What where they doing?!?!?!?!?

[DancingMoose]

It was a few months ago now, but I thought I'd mention it here so U guys can ahve a chuckle at the officers who "use their discretion" in a properly clueless way.

Myself and a couple of friends where on the way back from McDonalds one sunday night through Guildford when we got caught up in the "cruise".

One of the guys asked me to follow a "Maxed" fiesta (I forget why) away from the lights. This was in a section of the cruise where hand-held speed detectors are everywhere, so I trundled after them up to the next roundabout, where they turned off.

I couldn't be bothered to follow them round town all nite so I turned round to head home again.

As I accelerate off the roundabout the blue lights appear behind me. So I pull over to let him by. And he stops behind me.

We both get out and I ask (politely) what seems to be the problem?

Apparently I'm a cruise-boy person. In my (perfectly standard) 15-year-old rusty green E-reg cavalier.

So what was I doing? Speeding? Racing off the lights? Cornering too fast? Accelerating to hard?

Nope. Donuts and wheelspin in a car park.

I did actually laugh at this point. Not clever but I couldn't help it.

Does the nice officer know that the Vauxhall Cavailer Auto (road-going monster that it is) couldn't possibly do donuts?

Several reasons,

one ITS FRONT WHEEL DRIVE.

two, it doesn't have the grunt.

three, it's an auto, hence only has 3 cogs and couldn't spin the wheels coz of the long ratios. Even if the necessary grunt was supplied by Sellafield nuclear power station, the car would shift up into a higher gear to reduce the wheelspin.



He didn't believe me. Not for a second. In the end a riot van and two panda cars attended the scene and I had a right royal debate with the lot of them.

ALL OF THIS HAPPENING WITH MAX POWER NISSAN SKYLINES/ SCOOBYS / EVOs THUNDERING BY!!!

In the end one of them said something along the lines of "we don't have the evidence, but I wanted to make sure you were pulled about this."

They NEVER believed me.

Takes the , really does.

This, amongst other instances, is why I have NO respect for the huge majority of serving officers.

(Sorry madcop etc... You guys seem sane)

[hertsbiker]

So, no proof - just a tug? nice. Welcome to the world I have to live in as a biker.

"oooh sir, you seem to have hoisted the front wheel over that hump backed bridge".

Yes officer, bikes do that, if you get one worth riding. Can you ride officer? it can be quite good fun. Ah, you don't allow fun do you? Can I go now?

Grrrrr.

[mondeoman]

Don't they think about the damage this type of thing does to their reputation??

How ferkin stooopid can they get - 2 pandas and a riot van to deal with a car that could'nt pull the skin off a rice pudding!! laughable really, if it wasn't so sad.

[Jason F]

mondeoman said: Don't they think about the damage this type of thing does to their reputation??

The cops I know do care, however they are told what they need to do (and targets to hit) by higher people who seem about as clueless as a person can be.i.e. Ultra Politically Correct

[DancingMoose]

How does pulling over a slow-moving creaky old banger help them meet targets when there's a fleet of Max-Power badboys flying by?

Basically it proves the theory that they'll always stick up for each other. Any one of the cops who jumped out of the riot van/panda cars could have said "hold on guys, we've *u*ked up here"... but none did, instead I got interrogated from many angles in a vain attempt to prove wrong-doing.

Gimps.

[madcop]

DancingMoose said: How does pulling over a slow-moving creaky old banger help them meet targets when there's a fleet of Max-Power badboys flying by?

I will tell you how. The last one at Milton Keynes was the subject of the recovery of two replica firearms and several arrests for a wide range of criminal offences. Some were even disqualified. Why would anyone attending a car rally want to take a replica firearm with them?

That is why they pull over these type of people. If you run with the hare, don't be surprised if you are chased by the hounds!

Basically it proves the theory that they'll always stick up for each other. Any one of the cops who jumped out of the riot van/panda cars could have said "hold on guys, we've *u*ked up here"... but none did, instead I got interrogated from many angles in a vain attempt to prove wrong-doing.

Gimps.

Did any of them know who you are?
You stated that you started to give them a hard time.
In that case it would have been prudent to get some back up as you never know how things are going to pan out. It may have been that the riot van was the nearest or only vehicle to back up at the time.

