Can I make a civil claim for a slow investigation?

Can I make a civil claim for a slow investigation?

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ED209

Original Poster:

5,854 posts

251 months

Sunday 2nd April 2023
quotequote all
So without going into specifics of a case.

If I am the victim of a crime that is a summary only offence with a six month time limit for prosecutions and I report it and provide the police with a full bundle of evidence with five months of that time still to go however for no good reason they carry out an extremely slow investigation into the simple matter that results in no prosecution taking place because the statutory time limit has passed would it be possible to make a civil claim against the police?

I think I am about to find myself in this situation and due to the police’s failure to conduct a timely investigation my families live will be continue to be negatively impacted on by the behaviour of the offender. Don’t get me wrong I would rather not get involved in such a course of action but having been repeatedly failed by my local constabulary I can’t see what else I can do?

It’s pointless making a complaint because all that will happen is the investigating officer will just end up with management action and we will still be in the same position. I have raised the time limit issue with the officers supervisors several times over the last few months and have been assured this situation would not arise but it has.

martinbiz

3,369 posts

152 months

Sunday 2nd April 2023
quotequote all
ED209 said:
So without going into specifics of a case.

If I am the victim of a crime that is a summary only offence with a six month time limit for prosecutions and I report it and provide the police with a full bundle of evidence with five months of that time still to go however for no good reason they carry out an extremely slow investigation into the simple matter that results in no prosecution taking place because the statutory time limit has passed would it be possible to make a civil claim against the police?

I think I am about to find myself in this situation and due to the police’s failure to conduct a timely investigation my families live will be continue to be negatively impacted on by the behaviour of the offender. Don’t get me wrong I would rather not get involved in such a course of action but having been repeatedly failed by my local constabulary I can’t see what else I can do?

It’s pointless making a complaint because all that will happen is the investigating officer will just end up with management action and we will still be in the same position. I have raised the time limit issue with the officers supervisors several times over the last few months and have been assured this situation would not arise but it has.
Maybe they feel your evidence alone isn't sufficient to proceed. What was the alleged offence?

Tribal Chestnut

3,001 posts

189 months

Sunday 2nd April 2023
quotequote all
martinbiz said:
Maybe they feel your evidence alone isn't sufficient to proceed. What was the alleged offence?
Surely that would have been communicated, instead of telling him the situation would not arise?

ED209

Original Poster:

5,854 posts

251 months

Sunday 2nd April 2023
quotequote all
martinbiz said:
Maybe they feel your evidence alone isn't sufficient to proceed. What was the alleged offence?
Not at all, the case is currently with the CPS for a charging decision, it was only sent to them on the 22nd March and they subsequently asked the officer in the case for further information after reviewing the file. The offence is harassment without fear of violence

The issue is that the police were provided with statements/CCTV/audio recordings in mid November, the suspect was arrested and interviewed in the first week of December and it then takes the police over 3 months to send the case to the CPS meaning that the suspect is now due to answer bail exactly on the six month anniversary of some of the offending. Despite me asking the officer in the case for updates several times and reminding them of the statutory time limits a couple of times nobody appears to have given the case any urgency.

Being familiar with CPS charging standards I am convinced there is clearly enough evidence to prosecute however I now believe that this wont happen due to the unacceptable delay.

A charge is important to my family as it might address behaviour which is having an impact on our family life and it will open the door to other civil remedies to deal with the perpetrator.

Richard-D

1,003 posts

71 months

Sunday 2nd April 2023
quotequote all
It's pretty clear what incident he's talking about here.

An employee of the company threatened the OP with a handgun. He warned the employee to put the weapon down and gave him 20 seconds notice. When the employee failed to put the weapon down he took action. The MD's account differs and there has been an investigation into his actions which didn't go as he expected.

OP - just relax a bit in teambuilding situations at work mate and these things won't happen.

Voldemort

6,582 posts

285 months

Sunday 2nd April 2023
quotequote all
Write to your MP. Seriously. He/she will ask the police what they're doing and they will have to provide a substantive response.

