My Day in Court
Discussion
Well it was D Day today and I was in court for the 102.6 mph on the M5 at 2am on Sunday back in July, which some of you might remember.
Just wanted to let you know my thoughts from a first time defendants POV. The hearing took place in Telford Magistrates court for West Mercia.
I arrived about an hour before I was due up and immediatley asked to see the Duty solicitor as I had elected to not take any of my own representation. The reason being was that I had put down some words on paper and wanted them to see them to see of they were appropriate for this bench. The general gist being that I was sorry, I understood the offence and that there was no excuse for doing this speed, I did offer though that it was clear and there was very light traffic. I then went on to explain that I ran my own business and that I needed the car to continue my business.
The Duty Solicitor who was exceedingly helpful explained that it was likely that I was going to get a ban as I had 6 points already and I would perhaps get 56 days and maybe 4 weeks if I was lucky. She also said that the court did not deal with many traffic offences, which surprised me. She then told me the bench were quite relaxed and would listen to what I had to say. Finally she thought it might be good to mention in was my first visit to a court.
After this meeting I had to wait for my name to be called and had the opportunity to sit outside the courtroom and watch the coming's and going's. At this point I was nervous but not too bad. There were numerous muppets in before me all dressed in tracky bottoms and shell suits. Made me glad that I had put the whistsle on
My case was due at 11 but it was becoming increasingly apparent that I was going to have to wait for a while.
I waited and waited and after about 5 cases I was the only one left in the waiting room and it was about 12.50, I knew they adjourned for lunch at 1pm , and was desparate to get it all over with. Thankfully my name was called.
I went in on my own and was not shown by anyone where to sit and kind of looked confused at the Clerk who eventually pointed my to a seat, where I was told to stand. I was intially surprised by the number of people in the court room, asides from the Clerk and 3 magistrates there was at least another 8 people, the CPS guy was the only other one I could recognise. They then read out my name and the charge and asked for my plea, to which I replied Guilty. I have to say up to this point I was feeling quite relaxed, but then they asked for my response and I thought the whole room could hear my heartbeat, it was going through the roof
As I read out the statement I had made, my mouth seemed to become devoid of all moisture and you could have struck a match off my tounge! I managed to blurt it all out but did it really quickly, I was hoping it sounded as sincere as I had written it, time would tell.
When I finished my piece, they all were staring at me , and then the clerk started asking questions about how much I needed my licence, I re affirmed what I had written, that as it was my business that it was crucial that I kept my licence and any ban for a signifcant period of time would cause me a problem as only myself and my wife currently work for it. The bench then mentioned that I had six points already and this went down like the proverbial lead ballon. I though I was done for, I was also surprised that the time of me being caught and the light traffice seemed to make no difference at all! At this point I was begining to get concerned.
She then pointed in the diection of the stand and asked me to walk over. This caught me by complete surprise! I had not expected this, I was then asked to swear an oath, well if my heart wasn't beating at it's fullest it was now! But it was OK, they basically asked me a load of the same questions, the best ones being. Could you use public transport?
& and even better . Could you afford to hire a chauffer for the period of the ban. I explained that in the current Telecoms market my business was struggling to sustain my current outgoings! Valid questions I know, but I kind of had to laugh inside.
The questioning came to an end and I was told to sit down , while the magistrates confered (sp). After a minute they said they had made a descision and that they excepted my pleas of hardship and consequently would not be banning me
However they were giving me 6 points and a fine of £230. They then went on to say that I should take it very easy from no on as if I was to get so much as a point I would be back for Totting and would be looking at a 6 month ban, no excuses and no hardships would be accepted. I said thankyou, I understand and that was it free to go.
Now in retrospect I suppose no ban is good, and I am grateful as I can continue my business and go about my normal life. Until next August when I lose one lot of points it's going to be grit your teeth time. I'll also be investing in a Geodysey and a Laser Jammer to add to the Snooper. I guess in all, this is good for them, as I now cannot even dare to speed whereas a short ban, allbeit would have caused work related problems , might still have caused me to speed.
In all though a farily daunting experience, I don't think you need a brief at all, it was relitivley easy to make my own defence. I would however would liked to have known what was going to happen to me especially when I had to take the stand.
Fianlly thanks to those PH's (BobtheBench etc) who offered their advice last month and in July, it was very useful and no doubt if I wasn't armed with that info , today would have been much more nervewracking. Thanks.
simonm
Just wanted to let you know my thoughts from a first time defendants POV. The hearing took place in Telford Magistrates court for West Mercia.
