Help with my Late Fathers Static Caravan
Discussion
Hi All
My father passed away back in November 23. For many years, he has had a static caravan on a site just outside Bewdley.
Its not a huge place (approx. 30 statics on there along with a few touring caravans). It is based on a working farm and is basically a field, with designated pitches for the statics. They are all connected properly with water / electric etc.
I'd guess its been sited there around 10 years. maybe more. The static, is not worth a lot. Few grand maximum I would say.
He has a habit of charging people for everything. One friend on there recently sold his van for a considerable sum, and had to pay the site owner a good £6k out of the sale, despite said friend arranging removal of the van himself.
This is where I (well, my late fathers partner), have ran into a slight issue. Farm owner is now saying we need to pay a "change of ownership fee", which he has billed us £500 for - not sure where he has got this figure from. My dads partner, understandably, is quite upset at this. She is a pensioner, doesn't have much money (my dad passed away in debt also, which has been sorted), so this is a considerable amount of money for her (they were not married).
However, to have the caravan moved from the site requires transport, at a considerable sum, and then a "disconnection fee" to be paid to the site owner, of many pounds, I would suspect.
So we are unsure now where to go from here, as while the site fees are relatively cheap for the area, having to pay the change of ownership fee of this amount, takes the piss.
On the other hand, moving it is going to cost even more.
Are there any laws around this sort of thing, and what site owners can charge, or can they just please themselves?
I doubt the site owner would want the van, as its pretty worthless to him, so he won't want to sell it on or anything like that.
Site fees will have to be paid imminently as well (around £1,500).
Any advice on how to proceed from here would be grateful. Most will say speak to the farm owner, but he is far from a reasonable man, and his wife is even worse!
Thanks
James
My father passed away back in November 23. For many years, he has had a static caravan on a site just outside Bewdley.
Its not a huge place (approx. 30 statics on there along with a few touring caravans). It is based on a working farm and is basically a field, with designated pitches for the statics. They are all connected properly with water / electric etc.
I'd guess its been sited there around 10 years. maybe more. The static, is not worth a lot. Few grand maximum I would say.
He has a habit of charging people for everything. One friend on there recently sold his van for a considerable sum, and had to pay the site owner a good £6k out of the sale, despite said friend arranging removal of the van himself.
This is where I (well, my late fathers partner), have ran into a slight issue. Farm owner is now saying we need to pay a "change of ownership fee", which he has billed us £500 for - not sure where he has got this figure from. My dads partner, understandably, is quite upset at this. She is a pensioner, doesn't have much money (my dad passed away in debt also, which has been sorted), so this is a considerable amount of money for her (they were not married).
However, to have the caravan moved from the site requires transport, at a considerable sum, and then a "disconnection fee" to be paid to the site owner, of many pounds, I would suspect.
So we are unsure now where to go from here, as while the site fees are relatively cheap for the area, having to pay the change of ownership fee of this amount, takes the piss.
On the other hand, moving it is going to cost even more.
Are there any laws around this sort of thing, and what site owners can charge, or can they just please themselves?
I doubt the site owner would want the van, as its pretty worthless to him, so he won't want to sell it on or anything like that.
Site fees will have to be paid imminently as well (around £1,500).
Any advice on how to proceed from here would be grateful. Most will say speak to the farm owner, but he is far from a reasonable man, and his wife is even worse!
Thanks
James
Sorry to hear of your loss.
If not married, the caravan has no intrinsic value, wanted contents and he had no assets I'd be tempted by replying along the lines of "I am afraid that the owner has passed and the estate has no assets from which to settle any demand. Please dispose of the caravan as you see fit"
If not married, the caravan has no intrinsic value, wanted contents and he had no assets I'd be tempted by replying along the lines of "I am afraid that the owner has passed and the estate has no assets from which to settle any demand. Please dispose of the caravan as you see fit"
paintman said:
Sorry for your loss.
What does any contract your late father had with the site owner say?
No contract - I've checked with someone else on the site, who just has the original bill of sale from their caravan which they purchased on there.What does any contract your late father had with the site owner say?
The person I spoke too said: Cohabitation for 2 years or more gives her the same rights as a married woman. So if your dad left it to her they have no right to charge to put it in her name.
Whether this is true or not, I'm not sure.
Bill said:
And does she want the van and have £1.5/2k available.I did think of the eBay route, but again, would have to pay the owner disconnection fees, so either way, we are screwed with having to pay large amounts!
Work out what you want to do with the caravan and work backwards from there. If you want to use the caravan in situ then no point in going nuclear with the site owner and negotiation required. If you want to remove the caravan and use/sell or just leave in situ and abandon, then use a different approach.
