Accused of careless/not stopping - what happens from here?

[kiethton]

Received a letter though the post yesterday (form 963) requesting details of the rider of my motorbike re. Fail to stop and careless driving.

I know what this likely relates to - on the date in question a elderly (60ish) woman (black, wearing all black) ran from behind a stopped bus (50 yards between 2 separate pedestrian crossings) in front of me when riding in normal flowing traffic. My inclination was she was likely trying to get the bus immediately behind me. Owing to her being all black, it being dark, oncoming headlights, poor street lighting and light drizzle she was near invisible until right in front of me. I anchored on and somehow avoided her as she fell and face planted the road.

I stopped and called an ambulance as she'd cut her lip. When the ambiance said they'd be at least 45 mins I carried on to work.

Issue is the forms have the option of naming a driver for a collision - there was none, she fell over in front of me so I can't answer that section - or saying where I was at the time given (likely about 3 miles down the road on my way to work as the time is after I'd left).

I know I have to fill in the form else face 6 points - I can't fill in the first bit as nothing happened and I'd otherwise be implicating myself so leaning toward the second, as I was 3 miles away (which isn't untrue) at the time given.

Issue is what happens from here. Obviously I'm not at fault and have not had an accident but how best do I tell the police (and the woman by proxy) to go away forcefully?

[bigothunter]

In light of this relatively new Hierarchy of Road Users (pedestrians are the most vulnerable), getting legal advice could be a wise move.

[BertBert]

kiethton said:

Obviously I'm not at fault and have not had an accident but how best do I tell the police (and the woman by proxy) to go away forcefully?

Obviously you can't do that. All you can do is to tell them the facts so they can determine whether you were at fault or not - from that and any further info they might ask for.

[kiethton]

Yeah I get that i'm going to have to fill out the form, likely a step ahead of myself as I'm thinking to do nothing more than that at this stage.

Obviously I don't want this woman trying to scam me, even after stopping to help when I had zero obligation to do so.

I'm also rather time (and cash) limited atm (60-70 hours in the office, wife in zero pay maternity, house under refurb, the charity I chair hitting reporting/bumps and a 10m old baby) so need this to just go away.

I do tend to over-think things but my next risk is them then trying to organise a voluntary interview? - I can't see a time that diaries will align/they'll just try and ask loaded questions. After that it's the insurance company - they need to be kept well away (after all nothing happened) as I can barely afford the £3k pa total motor insurance premiums as it is.

Edited by kiethton on Thursday 8th February 12:59

[r3g]

kiethton said:

I do tend to over-think things but my next risk is them then trying to organise a voluntary interview

[youngsyr]

I'd just fill in the form with exactly what it asked for and nothing more, what else can you do?

[The Selfish Gene]

sounds to me like she will be looking for insurance and compensation route.

Why else would someone fall over and then go to the trouble to chase details down via the police.

[Big_Fluffy_One]

Legal cover on insurance?

[kiethton]

The Selfish Gene said:

sounds to me like she will be looking for insurance and compensation route.

Why else would someone fall over and then go to the trouble to chase details down via the police.

This is my risk (that I can't afford - our motor insurance total is over £3k a year) and why I've got such a foxtrot Oscar attitude - all I did was avoid a potential accident of her own making and help her after that!

Don't get me wrong it was close but there is no way a motorbike can hit 80kg of what's basically fridge feeezer and stay upright without a mark to the bodywork, a mark to the 3 year old layer of dirt or without moving the mirrors (which I swear could be moved by a strong fart)

[CHLEMCBH]

Send the form back with a covering letter giving your version of events.

[DaveH23]

kiethton said:

Issue is the forms have the option of naming a driver for a collision - there was none, she fell over in front of me so I can't answer that section

Sounds like the collision was between her face and road.

Explain you witnessed an elderly lady have an accident, you stopped to check if she was ok and subsequently called an ambulance. You then left as there was nothing more you could do.

As others have said, all you can do is fill in the form and send it back. Perhaps send an accompanying letter explaining you were a witness, not involved.