Its all about impact factors. I now identify impact factors such as a bloke at a Kebab van who did no more than transfer his Kebab from his right hand to his left before planting his right fist squarley between my eyes.
If I see anyone do this at a Kebab stand, I tend to back away and call for help if I am alone, as I very nearly always am.

You lost nothing by being interrogated as you were found to be a law abiding citizen. How would they know that without checking you and your car. Many of te vehicles that attend those Max Power meets shouldnt be on the road!

There is another thread going at the moment about the huge disparity between speeding offences and those people prosecuted for vehicle defects. By pulling over older cars they are more likely to find more serious defects. You should be pleased that they are doing this to keep you and me safer on the road and that they infact didn't manage to find anything wrong so you were able to drive away with a smug grin on your face.

If you want to attend a car meet, then go to something like V.W Surrey run. You will see some top rate machinary and not a Police vehicle in site.

Leave the Max power idiots to their own funerals. You have joined a decent site now. Become a decent petrol head instead of a Novaboy

[Leadfoot]

Just think how much worse it could have been if you'd been hit with the kebab (donneror shish BTW?). I reckon you had a lucky escape.

>> Edited by Leadfoot on Tuesday 29th October 01:16

[DancingMoose]

Madcop,

I wasn't attending the 'cruise', just passing. Rest assured I personally have no time for Mr & Mrs Max Power (just doing as asked by a mate when I turned after the fiesta).

I do see your point about checking old cars over, and I readily accept it's a good thing. The problem I had in this case was their insisting I had done wrong to justify their actions.

If they had stopped me and said "We want to check your car" I wouldn't mind at all, in fact I expect it every time I use the car (It really looks like a wreck). But they kept asking me about my driving that evening and they didn't really look at the car itself (except a quick look at the reg plates??? ).

I think I didn't made myself clear earlier, at no point did I give them "attitude" . I laughed when he suggested I was doing 'donuts' , but that was genuine suprise not sarcasm or anything. I also mentioned we had a royal debate about my car's abilities - also true - but you don't need to be hostile to debate an issue .

At no time (to my knowledge - though I wouln't spot the kebab thing) did I act threateningly/aggresively to the officers , that benefits nobody, in fact I always try to be polite, it's a difficult job and I wouldn't want to do it! (There was also the fact that I was waiting for Jeremy Beadle or someone to jump out.)

Overall I think 2 pandas and a riot van was WAY overkill, and that they were wasting my time and theirs. A few weeks before that event there was a major accident at the Guildford cruise, caused by a MaxPower incident, not a dicky old shed-mobile. I had thought this would have focussed their minds a bit...

Still, they have the power and hence they must decide how to use it. All I can/will do about it is have a good whinge on here.

*Al



Edited : To note that none of them knew me, as the only police dealings I've ever had was an arrest for credit card fraud, (later proved to be a complete up on their part).

Edited again : To note that the nice lady who arrested me on credit card fraud wasn't there.

>> Edited by DancingMoose on Tuesday 29th October 01:45

>> Edited by DancingMoose on Tuesday 29th October 01:45

[hertsbiker]

Its all about impact factors. I now identify impact factors such as a bloke at a Kebab van who did no more than transfer his Kebab from his right hand to his left before planting his right fist squarley between my eyes.

Personally I'd find a chilli-soaked kebab in the face a lot more distressing than a punch ! also can do some nasty jabs with the left hand. But point taken about warning signs!! you do have a tricky job I must admit.
C

[CB-Dave]

Many of te vehicles that attend those Max Power meets shouldnt be on the road!

Now now madcop, you can't make that kind of a sweeping statement.

I know a lot of people with modified cars and if anything they're more road-legal than most of the day to day motors you see. Why - because they are that used to being stop-checked by the police you have to be squeaky clean.

Granted, people who do stuff like displaying coloured lights etc (neon washerjets etc) should be gripped and fined accordingly, but the majority of enthusiast-owned modified cars are a lot safer than most of the cars on the road.

Bigger brakes than standard, improved suspension, wider wheels (therefore better road holding), sports tyres (better grip) etc etc etc all lead to a safer car. Granted, there are the muppets - but for the most part these are the people 'lax plougher' aim their tat at.