James_N said:
The static, is not worth a lot. Few grand maximum I would say.
Farm owner is now saying we need to pay a "change of ownership fee", which he has billed us £500 for
However, to have the caravan moved from the site requires transport, at a considerable sum, and then a "disconnection fee" to be paid to the site owner, of many pounds, I would suspect.
Are there any laws around this sort of thing, and what site owners can charge, or can they just please themselves?
I doubt the site owner would want the van, as its pretty worthless to him, so he won't want to sell it on or anything like that.
Site fees will have to be paid imminently as well (around £1,500).
The biggest thing in that list IMHO is the imminent bill for £1,500, which I doubt you'd want to receive. First, can it be made monthly to give you more thinking time? See if he has any empathy given the bereavement.Farm owner is now saying we need to pay a "change of ownership fee", which he has billed us £500 for
However, to have the caravan moved from the site requires transport, at a considerable sum, and then a "disconnection fee" to be paid to the site owner, of many pounds, I would suspect.
Are there any laws around this sort of thing, and what site owners can charge, or can they just please themselves?
I doubt the site owner would want the van, as its pretty worthless to him, so he won't want to sell it on or anything like that.
Site fees will have to be paid imminently as well (around £1,500).
Second, do you want to keep the caravan? If you just left it there and said 'keep it' he'll could make money hiring it to someone else.
Do the maths - cost to remove + disconnection cost (if it's genuine and he hasn't just made it up) vs sale price of caravan. You say it's worth a few K so there would be some profit, no?
James_N said:
She does have £1.5k but thats all she has (plus state pension) She did want to keep the caravan, but has realised its probably not wise with the costs involved.
These sorts of places often seem to have unreasonable terms. Tell the owner he can have his £1500 subs but there's no grounds for the changeover fee so he isn't having that.Or Ebay and let the builder/whoever buys it argue the toss with the site owner.
boyse7en said:
If he says that the partner doesn't have a contract with him for the siting of the van - which seems to be the case as he is demanding £500 to transfer the contract over – then who is he asking for the £1500 site fees from? Your father's estate?
Great point and one well worth raising with the site owner.Caravan Contract is with the deceased. £1500 fee's are expected from his estate, which has zero/negative funds. Excellent grounds to start discussions as to whether he is really expecting you/partner to pay up £500 for contract transfer to enable him to then pursuing you/partner for site fees. Hopefully this will help him realise he is potentially on a hiding to nothing here, except maybe an option where he could potentially take ownership of the caravan for £0, on the basis the current contract is terminated and all fee's are removed.
kiethton said:
Sorry to hear of your loss.
If not married, the caravan has no intrinsic value, wanted contents and he had no assets I'd be tempted by replying along the lines of "I am afraid that the owner has passed and the estate has no assets from which to settle any demand. Please dispose of the caravan as you see fit"
If not married, the caravan has no intrinsic value, wanted contents and he had no assets I'd be tempted by replying along the lines of "I am afraid that the owner has passed and the estate has no assets from which to settle any demand. Please dispose of the caravan as you see fit"
^ this is what I would do too. If farmer / site owner isn't the easiest person to deal with, I'd use this opportunity to remove this liability from your father's estate and not transfer the liability to the estate of his partner. If the caravan isn't worth much more than it will cost in site fees / ownership transfer / to move it, I'd transfer ownership of it to the farmer in lieu of site and other fees and walk away..... I would bet the farmer will be satisfied with the arrangement as he'll essentially 'sell it on' with minimal overall hassle and you'll save yourself the headache of having to deal with it. If there is no contract it will be difficult / not worth it for the farmer to come after your father's estate for anything else.
larrylamb11 said:
kiethton said:
Sorry to hear of your loss.
If not married, the caravan has no intrinsic value, wanted contents and he had no assets I'd be tempted by replying along the lines of "I am afraid that the owner has passed and the estate has no assets from which to settle any demand. Please dispose of the caravan as you see fit"
If not married, the caravan has no intrinsic value, wanted contents and he had no assets I'd be tempted by replying along the lines of "I am afraid that the owner has passed and the estate has no assets from which to settle any demand. Please dispose of the caravan as you see fit"
^ this is what I would do too. If farmer / site owner isn't the easiest person to deal with, I'd use this opportunity to remove this liability from your father's estate and not transfer the liability to the estate of his partner. If the caravan isn't worth much more than it will cost in site fees / ownership transfer / to move it, I'd transfer ownership of it to the farmer in lieu of site and other fees and walk away..... I would bet the farmer will be satisfied with the arrangement as he'll essentially 'sell it on' with minimal overall hassle and you'll save yourself the headache of having to deal with it. If there is no contract it will be difficult / not worth it for the farmer to come after your father's estate for anything else.