[bigothunter]

Vulnerable road user (pedestrian) sustained minor injuries (inc cut lip). Perhaps I'm just pessimistic, but the outcome of this case will be interesting.





Off-topic but related. After digging around, just discovered this new rule:

Cars indicating to turn left or right must give way to cyclists coming from behind and going straight on

Didn't realise that before and could have been caught out. Thanks OP for the inspiration

[Pica-Pica]

The 60ish = elderly is my contentious issue.

[bigothunter]

Pica-Pica said:

The 60ish = elderly is my contentious issue.

Over 65 is geriatric territory

[qwerty360]

youngsyr said:

I'd just fill in the form with exactly what it asked for and nothing more, what else can you do?

This.

It isn't unreasonable for someone to be at fault when they weren't directly involved in a collision - If you hit a kerb/hedge avoiding a driver doing something stupid, don't you think they should be held liable; Not allowing people who caused a collision to be held liable provides motivation against trying to take evasive action (If I swerve into the footway to avoid the head on from the car when cycling then I will have to pay for resulting damage to my bike vs rolling over bonnet...). So there is something for the police/insurers/courts to consider.



In addition to filling in paperwork, I would be writing down now your view on what happened, as well as why you think you didn't need to give details to police/other party (ped fell because they were running in front of you; your only involvement was avoiding the collision from them running out in front).

[simon_harris]

My son had something similar recently where he received a S172 for failing to report a collision, there was no collision and it was someone trying on after a bit of handbags at some traffic lights. He spoke to the reporting officer explain his version of events, she checked local traffic cameras etc and said don't worry no further action.

so TLDR see if you can speak to the reporting officer.

[martinbiz]

kiethton said:

This is my risk (that I can't afford - our motor insurance total is over £3k a year) and why I've got such a foxtrot Oscar attitude - all I did was avoid a potential accident of her own making and help her after that!

Don't get me wrong it was close but there is no way a motorbike can hit 80kg of what's basically fridge feeezer and stay upright without a mark to the bodywork, a mark to the 3 year old layer of dirt or without moving the mirrors (which I swear could be moved by a strong fart)

At the moment the most important thing you need to do is fill in the part of the form asking for the drivers details, this is a legal requirement under S172 of the RTA if you don't then your are likely to be prosecuted for failing to give information which is 6 points and a large fine, it is also a very insurance unfriendly offence to have on your licence. there is no need to offer any explanations or deny or admit anything at this point

[OverSteery]

kiethton said:

Obviously I'm not at fault

I am no expert, but although you may well not be at fault, I don't think that is obvious.

There does not need to be impact for you to cause an accident. If you were failing to take sensible care and suitable speed when passing a stationary bus where pedestrians could reasonably be expected, then you may bear some responsibility.

ISTR that when an ambulance is required, regardless of fault, a vehicle's insurer will pay for it? This may apply here, even though no contact was made.

[LordBretSinclair]

bigothunter said:

In light of this relatively new Hierarchy of Road Users (pedestrians are the most vulnerable), getting legal advice could be a wise move.

Certainly a wiser move than asking the armchair experts on here.

[kiethton]

OverSteery said:

kiethton said:

Obviously I'm not at fault

I am no expert, but although you may well not be at fault, I don't think that is obvious.

There does not need to be impact for you to cause an accident. If you were failing to take sensible care and suitable speed when passing a stationary bus where pedestrians could reasonably be expected, then you may bear some responsibility.

ISTR that when an ambulance is required, regardless of fault, a vehicle's insurer will pay for it? This may apply here, even though no contact was made.

I was in a row of decently-spaced free flowing traffic. The stopped bus was oncoming, the vehicle immediately behind me was another bus. There was a pedestrian crossing 50 yards away (in either direction). I saw the shadow waiting for the van in front, next thing I know she's there in front of me, falling over.

I avoided the collision (still not sure how, thank god this bike has ABS). The issue is one of her own making.