I arrived about an hour before I was due up and immediatley asked to see the Duty solicitor as I had elected to not take any of my own representation. The reason being was that I had put down some words on paper and wanted them to see them to see of they were appropriate for this bench. The general gist being that I was sorry, I understood the offence and that there was no excuse for doing this speed, I did offer though that it was clear and there was very light traffic. I then went on to explain that I ran my own business and that I needed the car to continue my business.
The Duty Solicitor who was exceedingly helpful explained that it was likely that I was going to get a ban as I had 6 points already and I would perhaps get 56 days and maybe 4 weeks if I was lucky. She also said that the court did not deal with many traffic offences, which surprised me. She then told me the bench were quite relaxed and would listen to what I had to say. Finally she thought it might be good to mention in was my first visit to a court.
After this meeting I had to wait for my name to be called and had the opportunity to sit outside the courtroom and watch the coming's and going's. At this point I was nervous but not too bad. There were numerous muppets in before me all dressed in tracky bottoms and shell suits. Made me glad that I had put the whistsle on
My case was due at 11 but it was becoming increasingly apparent that I was going to have to wait for a while.
I waited and waited and after about 5 cases I was the only one left in the waiting room and it was about 12.50, I knew they adjourned for lunch at 1pm , and was desparate to get it all over with. Thankfully my name was called.
I went in on my own and was not shown by anyone where to sit and kind of looked confused at the Clerk who eventually pointed my to a seat, where I was told to stand. I was intially surprised by the number of people in the court room, asides from the Clerk and 3 magistrates there was at least another 8 people, the CPS guy was the only other one I could recognise. They then read out my name and the charge and asked for my plea, to which I replied Guilty. I have to say up to this point I was feeling quite relaxed, but then they asked for my response and I thought the whole room could hear my heartbeat, it was going through the roof
As I read out the statement I had made, my mouth seemed to become devoid of all moisture and you could have struck a match off my tounge! I managed to blurt it all out but did it really quickly, I was hoping it sounded as sincere as I had written it, time would tell.
When I finished my piece, they all were staring at me , and then the clerk started asking questions about how much I needed my licence, I re affirmed what I had written, that as it was my business that it was crucial that I kept my licence and any ban for a signifcant period of time would cause me a problem as only myself and my wife currently work for it. The bench then mentioned that I had six points already and this went down like the proverbial lead ballon. I though I was done for, I was also surprised that the time of me being caught and the light traffice seemed to make no difference at all! At this point I was begining to get concerned.
She then pointed in the diection of the stand and asked me to walk over. This caught me by complete surprise! I had not expected this, I was then asked to swear an oath, well if my heart wasn't beating at it's fullest it was now! But it was OK, they basically asked me a load of the same questions, the best ones being. Could you use public transport?
& and even better . Could you afford to hire a chauffer for the period of the ban. I explained that in the current Telecoms market my business was struggling to sustain my current outgoings! Valid questions I know, but I kind of had to laugh inside. The questioning came to an end and I was told to sit down , while the magistrates confered (sp). After a minute they said they had made a descision and that they excepted my pleas of hardship and consequently would not be banning me
However they were giving me 6 points and a fine of £230. They then went on to say that I should take it very easy from no on as if I was to get so much as a point I would be back for Totting and would be looking at a 6 month ban, no excuses and no hardships would be accepted. I said thankyou, I understand and that was it free to go. Now in retrospect I suppose no ban is good, and I am grateful as I can continue my business and go about my normal life. Until next August when I lose one lot of points it's going to be grit your teeth time. I'll also be investing in a Geodysey and a Laser Jammer to add to the Snooper. I guess in all, this is good for them, as I now cannot even dare to speed whereas a short ban, allbeit would have caused work related problems , might still have caused me to speed.
In all though a farily daunting experience, I don't think you need a brief at all, it was relitivley easy to make my own defence. I would however would liked to have known what was going to happen to me especially when I had to take the stand.
Fianlly thanks to those PH's (BobtheBench etc) who offered their advice last month and in July, it was very useful and no doubt if I wasn't armed with that info , today would have been much more nervewracking. Thanks.
simonm
Ive been driving on 9 points for over a year (just vanished 27/05/2002) and I must admit that having a combination of the Snooper 715i and the Origin BlueI GPS detector has saved my license AT LEAST 3 times over.
Am going for the SLD920 laser blinder. Im now down to 6 points (SP30) but im not going to let the f**kers do me for doing 32 in a 30 or something equally as stupid!
