Car hit while parked - what happens if Cat B?
Discussion
Afternoon all.
Had the front of my car swiped by a 4x4 in works car park 2 weeks ago. It’s destroyed the headlight and bumper, slightly damaged the wing and fairly badly damaged the (OEM, and unique to this trim level) front splitter.
Other driver did stop, and wanted to sort it himself as he’s a panel beater. I wasn’t happy with this and wanted his insurance details, he has manipulated me for the last 2 weeks into agreeing to a cash settlement for me to get someone to sort it - I’m not really happy with this but agreed to it in the heat of the moment. Never had a claim before and the whole thing has been super stressful, and the other driver has been very persuasive.
Long story short, I’ve got a price off a guy at work to paint everything and repair the splitter, but I’ve still got to source a bumper. The other driver has sent me most of this money but won’t send the last portion until it’s repaired. I can’t see me getting this out of him (or the cost of the bumper) - he is notorious for being tight and worming his way out of things.
Anyway, he talked me out of going through insurance as he says it’ll go to Copart and I’ll never see it again. I’m pretty sure I can hang on to it until a claim is agreed - if it gets Cat N or Cat S then I just get a payout for the car and can take it to a body shop rather than just a guy from work? My worry is losing the car - either to Copart or if they Cat B it.
I have heard horror stories of older cars getting a Cat B for minor damage - I very much want to avoid this as it’s one of 5 left on the road so very difficult to replace. There does not appear to be any structural damage but the (bolt-on) metal bar behind the bumper is destroyed and the slam panel seems to have moved very slightly.
I know it’s not ideal that I’ve left it 2 weeks before claiming but he has been very persuasive and now he’s trying to hold back part of the value - again I can’t see me getting the bumper paid for even if I do get the remainder of the paint money.
What are my options? Again, I must not lose the car!
Had the front of my car swiped by a 4x4 in works car park 2 weeks ago. It’s destroyed the headlight and bumper, slightly damaged the wing and fairly badly damaged the (OEM, and unique to this trim level) front splitter.
Other driver did stop, and wanted to sort it himself as he’s a panel beater. I wasn’t happy with this and wanted his insurance details, he has manipulated me for the last 2 weeks into agreeing to a cash settlement for me to get someone to sort it - I’m not really happy with this but agreed to it in the heat of the moment. Never had a claim before and the whole thing has been super stressful, and the other driver has been very persuasive.
Long story short, I’ve got a price off a guy at work to paint everything and repair the splitter, but I’ve still got to source a bumper. The other driver has sent me most of this money but won’t send the last portion until it’s repaired. I can’t see me getting this out of him (or the cost of the bumper) - he is notorious for being tight and worming his way out of things.
Anyway, he talked me out of going through insurance as he says it’ll go to Copart and I’ll never see it again. I’m pretty sure I can hang on to it until a claim is agreed - if it gets Cat N or Cat S then I just get a payout for the car and can take it to a body shop rather than just a guy from work? My worry is losing the car - either to Copart or if they Cat B it.
I have heard horror stories of older cars getting a Cat B for minor damage - I very much want to avoid this as it’s one of 5 left on the road so very difficult to replace. There does not appear to be any structural damage but the (bolt-on) metal bar behind the bumper is destroyed and the slam panel seems to have moved very slightly.
I know it’s not ideal that I’ve left it 2 weeks before claiming but he has been very persuasive and now he’s trying to hold back part of the value - again I can’t see me getting the bumper paid for even if I do get the remainder of the paint money.
What are my options? Again, I must not lose the car!
If you absolutely must not stand any chance of losing the car then you're probably going to be better getting it done as you currently are.
Your insurance company will price replacing all parts with new genuine parts at full Manufacturer's Recommended Retail Price plus labour plus paint & all consumables used in the repair & that can get very expensive very quickly esp if it isn't a mass produced or is now a rare vehicle due to age & few survive.
For a rare vehicle the difficulty could be the lack of new parts.
They have no interest in sourcing good used parts & usually no interest in repairing damaged parts.
Sight unseen it's impossible for anyone to say just how bad it all is.