I've said this many times on noticeboards - if you take pride in your car, and you know you are a 'target' for the police, you will strive to keep that car 101% road legal - it's for an easy life at the end of the day.

[DancingMoose]

I dunno about that... A few mates of mine are into this kinda thing. To many of them the next 'mod' is all they care about.

One lad I knew went for nearly 6 months without tax/mot so he could afford to do 'a few bits'. Happliy I hear he's sorted his act out now, but its a worrying thought.

Also worrying is their love of big engines/more power without considering the effect of the extra weight/grunt on their brakes/steering etc...

All seems a bit dodgy to me. A lot of time & effort went into those cars at the factory, you can't just glue in new bits and expect it to cope.

[CB-Dave]

I see how you think, but you have to remember that a lot of work went into making the cars adequate performers for lots of situations - hence the reason you don't get ported and polished heads from the factory (cost) and you have very wide parameters on fuel maps (varying octane levels etc).

Remapping a fiesta zetec and remapping a chim both achieve the same goal - shortening the parameters so the car performs at it's absolute best. Granted the chim would give more output, but the same concept is true.

[madcop]

CB-Dave said:
Now now madcop, you can't make that kind of a sweeping statement.


...improved suspension, wider wheels (therefore better road holding), sports tyres (better grip) etc etc etc all lead to a safer car. ...

Oh yes I can as its true.

The modified ones eh?
How many of them understand about things like
1. Centre point steering,
2. Castor angle,
3. Camber angle,
4. King pin inclination,
5. Ackerman angle,
6. Tyre slip angle,

Do they go to the vehicle manufacturer before upgrading the wheels, suspension etc and see where they part and differ from the type approval for that vehicle before they modify it?

Do they employ engineers to test the reactions that these modifications are likely to have when they are using them to display to the other Novaboys?

I think I know the answers.


Even the introduction of a small steering wheel can have an adverse effect on the handling because of the increased amount of strength required to hold onto it if it starts to go out of control.

They know not what they do when some of these are modified in the ways they are.

Look at formula racing teams and the amount of money they spend on minor modifications to their vehicles so they perform better but above all, stay on the track whilst they are doing it.

[CB-Dave]

Granted a lot of 17 year olds (or whatever) do buy a nova and rice it up to hell (washerjet neons, ground effect neons, tailpipe trims (or a peco big bore! ooo!) but for every one of those type, there is an enthusiast who doesn't want to do anything but make their car better and show it off.

People you see doing e-brake turns and wheelspins/burnouts etc (yaaah look at me vapourise my kwik fit specials!) are NOT enthusiasts - they are twt's and if you talked to an enthusiast - they would become very defensive at that point. We don't like them being there but the whole idea of cruising is unfortunately seen as anti-social and illegal. When in actual fact, the ways of the minority predjudice the majority into tarring us all with the same brush.

Most cruisers who take care of their car would prefer meets to be held way out of town, where there's no-one for miles around etc, but sadly that doesn't happen. We've had local police saying they're happy for it to continue as long as we self-police the events, however if we see someone who is acting about, we can't do anything physical to them - and who is gonna pay attention to someone saying "Oi you, stop it"

It's a double edged sword tbh, avon and somerset constb. have outlawed it - some other constb's don't mind as long as it's a civil gathering. Some public opinion says it's all good fun, some say we're the scum of the earth.

Still, what can you do? It's been around since the 50's, and I can't see it stopping right now. I don't mean that in a defiant way but it appears that the wagon will keep on rollin'!

[CB-Dave]

How many of them understand about things like
1. Centre point steering,
2. Castor angle,
3. Camber angle,
4. King pin inclination,
5. Ackerman angle,
6. Tyre slip angle,

Quite a few enthusiasts do.

Everyone knows that lowering a car will force more camber on the wheel, therefore you install adjustable top mounts to counteract it, camber kits for the rear end, poly bushes etc etc.

For every modification that will impair the handling of a car, there is a modification that will bring it back into line.

I use the term enthusiast to distinguish between 'boy racer scum' and 'genuine car bod'. I'd say everyone who posts on here is an enthuisast, granted - not everyone who posts on cruising websites is, but they actively learn.