Racing Newt

1,233 posts

212 months

Sunday 2nd April 2023
quotequote all
This of interest to me as i have been involved in what maybe a similar scenario except with my situation the CPS case was, in my opinion lacking an immense amount of cctv evidence, and a witness statement which was ignored/not taken up, by the police/CPS, and the mysterious departure of the officer who took up the case for me.
I am considering initiating a compliant against the police and the CPS, but not sure where to begin.

stemll

4,283 posts

207 months

Sunday 2nd April 2023
quotequote all
Richard-D said:
It's pretty clear what incident he's talking about here.

An employee of the company threatened the OP with a handgun. He warned the employee to put the weapon down and gave him 20 seconds notice. When the employee failed to put the weapon down he took action. The MD's account differs and there has been an investigation into his actions which didn't go as he expected.

OP - just relax a bit in teambuilding situations at work mate and these things won't happen.
biggrin

Mojooo

13,020 posts

187 months

Sunday 2nd April 2023
quotequote all
I am going to say no...the reason being is that the Police are not under a duty to prosecute anything as far as I am aware. That is why they can prioritise what they deal with.

LosingGrip

7,964 posts

166 months

Monday 3rd April 2023
quotequote all
ED209 said:
Not at all, the case is currently with the CPS for a charging decision, it was only sent to them on the 22nd March and they subsequently asked the officer in the case for further information after reviewing the file. The offence is harassment without fear of violence

The issue is that the police were provided with statements/CCTV/audio recordings in mid November, the suspect was arrested and interviewed in the first week of December and it then takes the police over 3 months to send the case to the CPS meaning that the suspect is now due to answer bail exactly on the six month anniversary of some of the offending. Despite me asking the officer in the case for updates several times and reminding them of the statutory time limits a couple of times nobody appears to have given the case any urgency.

Being familiar with CPS charging standards I am convinced there is clearly enough evidence to prosecute however I now believe that this wont happen due to the unacceptable delay.

A charge is important to my family as it might address behaviour which is having an impact on our family life and it will open the door to other civil remedies to deal with the perpetrator.
Whilst I can't help on your specific case. Its not as simple as sending it to the CPS. They want everything before they'll make a decision. It's basically a not guilty plea file...that includes disclosure and all sorts. Times that by 15/20 which is what is on some officers workloads on response (more if you are CID or an interview team). CPS will be aware of the time limit as well.

ED209

Original Poster:

5,854 posts

251 months

Monday 3rd April 2023
quotequote all
LosingGrip said:
Whilst I can't help on your specific case. Its not as simple as sending it to the CPS. They want everything before they'll make a decision. It's basically a not guilty plea file...that includes disclosure and all sorts. Times that by 15/20 which is what is on some officers workloads on response (more if you are CID or an interview team). CPS will be aware of the time limit as well.
I know all about what is required for a CPS file and about response officers workload, I also know they have supervisors who's job it is to make sure they have time to complete their workload in a timely fashion. The officer in the case has been aware of time limits for months because I have reminded him a few times, the local inspector has also been aware because again I have been in touch with him several times about the poor service we have received.

Another example of the file building incompetence is that my wife has advised the officer in the case twice that she has detailed contemporaneous notes in her diary about several relevant events, at the very least these are unused material and it could be argued that they should be an exhibit however the cop has not bothered to collect them or even ask for them to be electronically sent to him.

We are talking about a simple investigation here where the two civilian witnesses wrote their own statements, prepared the exhibits and gave them to the officer basically on a plate months ago, the suspect was arrested in December and by mid February her mobile phone which i believe will contain evidence still hadn't been looked at. The whole thing has been a shambles from start to finish and the final kick will be when the whole thing gets binned because the time limit has expired.

Simple things such as compliance with the victims codes of practice have been totally ignored and I have had to constantly chased updates.