MrBig said:
larrylamb11 said:
kiethton said:
Sorry to hear of your loss.
If not married, the caravan has no intrinsic value, wanted contents and he had no assets I'd be tempted by replying along the lines of "I am afraid that the owner has passed and the estate has no assets from which to settle any demand. Please dispose of the caravan as you see fit"
If not married, the caravan has no intrinsic value, wanted contents and he had no assets I'd be tempted by replying along the lines of "I am afraid that the owner has passed and the estate has no assets from which to settle any demand. Please dispose of the caravan as you see fit"
^ this is what I would do too. If farmer / site owner isn't the easiest person to deal with, I'd use this opportunity to remove this liability from your father's estate and not transfer the liability to the estate of his partner. If the caravan isn't worth much more than it will cost in site fees / ownership transfer / to move it, I'd transfer ownership of it to the farmer in lieu of site and other fees and walk away..... I would bet the farmer will be satisfied with the arrangement as he'll essentially 'sell it on' with minimal overall hassle and you'll save yourself the headache of having to deal with it. If there is no contract it will be difficult / not worth it for the farmer to come after your father's estate for anything else.
larrylamb11 said:
kiethton said:
Sorry to hear of your loss.
If not married, the caravan has no intrinsic value, wanted contents and he had no assets I'd be tempted by replying along the lines of "I am afraid that the owner has passed and the estate has no assets from which to settle any demand. Please dispose of the caravan as you see fit"
If not married, the caravan has no intrinsic value, wanted contents and he had no assets I'd be tempted by replying along the lines of "I am afraid that the owner has passed and the estate has no assets from which to settle any demand. Please dispose of the caravan as you see fit"
^ this is what I would do too. If farmer / site owner isn't the easiest person to deal with, I'd use this opportunity to remove this liability from your father's estate and not transfer the liability to the estate of his partner. If the caravan isn't worth much more than it will cost in site fees / ownership transfer / to move it, I'd transfer ownership of it to the farmer in lieu of site and other fees and walk away..... I would bet the farmer will be satisfied with the arrangement as he'll essentially 'sell it on' with minimal overall hassle and you'll save yourself the headache of having to deal with it. If there is no contract it will be difficult / not worth it for the farmer to come after your father's estate for anything else.
Will your late Father's estate have any assets in it? If not then I would tell the site owner there are no assets and just walk away from it.
The common law wife after 2 years story is just that a story and I do not believe is relevant so his partner has no liability.
If you are dealing with the estate, just tot up the liabilities v assets and see what give max value.
The common law wife after 2 years story is just that a story and I do not believe is relevant so his partner has no liability.
If you are dealing with the estate, just tot up the liabilities v assets and see what give max value.
I'm not a lawyer, but as I see it, if there never was any contract then the site owner can only charge for the existing obligations, ie the existing ongoing rent. If he wants to charge for anything else that's a new contract which the estate can accept or refuse as suits.
If your father's partner wants to keep the caravan on site at the terms asked for by the owner that's entirely up to her/you. If she doesn't, I can't see how he can stop her removing her own property without additional charges as there is no contractual obligation.
If your father's partner wants to keep the caravan on site at the terms asked for by the owner that's entirely up to her/you. If she doesn't, I can't see how he can stop her removing her own property without additional charges as there is no contractual obligation.
boyse7en said:
If he says that the partner doesn't have a contract with him for the siting of the van - which seems to be the case as he is demanding £500 to transfer the contract over – then who is he asking for the £1500 site fees from? Your father's estate?
Exactly this and of course at this moment in time, site owner is unaware that my dad died in debt, so is unaware there is no money in his estate.My dad had a loan outstanding at the bank for £8k. On his death, they instructed debt collectors (I assume this is a standard issue when an account holder dies and funds are owed). Debt collectors asked me to fill in an assets and liabilities form, which I did, and they replied stating they acknowledge receipt of the form, and I won't be hearing from them again in respect of the debt and they would transfer the issue back to the bank (I haven't heard from the bank since, so I assume it's been written off)
I think we have an easy get out at the moment. I can send him a recorded delivery letter (after I've been down at the weekend to remove some possessions out of it!), sending him proof of me being executor (not my dad's partner as I think he assumes), and proof of all the debt collectors correspondence to prove lack of cash/ assets.
I wouldn't think there is much more he can do? Me and my dad's partner surely can't be liable and there is no money to pay from the estate so he will have to deal with it himself.
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