Glad to hear you kept your license. Well done dude.
Am going for the SLD920 laser blinder. Im now down to 6 points (SP30) but im not going to let the f**kers do me for doing 32 in a 30 or something equally as stupid!
Glad to hear you kept your license. Well done dude.
Simon
Thanks for sharing your experiences with us.
The best way to keep your license is to get a car with cruise control. I have had a number of "gadgets" and there is no surefire way of not getting caught. In the last fourteen months I've picked up two SP30s with a "safety partnership" using video camera guns.
In my automatic workhorse 70% of the time I am using cruise control causing a traffic jams, but fcuk em I'm a numpty! It also stops me getting depressed looking at my speedo. Especially when for 15 years previously I'd been travelling the same roads at 20mph quicker without incident, before limits are miraculously lowered to protect kids playing on A roads at 2am!
DAZ
Emigrant in waiting.
Thanks for sharing your experiences with us.
The best way to keep your license is to get a car with cruise control. I have had a number of "gadgets" and there is no surefire way of not getting caught. In the last fourteen months I've picked up two SP30s with a "safety partnership" using video camera guns.
In my automatic workhorse 70% of the time I am using cruise control causing a traffic jams, but fcuk em I'm a numpty! It also stops me getting depressed looking at my speedo. Especially when for 15 years previously I'd been travelling the same roads at 20mph quicker without incident, before limits are miraculously lowered to protect kids playing on A roads at 2am!
DAZ
Emigrant in waiting.
Interesting to hear your story, I'll be there myself soon. 
On 4 November I'll be in court for 101.3mph (how the fcuk can they be that precise - is there no error margin whatsoever, and measured over only 0.3 mile!) on NSL "A road" 60mph, so a little more over the limit - not sure what difference that makes but my solicitor has told to expect Max. up to 56 day ban, Min 6 pts + fine, probable somewhere in between I also have a business which is having a hard time and relies on me being able to drive etc so we'll see....
On the plus side I have no "valid" points on licence for totting up but 3 were current at time of the (alleged?) offence in fact they expired the day after (bugger!) and so will be considered.
Like you I have never been to court and after 24 years of being a law-abiding (ok maybe not with speed limits!), tax-paying, considerate motorist with NO speed related accidents am a "bit" pissed off at being treated like a criminal!
particularly as the punishment could have a serious effect on mine, and my families life, whilst the scrotes will simply laugh at their community service and carry on robbing etc as before.
I fear that my support for the police/courts will be seriously diminished by the affair.
Will keep you posted.
On 4 November I'll be in court for 101.3mph (how the fcuk can they be that precise - is there no error margin whatsoever, and measured over only 0.3 mile!) on NSL "A road" 60mph, so a little more over the limit - not sure what difference that makes but my solicitor has told to expect Max. up to 56 day ban, Min 6 pts + fine, probable somewhere in between I also have a business which is having a hard time and relies on me being able to drive etc so we'll see....
On the plus side I have no "valid" points on licence for totting up but 3 were current at time of the (alleged?) offence in fact they expired the day after (bugger!) and so will be considered.
Like you I have never been to court and after 24 years of being a law-abiding (ok maybe not with speed limits!), tax-paying, considerate motorist with NO speed related accidents am a "bit" pissed off at being treated like a criminal!
particularly as the punishment could have a serious effect on mine, and my families life, whilst the scrotes will simply laugh at their community service and carry on robbing etc as before. I fear that my support for the police/courts will be seriously diminished by the affair.
Will keep you posted.
cazzo said: Interesting to hear your story, I'll be there myself soon.
......
Like you I have never been to court and after 24 years of being a law-abiding (ok maybe not with speed limits!), tax-paying, considerate motorist with NO speed related accidents am a "bit" pissed off at being treated like a criminal!
I fear that my support for the police/courts will be seriously diminished by the affair.
Will keep you posted.
[rant]
Like you I've been driving for over 20 years without so much as a parking ticket, but that is not going to last in the current climate, there was even talk yesterday that if motorist slowed down it would lessen the impact of the firemans strike
Your post pretty well sums up the silent majorities attitude to all this. Unfortunately the dimwits that run the country seem to listen to those who shout the loudest, irrespective of right or wrong.
What ever happened to the British sense of justice and fair play
boy it's needed now to turn deaf ear and just smile back at the screaming liberal assh*les who seem to hold sway via the media. [/rant]
Harry
Interesting to hear of your 'day out'. I've been in a similar situation twice now.