Your insurance company will price replacing all parts with new genuine parts at full Manufacturer's Recommended Retail Price plus labour plus paint & all consumables used in the repair & that can get very expensive very quickly esp if it isn't a mass produced or is now a rare vehicle due to age & few survive.
For a rare vehicle the difficulty could be the lack of new parts.
They have no interest in sourcing good used parts & usually no interest in repairing damaged parts.
Sight unseen it's impossible for anyone to say just how bad it all is.
Thanks for the replies.
Is there likely to be an issue with me having not started a claim sooner? Again, he was very manipulative on the phone and in person, and has made me absolutely s
t myself about losing the car.
Talking to friends today I’m told I can insist on an assessor coming to assess it on my drive rather than it go off to Copart or wherever.
I’ve done quite a bit of research today and it looks like it’ll be written off - obsolete 25 year old car with no chance of new OEM stuff being available. I am happy to buy the parts secondhand and then send it into a body shop. I assume it’ll be written off, as long as it’s a category where I get to keep the car and put it back on the road then I’m not too fussed.
Or I’ve heard I can get cash in lieu of repair? The value of the car on my policy is £7k (not an agreed value, but it is there in black and white). Trade value is pennies (it’s an old, rare performance version of a boring car) and there’s nothing like-for-like on eBay. There’s a highly modified example on Auto Trader for £10k, and the closest things to mine on eBay start at £6k and go to £13k so I think I can back up my value quite easily.
Is there likely to be an issue with me having not started a claim sooner? Again, he was very manipulative on the phone and in person, and has made me absolutely s
t myself about losing the car. Talking to friends today I’m told I can insist on an assessor coming to assess it on my drive rather than it go off to Copart or wherever.
I’ve done quite a bit of research today and it looks like it’ll be written off - obsolete 25 year old car with no chance of new OEM stuff being available. I am happy to buy the parts secondhand and then send it into a body shop. I assume it’ll be written off, as long as it’s a category where I get to keep the car and put it back on the road then I’m not too fussed.
Or I’ve heard I can get cash in lieu of repair? The value of the car on my policy is £7k (not an agreed value, but it is there in black and white). Trade value is pennies (it’s an old, rare performance version of a boring car) and there’s nothing like-for-like on eBay. There’s a highly modified example on Auto Trader for £10k, and the closest things to mine on eBay start at £6k and go to £13k so I think I can back up my value quite easily.
If you want to keep the car and don't want a CAT marker on it what you are doing is probably the best approach based on my experience when my car got hit in the rear last year. I claimed from the insurer if the other car and based on an estimate from the bodyshop they recommended they made it a Cat N, but didn't bother telling me for 2 weeks. 
Good luck.
Good luck.
Jaaack said:
..it’s an old, rare performance version of a boring car) and there’s nothing like-for-like on eBay. There’s a highly modified example on Auto Trader for £10k, and the closest things to mine on eBay start at £6k and go to £13k so I think I can back up my value quite easily.
Interested to know what car it is OP?GasEngineer said:
Jaaack said:
..it’s an old, rare performance version of a boring car) and there’s nothing like-for-like on eBay. There’s a highly modified example on Auto Trader for £10k, and the closest things to mine on eBay start at £6k and go to £13k so I think I can back up my value quite easily.
Interested to know what car it is OP?If I’m reading this right, you’ve done a deal with the bloke that hit your car, been part paid, and now want to claim from someone’s insurance for the same damage?
His insurer will say, you’ve settled the claim with the bloke, we’ve got no more liability.
Your insurer will say … who knows … if they would indemnify you for your loss (in principle) their right to subrogate is affected because you’ve messed around with their right to claim from the third party - by settling.
His insurer will say, you’ve settled the claim with the bloke, we’ve got no more liability.
Your insurer will say … who knows … if they would indemnify you for your loss (in principle) their right to subrogate is affected because you’ve messed around with their right to claim from the third party - by settling.
If you absolutely must not lose the car, and I definitely understand that desire, my experience in the past with insurance writing of older cars would lead me to say that you're doing the correct thing by not letting them anywhere near it, at all, in any way, shape, or form.
