Chris Kaba Shooting
Discussion
The case of Chris Kaba, shot dead by a police officer has been referred to the Crown Prosecution Service.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-65123...
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-65123...
The IOPC will be unwilling to make a decision themselves on such a sensitive case and 'passing something to CPS' ultimately means they get the pass the buck for any future decision making. They are also not legally able to charge so this was ultimately going to be the outcome - evidence of an offence or not....
If the IOPC bin the case without going to CPS they will become the bad guys - this is a political hot potato and as such this is going to be their primary concern, especially with the recent 'issues' within the IOPC.
The possible outcomes.....
Outcome 1 - Case binned off by CPS - IOPC can state that they believed they had sufficient evidence to pass case to CPS (who are now the bad guys) - IOPC are the good guys
Outcome 2 - Sufficient Evidence - charges authorised - Court trial - Guilty - IOPC are the good guys
Outcome 3 - CPS panic - the evidence doesn't support a charge but they authorise charges as the buck is then passed to the judge and/or jury to make a decision - not guilty at court - IOPC are the good guys, they got it to court and a jury/ judge made the final decision
A common theme emerges...
Perhaps I'm cynical but I'm expecting Outcome 3 followed by an IOPC forced misconduct hearing (lower burden of proof) at the expense of the Met - they will go to town on an apparent breach of policy - the cop failed to wear his bullet proof socks or his watch was slow or similar and try for misconduct
There's nothing like two bites of the cherry....
Even if the cop is found to be squeeky clean they will be hounded left right and centre for the rest of their working life and well into retirement (a la Tony Long) with appeals, civil hearings and re-trials etc.
I wouldn't carry a gun for all the tea in China.
If the IOPC bin the case without going to CPS they will become the bad guys - this is a political hot potato and as such this is going to be their primary concern, especially with the recent 'issues' within the IOPC.
The possible outcomes.....
Outcome 1 - Case binned off by CPS - IOPC can state that they believed they had sufficient evidence to pass case to CPS (who are now the bad guys) - IOPC are the good guys
Outcome 2 - Sufficient Evidence - charges authorised - Court trial - Guilty - IOPC are the good guys
Outcome 3 - CPS panic - the evidence doesn't support a charge but they authorise charges as the buck is then passed to the judge and/or jury to make a decision - not guilty at court - IOPC are the good guys, they got it to court and a jury/ judge made the final decision
A common theme emerges...
Perhaps I'm cynical but I'm expecting Outcome 3 followed by an IOPC forced misconduct hearing (lower burden of proof) at the expense of the Met - they will go to town on an apparent breach of policy - the cop failed to wear his bullet proof socks or his watch was slow or similar and try for misconduct
There's nothing like two bites of the cherry....
Even if the cop is found to be squeeky clean they will be hounded left right and centre for the rest of their working life and well into retirement (a la Tony Long) with appeals, civil hearings and re-trials etc.
I wouldn't carry a gun for all the tea in China.
Yeah I’m surprised anyone decides to be a firearms officer with the way things go. I’m sure they don’t go out with the intention of finding a black person who they can shoot. It’s ok others saying they should’ve done this done that, but when in that situation and you have split seconds to make a choice then it’s not so simple.
But then it’s not just firearms officers, the police do anything and theirs uproar about being heavy handed and yet the scrotes can be as nasty and violent as they want against them.
But then it’s not just firearms officers, the police do anything and theirs uproar about being heavy handed and yet the scrotes can be as nasty and violent as they want against them.
P0PC0RN said:
The IOPC will be unwilling to make a decision themselves on such a sensitive case and 'passing something to CPS' ultimately means they get the pass the buck for any future decision making. They are also not legally able to charge so this was ultimately going to be the outcome - evidence of an offence or not....
If the IOPC bin the case without going to CPS they will become the bad guys - this is a political hot potato and as such this is going to be their primary concern, especially with the recent 'issues' within the IOPC.
The possible outcomes.....
Outcome 1 - Case binned off by CPS - IOPC can state that they believed they had sufficient evidence to pass case to CPS (who are now the bad guys) - IOPC are the good guys
Outcome 2 - Sufficient Evidence - charges authorised - Court trial - Guilty - IOPC are the good guys
Outcome 3 - CPS panic - the evidence doesn't support a charge but they authorise charges as the buck is then passed to the judge and/or jury to make a decision - not guilty at court - IOPC are the good guys, they got it to court and a jury/ judge made the final decision
A common theme emerges...
Perhaps I'm cynical but I'm expecting Outcome 3 followed by an IOPC forced misconduct hearing (lower burden of proof) at the expense of the Met - they will go to town on an apparent breach of policy - the cop failed to wear his bullet proof socks or his watch was slow or similar and try for misconduct
There's nothing like two bites of the cherry....