The first time was when I was young and foolish - I had picked up 3 points for doing about 94 on the M18 and thought the police would be satisfied. About half an hour later I was pulled again at 118! I know it was stupid, but I was 18 at the time so I didn't learn the lesson.
Went to court, pleaded guilty and took the one month ban I blatently deserved. As I was a student the court took pity on me and only fined me a hundred quid - result!
Managed to evade the lasers for a couple of years until I got zapped going fairly quickly on the M5. Luckily they got me at 'only' 111, but I consulted a soliciter who suggested that in court I should point out an event about three weeks away that I would need to be able to drive for. The thinking behind this was to effectively offer the court the chance to ban me for a short period rather than give out a dangerously high number of points which could be totted up to a much longer ban should I be stopped for something minor in the future.
Ended up with two weeks and eighty quid - another result!
More recently I was followed by an unmarked car at betwen 90 and 135 long enough for them to officially clock me at 99.8. Expected another trip to court (do not pass go...) but to my surprise got 3 points and 60 quid, even though they saw and commented on my previous sp50s. (I was only doing what it says on my license, Officer - tear down the dotted line!)
Still haven't learned my lesson, but am much more observant on the roads now.
>> Edited by njmuk on Wednesday 23 October 23:40
The first time was when I was young and foolish - I had picked up 3 points for doing about 94 on the M18 and thought the police would be satisfied. About half an hour later I was pulled again at 118! I know it was stupid, but I was 18 at the time so I didn't learn the lesson.
Went to court, pleaded guilty and took the one month ban I blatently deserved. As I was a student the court took pity on me and only fined me a hundred quid - result!
Managed to evade the lasers for a couple of years until I got zapped going fairly quickly on the M5. Luckily they got me at 'only' 111, but I consulted a soliciter who suggested that in court I should point out an event about three weeks away that I would need to be able to drive for. The thinking behind this was to effectively offer the court the chance to ban me for a short period rather than give out a dangerously high number of points which could be totted up to a much longer ban should I be stopped for something minor in the future.
Ended up with two weeks and eighty quid - another result!
More recently I was followed by an unmarked car at betwen 90 and 135 long enough for them to officially clock me at 99.8. Expected another trip to court (do not pass go...) but to my surprise got 3 points and 60 quid, even though they saw and commented on my previous sp50s. (I was only doing what it says on my license, Officer - tear down the dotted line!)
Still haven't learned my lesson, but am much more observant on the roads now.
>> Edited by njmuk on Wednesday 23 October 23:40
Yeah court is scary, but if you play it smooth, wear a suit & sound more intelligent than the average shellsuit wearer then you're laughing.
Unmarked cars are like invisible gatso's. What's the deterrant factor? the "dangerous speeding" has already been done, but if it was a hi-vis car, you wouldn't have been speeding?
C
Unmarked cars are like invisible gatso's. What's the deterrant factor? the "dangerous speeding" has already been done, but if it was a hi-vis car, you wouldn't have been speeding?
C
hertsbiker said: Yeah court is scary, but if you play it smooth, wear a suit & sound more intelligent than the average shellsuit wearer then you're laughing.
Unmarked cars are like invisible gatso's. What's the deterrant factor? the "dangerous speeding" has already been done, but if it was a hi-vis car, you wouldn't have been speeding?
C
Unmaked cars used to be out there to take out the reckless/dangerous driver (overtakes on curves, tailgating, agression etc) - now they are just another revenue raiser, targeting speeders IMO. Hi-vis cars do have an effect on traffic flow - they tend to hold it up! Sorry, but thats true - driving standards may improve in the vicinity of a patrol car, but the congestion is increased - especially on Mways.
Oh, and congrats on the result in court - the system can be beaten if you're prepared to work at it.
I've got no wish to go to court - currently sitting on 9 points and about 8 weeks til I lose 6 of em. You can bet the my eyes are peeled when I'm out and about. Luckily, although I do about 4000 miles a month, its over the same roads, so the only way I'm gonna get nabbed is by a mobile unit or a sharpshooter.
But my AVERAGE speed is only 44 mph. Is that a valid defence I wonder?? 