Only you know what options for persuasion are avaliable to you.
Jaaack said:
I can’t see me getting this out of him (or the cost of the bumper) - he is notorious for being tight and worming his way out of things.
Can't help you there, I'm afraid, but out of interest, is he an employee at the same place, a customer, or a supplier? You mentioned it happened in the work carpark.Only you know what options for persuasion are avaliable to you.
Austin_Metro said:
If I’m reading this right, you’ve done a deal with the bloke that hit your car, been part paid, and now want to claim from someone’s insurance for the same damage?
His insurer will say, you’ve settled the claim with the bloke, we’ve got no more liability.
Your insurer will say … who knows … if they would indemnify you for your loss (in principle) their right to subrogate is affected because you’ve messed around with their right to claim from the third party - by settling.
Yes he’s part paid it but wants to go with me to pick the car up from paint (it can’t be painted for another 6 weeks) before paying the rest…and the cost of a bumper is yet to be determined as I’ve not found one. His insurer will say, you’ve settled the claim with the bloke, we’ve got no more liability.
Your insurer will say … who knows … if they would indemnify you for your loss (in principle) their right to subrogate is affected because you’ve messed around with their right to claim from the third party - by settling.
Of course if I was to involve insurance I’d be sending the money back beforehand.
Understand what you’re saying though and when put like that, it does sound like I’d not have much of a leg to stand on. Lesson learned, don’t let the b
ds manipulate me next time 
InitialDave said:
If you absolutely must not lose the car, and I definitely understand that desire, my experience in the past with insurance writing of older cars would lead me to say that you're doing the correct thing by not letting them anywhere near it, at all, in any way, shape, or form.
Only you know what options for persuasion are avaliable to you.
He’s an employee at the same place, both under the same contracts etc but different departments. We have a union, I’m wondering if it’s worth approaching them on Monday to act as a sort of mediator/witness to any agreements we come to (if I steer clear of involving insurance)Jaaack said:
I can’t see me getting this out of him (or the cost of the bumper) - he is notorious for being tight and worming his way out of things.
Can't help you there, I'm afraid, but out of interest, is he an employee at the same place, a customer, or a supplier? You mentioned it happened in the work carpark.Only you know what options for persuasion are avaliable to you.
Basically just don’t want him to p
s off and say he isn’t paying any more once I’ve had the work done You already know that you have put yourself into a fairly poor position, if this happens again you should remember that it was the other guy that did the crashing and he has a reason to try to avoid going through his insurance.
You may still be able to rescue this by simply telling him that he can either pay the whole lot now or have the money back that he has paid and the insurance can take care of it. How well that works probably depends on how well you can lean on him rather than it being the other way round.
If it did go to insurance it sounds like the car could be classed as a write-off simply because they will only pay up to a certain percentage of value for a repair. Of course if they are willing to get it repaired you can expect a high standard job to be done and the car comes out clean and unclassified.
However, if it is written off the category is based on the actual level of damage, not the cost of repair.
From your description I would guess it would be "non-structural, repairable" but some fairly lightly damaged cars do class as "structural, repairable". For it to be classed as "breaker" it needs to be in a state where a safe repair is unrealistic. A breaker cannot be put back on the road again but this really doesn’t seem likely from what you have said.
Copart are the big player in moving/storing/selling written off cars but this is still your car, they don’t get to just come and take it off you until you say so.
If you end up dealing with the other guys insurance company (or with your own come to that although I would avoid this option if possible as it adds another layer of complexity that can be avoided) then they can refuse to repair on the basis of cost and have to compensate you for the write-off. This would normally just be a book figure but for an old/unusual car it comes down to a negotiated figure based on actual market evidence. They will try to lowball you and you come up with proof of what it would actually cost to replace - ebay ads, owners club valuations etc all help build the case.
It’s a haggle and important to remember that while they sound like like the professionals that have all the power, they actually find these individual cases annoyingly time consuming and your level of persistence is key to success.