I know rather a lot about response policing and he sort of investigations I am talking about and even though I have pushed for the kind of service that victims should get from the police the service has still been shambolic. I would hate to think what kind of service a member of the public who had no knowledge of how things should be done would get.

Bigends

5,674 posts

135 months

Monday 3rd April 2023
quotequote all
ED209 said:
LosingGrip said:
Whilst I can't help on your specific case. Its not as simple as sending it to the CPS. They want everything before they'll make a decision. It's basically a not guilty plea file...that includes disclosure and all sorts. Times that by 15/20 which is what is on some officers workloads on response (more if you are CID or an interview team). CPS will be aware of the time limit as well.
I know all about what is required for a CPS file and about response officers workload, I also know they have supervisors who's job it is to make sure they have time to complete their workload in a timely fashion. The officer in the case has been aware of time limits for months because I have reminded him a few times, the local inspector has also been aware because again I have been in touch with him several times about the poor service we have received.

Another example of the file building incompetence is that my wife has advised the officer in the case twice that she has detailed contemporaneous notes in her diary about several relevant events, at the very least these are unused material and it could be argued that they should be an exhibit however the cop has not bothered to collect them or even ask for them to be electronically sent to him.

We are talking about a simple investigation here where the two civilian witnesses wrote their own statements, prepared the exhibits and gave them to the officer basically on a plate months ago, the suspect was arrested in December and by mid February her mobile phone which i believe will contain evidence still hadn't been looked at. The whole thing has been a shambles from start to finish and the final kick will be when the whole thing gets binned because the time limit has expired.

Simple things such as compliance with the victims codes of practice have been totally ignored and I have had to constantly chased updates.

I know rather a lot about response policing and he sort of investigations I am talking about and even though I have pushed for the kind of service that victims should get from the police the service has still been shambolic. I would hate to think what kind of service a member of the public who had no knowledge of how things should be done would get.
Thats about spot on in relation to file prep and updates

Edited by Bigends on Monday 3rd April 10:00

KungFuPanda

4,450 posts

177 months

Monday 3rd April 2023
quotequote all
You can make a civil claim against whoever you like. Whether it’s successful or not is another matter.

Jonmx

2,663 posts

220 months

Monday 3rd April 2023
quotequote all
I'd hold your nose and have a chat with a solicitor that specialises in Police negligence if the window of prosecution is missed. It sounds like a Section with some issues has been handling it; a lazy plod with an inept supervisor. Workload reviews should be weekly and I'd be interested to see what updates etc have been put on the crime that warrant it taking so long to get to charge.
Alternatively, have a friendly chat with your 2 up or PSD to see what they suggest.

ED209

Original Poster:

5,854 posts

251 months

Monday 3rd April 2023
quotequote all
MrBogSmith said:
The civil claims process is hardly going to be the epitome of expedience.

I know you've said you don't want to make a complaint, but if your priority is getting things moving that'd seem the obvious starting place.
I honestly think that it’s too late to get things moving now. When the 16th April comes around I will be told the harassment offence is now time bared and no further action. This will result in the offender thinking she has gotten away with it and she can just continue her appalling behaviour with impunity. When she lives next door and is affecting the life of my family that’s quite a big issue.

Nibbles_bits

1,320 posts

46 months

Monday 3rd April 2023
quotequote all
  1. cutshaveconsequences
This is the problem when numbers are cut and response are expected to manage a workload.
At the extreme end of the scale, Sarah Everard might have been saved if this model wasn't being used


Remember when PCWs used to build files? That's the job of PC Plod now, aswell as responding to emergency calls and attending and investigating non-urgent calls.

How much file building can anyone be expected to do on a 5hr constant watch??

When you have a team of 25ish, but due to training, learning days, sickness, annual leave and secondments, only 13ish are available, sparing an Officer for a shift to build an NGAP file isn't possible.
It SHOULD be, but isn't.

I'll also point out - it might be worth nudging the OIC to ask for an extension. Due to very poor training, I didn't know this was possible until one of my investigations was about to expire.

