pocket at all here, they’re trying on a £300 payout?

I think you say you made I deal,with them, double checked, the vehicle is worth £4k, so it’s not as if they’ve sent you something ridiculous and plainly wrong.

Because he is claiming off his policy. Typically, you pay the excess and then get the excess back if they successfully recover against a 3rd party.

[Mark-insert old BMW]

guitarcarfanatic said:

Rough101 said:

Why is there an excess if someone else hit you?

You shouldn’t be out of pocket at all here, they’re trying on a £300 payout?

I think you say you made I deal,with them, double checked, the vehicle is worth £4k, so it’s not as if they’ve sent you something ridiculous and plainly wrong.

Because he is claiming off his policy. Typically, you pay the excess and then get the excess back if they successfully recover against a 3rd party.

Sorry, I forgot to add that the other driver waved at me to pull over and when I did so, he did a runner. By the time I turned around and went after him he was gone in any of 3 directions. I went to Falmouth Police station but there was nobody there so I had to report the matter online.

For those that asked, it's definitely the insurers asking that I refund them.

As things stand I think i'll take some advice via the CAB and take it from there. It will be a struggle to repay the money already spent and I seem to recall stating on one of the calls that I wanted to be sure what to expect so as not to get myself into financial strife. I accepted and spent the money in good faith and there were at least 2 calls where they told me this amount was to be paid to me.

[Mark-insert old BMW]

The Rotrex Kid said:

Nothing to help, just wanted to say glad you’re back mark! Your absence after mentioning you were having an Op made me a bit worried! Good luck

Thank you.

I'm still a way off being recovered but certainly on the mend.

[hidetheelephants]

A depressing story on many levels and a reminder if I needed it that I must buy a dashcam. Hopefully your insurers will realise they are in the wrong.

[Short Grain]

hidetheelephants said:

A depressing story on many levels and a reminder if I needed it that I must buy a dashcam. Hopefully your insurers will realise they are in the wrong.

Nothing to add to the OP except I'd definitely be talking to CAB, and, hopefully, telling the ins. company to do one! And to hidetheelephants, get the dashcam! Halfords were doing good deals when they came to me and fitted mine! I watched him fit it from the comfort of my flat. Instant piece of mind when out and about!

[Roger Irrelevant]

Beetnik said:

If it had been made in error, you'd not made any enquiries and it was sat, unbeknown to you, in your bank account then you'd not have much of a case and would need to return it. However, if you have "changed your position" you have a good defence. You've acted in good faith and now don't have the money available to you to pay back. Try googling money paid in error change of position or have a look here.

This. In theory from a strict legal point of view the OP could be required to sell the BMW and pay back the insurer from the proceeds (but only to the extent that you wouldn't be out of pocket yourself). In reality explaining the situation to the insurer (including highlighting their serial incompetence), will almost certainly be enough for them to drop it. In my years as a lawyer working with insurance companies I've seen loads of these accidental overpayment cases, often for much higher values than this, and the advice is almost always 'you fked up, the customer's spent it, you could try recovering but it'll be far more bother than it's worth, so let it go and try not to do it again'.

[Alex Z]

They’ve made you a plausible offer in writing and paid out after you confirmed with them that it was correct. I don’t see that they have any grounds to claw it back now.