During the process, or once you get to a figure, you can let them know that you would still like to keep the car and that can be factored in to the calculation. They like you to tell them early on that you want to keep the car but I would question whether that is because it helps their negotiating position so you would have to decide what is best on that one.
They will generally have a % value in mind that you can have the car back for so if for instance you agree a value of £8,000 and they want 25% for the car then they would pay you out at £6,000 plus the car. Remember though that even if that more than covers what it will cost you to repair the car, it will show up as a write off in future so you need to consider future values when agreeing a figure.
One way or another, you need to be willing to be a bit awkward and not get pushed around on this to get anywhere. Whether you get the rest of the money out of the guy right now or get it back to the insurance process there will be someone who has a vested interest in paying less than you are owed, don’t let them!
You may still be able to rescue this by simply telling him that he can either pay the whole lot now or have the money back that he has paid and the insurance can take care of it. How well that works probably depends on how well you can lean on him rather than it being the other way round.
If it did go to insurance it sounds like the car could be classed as a write-off simply because they will only pay up to a certain percentage of value for a repair. Of course if they are willing to get it repaired you can expect a high standard job to be done and the car comes out clean and unclassified.
However, if it is written off the category is based on the actual level of damage, not the cost of repair.
From your description I would guess it would be "non-structural, repairable" but some fairly lightly damaged cars do class as "structural, repairable". For it to be classed as "breaker" it needs to be in a state where a safe repair is unrealistic. A breaker cannot be put back on the road again but this really doesn’t seem likely from what you have said.
Copart are the big player in moving/storing/selling written off cars but this is still your car, they don’t get to just come and take it off you until you say so.
If you end up dealing with the other guys insurance company (or with your own come to that although I would avoid this option if possible as it adds another layer of complexity that can be avoided) then they can refuse to repair on the basis of cost and have to compensate you for the write-off. This would normally just be a book figure but for an old/unusual car it comes down to a negotiated figure based on actual market evidence. They will try to lowball you and you come up with proof of what it would actually cost to replace - ebay ads, owners club valuations etc all help build the case.
It’s a haggle and important to remember that while they sound like like the professionals that have all the power, they actually find these individual cases annoyingly time consuming and your level of persistence is key to success.
During the process, or once you get to a figure, you can let them know that you would still like to keep the car and that can be factored in to the calculation. They like you to tell them early on that you want to keep the car but I would question whether that is because it helps their negotiating position so you would have to decide what is best on that one.
They will generally have a % value in mind that you can have the car back for so if for instance you agree a value of £8,000 and they want 25% for the car then they would pay you out at £6,000 plus the car. Remember though that even if that more than covers what it will cost you to repair the car, it will show up as a write off in future so you need to consider future values when agreeing a figure.
One way or another, you need to be willing to be a bit awkward and not get pushed around on this to get anywhere. Whether you get the rest of the money out of the guy right now or get it back to the insurance process there will be someone who has a vested interest in paying less than you are owed, don’t let them!
It's possible that an assessor will categorise it as a 'breaker'.
It doesn't take much, certain structural damage which raises the risk of the car never being sound again.
If anything is out of alignment in a way that's perceived as dififcult to fix.
On an old car, corrosion can complicate things.
To see it from the assessors POV, does he want that car back on the road with his name chalked against it?
It doesn't take much, certain structural damage which raises the risk of the car never being sound again.
If anything is out of alignment in a way that's perceived as dififcult to fix.
On an old car, corrosion can complicate things.
To see it from the assessors POV, does he want that car back on the road with his name chalked against it?
Steve H said:
However, if it is written off the category is based on the actual level of damage, not the cost of repair.
You can always keep the car and get a reduced payout. So OP are you desperate to keep car without a Cat or just to keep the car? Each option has a different approach. Also are you so desperate to keep it on the road that you don’t want to risk an assessor saying it’s A or B?
TonyF1 said:
You can always keep the car and get a reduced payout. ....
Not entirely true.If it is assessed as cat A or B, you can't keep it.
You see some horrendous wreckage for sale which has avoided being 'assessed', you see cars being cat B for relatively minor knocks which damage critical points or expose structural issues like corrosion.
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