Your point about the steering wheel etc - yes, smaller wheels do reduce the steering ratio, and therefore a smaller input will result in a larger output however people don't purposely get their cars into a state. If your ordinary joe on the street driver hit black ice (for arguments sake) and your average enthusiast with a modified car did, the result would be the same - totalled car, and a grinning insurance man.

You have to admit that properly looked after, enthusiast modified cars are, for a fair percentage of the time, more road legal than mr blogg's banger. It's cause and effect really, the cause being stopchecked all the time, the effect being one uber-legal automobile.

I fully respect your arguments, however generalisation doesn't work when there is such a difference of a: modification quality, b: driver knowledge, c: driver mechanical knowledge and d: police attitude.

[madcop]

The problem with modification of vehicles is that all vehicles that are manufactured have to pass type approval before they are allowed to be built.

That is the manufacturer submits the complete concept vehicle specification to the Dept of Transport who test the various aspects of the design and then approve it if it is safe.

Once type approval has been issued to that particular model, it is allowed to be manufactured.
Every mass production vehicle (including the top marques) are subject to this.

The Johnny Novaboy comes along with a GCSE in R.E. and woodwork with an apprenticeship at the local exhaust centre with wild ideas about making the Mota faster and more pleasing on the eye.

Spacers on the wheels, wider wheels than it is designed for make him/her think that it will hold the road better.
This does nothing but alters critical design angles within the steering and suspension parts of type approval.

All the above angles in the post I posted above can be affected by modification to th wheels and suspension.
Any of these alone can lead to handling difficulties if things start to get on the ragged edge.

I have policed many of these meets. I agree there are a lot of enthusiasts and at some very many nice people too. However, a lot get to the ragged edge. Even those that spend considerable amounts on the carriage they so adore.

Modifications to steering, brakes and suspension should only be done with the guidance of the manufacturer that built the vehicle.
Not on the whim of Jonny Novaboy because it looks good.

[madcop]

C-Bdave.

You are obviously one of the rare breed that is a proper bona-fide enthusiast. You will agree that there are a lot of modified cars at these meets.

The sorts of people that are attracted to them are not those that earn huge salaries, as is the sorts of vehicles that appear on the scene. If they were in the sort of earnings bracket that would afford them these luxuries, they would not be p1ssing around with mark V Golfs and the like.

There are very few people that attend these meets that spend the amounts of money on their vehicles that you obviously do to make them safe after modification.
Or in my experience, have the knowledge to do so themselves.

[CB-Dave]

Very true, I do understand that you change your suspension components etc that you do stuff up handling on the ragged edge.

The thing is, if modifications are carried out properly - ie having the car laser tracked, geometry re-set by the manufacturer after the modification has been done, then I don't see the problem.

Coupled with the fact that the enthusiast (not johnny novaboy) is more likely to never ever rag their car after slewing £x amount of money into it.

I'm not saying "accidents never happen" as that is obviously not the case, and I'm fully aware that putting a big engine into a little car will not only compromise the handling of it - but also the stability in an accident (crumple zones, forcing the engine down rather than into the passenger compartment etc) however modified cars with larger brakes will stop (or be able to avoid) in time to negate a risk of an accident (with a sufficiently specced up driver behind the wheel)

It's just a pity that everyone sees modified car owners as 'novaboys' when we aren't! honest guv! - we hate the nobbers as much as the police do, yet we try to do something about it but due to the letter of the law, we simply can't.

[madcop]

Were still mates then C-BDave

[CB-Dave]

Madcop: if I had my (financial) way I'd have myself a 205 T16, no mk 5 golfs please!

I do understand your point that there is a very wide range of both mechanical skill and general knowledge, ranging from johnny novaboy to the diehard enthusiast who can recite the metric and AF equivalent of every single bolt on his car. Most of the time when we all meet up, there are one or two people there who are a bit behind on what they really should know about modifications and implications of those modifications but most of the time they hang around and start to understand more.

I've heard of people simply wanting uprated suspension 'because it makes the car look cool' - when they don't understand the enormous implications it could have to the drivability (and more importantly tractability) of their car.

Still, it's a learning thing more than anything else - all the public perspective media stuff I've seen about crusing has dealt with the negative side of it, and that is unfortunately giving most people the wrong impression. We aren't all a bunch of novaboys! but as the saying goes 'bad sht sticks!' so what can we do?