Bigends

5,674 posts

135 months

Monday 3rd April 2023
quotequote all
Nibbles_bits said:
#cutshaveconsequences

This is the problem when numbers are cut and response are expected to manage a workload.
At the extreme end of the scale, Sarah Everard might have been saved if this model wasn't being used


Remember when PCWs used to build files? That's the job of PC Plod now, aswell as responding to emergency calls and attending and investigating non-urgent calls.

How much file building can anyone be expected to do on a 5hr constant watch??

When you have a team of 25ish, but due to training, learning days, sickness, annual leave and secondments, only 13ish are available, sparing an Officer for a shift to build an NGAP file isn't possible.
It SHOULD be, but isn't.

I'll also point out - it might be worth nudging the OIC to ask for an extension. Due to very poor training, I didn't know this was possible until one of my investigations was about to expire.
None of the above are any excuse for the service the OP's received. Simple updates can be sent in seconds at any time day or night via text or email.
The OIC's supervisor needs to get a grip of this one while theres still time.
Response have always carried workloads - thats certainly nothing new.

ED209

Original Poster:

5,854 posts

251 months

Monday 3rd April 2023
quotequote all
Nibbles_bits said:
#cutshaveconsequences

This is the problem when numbers are cut and response are expected to manage a workload.
At the extreme end of the scale, Sarah Everard might have been saved if this model wasn't being used


Remember when PCWs used to build files? That's the job of PC Plod now, aswell as responding to emergency calls and attending and investigating non-urgent calls.

How much file building can anyone be expected to do on a 5hr constant watch??

When you have a team of 25ish, but due to training, learning days, sickness, annual leave and secondments, only 13ish are available, sparing an Officer for a shift to build an NGAP file isn't possible.
It SHOULD be, but isn't.

I'll also point out - it might be worth nudging the OIC to ask for an extension. Due to very poor training, I didn't know this was possible until one of my investigations was about to expire.
He shouldn’t need an extension. He’s had 5 months to do what could have been done in a few days.

It’s his supervisors job to make him time to build the file. It’s needs to be done so make time for him.

ED209

Original Poster:

5,854 posts

251 months

Monday 3rd April 2023
quotequote all
ED209 said:
He shouldn’t need an extension. He’s had 5 months to do what could have been done in a few days.

It’s his supervisors job to make him time to build the file. It’s needs to be done so make time for him.
I know how it works as until a year ago I was the inspector for a response team of 50 PC’s and 6 Sgts. Supervision should be all over this especially given they know there’s an issue because I have made them aware of it and they know we are far from happy about the poor service

LosingGrip

7,964 posts

166 months

Monday 3rd April 2023
quotequote all
ED209 said:
I know all about what is required for a CPS file and about response officers workload, I also know they have supervisors who's job it is to make sure they have time to complete their workload in a timely fashion. The officer in the case has been aware of time limits for months because I have reminded him a few times, the local inspector has also been aware because again I have been in touch with him several times about the poor service we have received.

Another example of the file building incompetence is that my wife has advised the officer in the case twice that she has detailed contemporaneous notes in her diary about several relevant events, at the very least these are unused material and it could be argued that they should be an exhibit however the cop has not bothered to collect them or even ask for them to be electronically sent to him.

We are talking about a simple investigation here where the two civilian witnesses wrote their own statements, prepared the exhibits and gave them to the officer basically on a plate months ago, the suspect was arrested in December and by mid February her mobile phone which i believe will contain evidence still hadn't been looked at. The whole thing has been a shambles from start to finish and the final kick will be when the whole thing gets binned because the time limit has expired.

Simple things such as compliance with the victims codes of practice have been totally ignored and I have had to constantly chased updates.

I know rather a lot about response policing and he sort of investigations I am talking about and even though I have pushed for the kind of service that victims should get from the police the service has still been shambolic. I would hate to think what kind of service a member of the public who had no knowledge of how things should be done would get.
You sound like the perfect victim (if there is such a thing!)...basically done their job for them! No excuse from what you've said!