But I can't drive slowly...... I've tried n tried n tried, but you fall asleep mooching along behind someone at 45... especially when you've got a 300 mile journey to do. Driving more quickly, but observantly is safer for me. No apologies for exceeding the NSL, and even some limits in urban areas (dual carriageway 30 mph anyone??), but I slow down for bends (something the 45mphers dont do), don't overtake at junctions, am aware of other traffic etc etc etc. And a ban would decimate me - no way I could get to work, no way I could get to see my kids. Horrible thought. But I still cant drive within the artificially low limits on NSL roads.
simonm - you are going to have to bite the bullet and keep under all the speed limits until AUg next year. Thats what I would be forced to do. Painful but not as painful as being banned.
I think you were luck not to be automatically banned as over a ton. ( not saying that would be fair)
I wouldnt get all the electo gizmoz as they will encourage you to speed and take a chance. When you come down on the point scale then yes get the lot but as you only have 1 point left- dont take a/any chances.
If I lost my licence my business would be up the creak, so I keep under the ton and within 25-30 of NSL. The consequences force me to be careful.
If I got points then I would have to lower my speed to ensure Im not banned.
njmuk- You have been so lucky. Keep under 100
I think you were luck not to be automatically banned as over a ton. ( not saying that would be fair)
I wouldnt get all the electo gizmoz as they will encourage you to speed and take a chance. When you come down on the point scale then yes get the lot but as you only have 1 point left- dont take a/any chances.
If I lost my licence my business would be up the creak, so I keep under the ton and within 25-30 of NSL. The consequences force me to be careful.
If I got points then I would have to lower my speed to ensure Im not banned.
njmuk- You have been so lucky. Keep under 100
Today I went to court for doing 100MPH in a 60 zone.
Got off pretty lightly I think- 28day ban £270 fine and £35 costs.
Although an inconvenience, this is better than 9 points- would get a ban next time I took the bike out, due to noisy pipe and black visor!
Heres to a month of taxi`s, lifts and much beer!
Got off pretty lightly I think- 28day ban £270 fine and £35 costs.
Although an inconvenience, this is better than 9 points- would get a ban next time I took the bike out, due to noisy pipe and black visor!
Heres to a month of taxi`s, lifts and much beer!
wouldnt get all the electo gizmoz as they will encourage you to speed and take a chance. When you come down on the point scale then yes get the lot but as you only have 1 point left- dont take a/any chances.
NO. Get them NOW. If I was rich enough, I'd buy them for you and you could pay me back in a year. That is how important they are.
NOW. BUY NOW. Feel safer. NOW. Please do it.
Carl.
Glad to know I was of some help, however little. Model behaviour though on your part, treat us like idiots, we'll respond. A bit of respect and dignity all round, and lesson learned without the need for DQ. One possible word of caution, don't rely on technology. You can't argue exceptional harship again, a single point and your licence will become as rare as rocking horse shit. For a couple of months at least stick to th limit. OK so Ladas overtake you with ease, on the downhills at least. You have the consolation that you beat the system, don't spoil it !!!
PS to Cazzo - you broke the speed limit, you are a criminal, that's why you are treated like one.
PS to Cazzo - you broke the speed limit, you are a criminal, that's why you are treated like one.
I agree with hertsbiker on the gadget thing. I have spent nearly £700 squid so far and am about to spend another £250 on a jammer etc.
I dont care how much I give to companies to buy this stuff, as long as those f**kheads in gwent etc dont get it! As far as im concerned im financing the good guys at the moment.
I dont care how much I give to companies to buy this stuff, as long as those f**kheads in gwent etc dont get it! As far as im concerned im financing the good guys at the moment.
PS to Cazzo - you broke the speed limit, you are a criminal, that's why you are treated like one.
Well you've got a point but that makes criminals out of the vast majority of drivers and I believe that the majority of adults are drivers, so that means that the majority of the country are criminals
, including Police officers, judges etc and I'm not even going to mention politicians as they are all lying, cheating two-face scum IMO (my apologies to any one-faced honest politicians out there!
) Just remember that when the police are asking for help from the public that there are more and more who will think "fcuk'em" simply because of how they have been treated by the system.
Edited to add:
BTW It's funny what constitutes a "crime" not too long ago we had "deristricted" roads with no limits, Drug-taking was illegal as was Homosexuality, now speeding is a crime, drug-taking is a "non-crime" and Homosexuality is positively encouraged - makes you wonder where this country is going.....
>> Edited by cazzo on Friday 25th October 21:01
BTW It's funny what constitutes a "crime" not too long ago we had "deristricted" roads with no limits, Drug-taking was illegal as was Homosexuality, now speeding is a crime, drug-taking is a "non-crime" and Homosexuality is positively encouraged - makes you wonder where this country is going.....
Its going very slow, mellow and gay I imagine....!
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