Even if the cop is found to be squeeky clean they will be hounded left right and centre for the rest of their working life and well into retirement (a la Tony Long) with appeals, civil hearings and re-trials etc.
I wouldn't carry a gun for all the tea in China.
Check out Sadiq Khan's tweet on the matter.....If the IOPC bin the case without going to CPS they will become the bad guys - this is a political hot potato and as such this is going to be their primary concern, especially with the recent 'issues' within the IOPC.
The possible outcomes.....
Outcome 1 - Case binned off by CPS - IOPC can state that they believed they had sufficient evidence to pass case to CPS (who are now the bad guys) - IOPC are the good guys
Outcome 2 - Sufficient Evidence - charges authorised - Court trial - Guilty - IOPC are the good guys
Outcome 3 - CPS panic - the evidence doesn't support a charge but they authorise charges as the buck is then passed to the judge and/or jury to make a decision - not guilty at court - IOPC are the good guys, they got it to court and a jury/ judge made the final decision
A common theme emerges...
Perhaps I'm cynical but I'm expecting Outcome 3 followed by an IOPC forced misconduct hearing (lower burden of proof) at the expense of the Met - they will go to town on an apparent breach of policy - the cop failed to wear his bullet proof socks or his watch was slow or similar and try for misconduct
There's nothing like two bites of the cherry....
Even if the cop is found to be squeeky clean they will be hounded left right and centre for the rest of their working life and well into retirement (a la Tony Long) with appeals, civil hearings and re-trials etc.
I wouldn't carry a gun for all the tea in China.
P0PC0RN said:
Chubbyross said:
Well that won’t jeopardise any future prosecution, will it! What a complete muppet she is.
I note that she's turned off the ability to comment on her tweets now...I think there is a lot of jumping to conclusions from people based on the person shot and the idea that the police must be good. The Met have a long and ignominious history of treating certain groups very poorly so when they pursue someone using an unmarked car without lights or siren and end up shooting them dead it’s right that it is thoroughly investigated.
We can’t live in a country where people are shot dead based on solely an ANPR marker so getting to the bottom of what happened and why is critical. I’m generally supportive of the police but the idea that incidents like this shouldn’t go through the full process is nonsense.
We can’t live in a country where people are shot dead based on solely an ANPR marker so getting to the bottom of what happened and why is critical. I’m generally supportive of the police but the idea that incidents like this shouldn’t go through the full process is nonsense.
A four-year term in a young offender institution for possession of a firearm with intent to cause fear of violence.
He sounded like he was a serious danger to the public.
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/chris-kaba-...
The media bashing plod at the moment will not help matters.
He sounded like he was a serious danger to the public.
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/chris-kaba-...
The media bashing plod at the moment will not help matters.
kestral said:
A four-year term in a young offender institution for possession of a firearm with intent to cause fear of violence.
He sounded like he was a serious danger to the public.
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/chris-kaba-...
The media bashing plod at the moment will not help matters.
But the officers didnt know who the driver was at the time - could have been anyone. He sounded like he was a serious danger to the public.
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/chris-kaba-...
The media bashing plod at the moment will not help matters.
The stop was based on the PNC marker - not who was driving the car
kestral said:
A four-year term in a young offender institution for possession of a firearm with intent to cause fear of violence.
He sounded like he was a serious danger to the public.
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/chris-kaba-...
The media bashing plod at the moment will not help matters.
Root cause of the problem is that Kaba, and many, many others, were never going to be productive members of society, so why does the justice system fail to punish, rehabilitate or deter so badly?He sounded like he was a serious danger to the public.
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/london/chris-kaba-...
The media bashing plod at the moment will not help matters.
I'm not sure anyone has jumped to any conclusions regarding who was right and who was wrong on this thread. I have jumped to my own (well informed) conclusions about the process involving the IOPC - it's poor and whilst it's only right the matter is investigated the cop involved has been treated appallingly by the press, politicians and a vocal section of the public.
Everyone wants a fair, transparent and fully informed inquest into Kaba's shooting by the Police - it's in the interests of everyone, even me as a police officer. There is no place for state sponsored executions or violence and we have all seen the damage and bloodshed caused by Police actions in the UK and overseas - lawful or otherwise.
Looking at your comment you have to picked up on the being pursued without blue lights but completely missed some of the other released information.
- Kaba was driving someone else's car which had been involved in a shooting/ firearms offence the previous day/s - who knows if he was involved but he was a convicted guns and gangs criminal who was previously jailed for a shooting. He would have been aware of the way Police will respond to armed crime.
- he's made off from the Police - the blue lights and sirens are arguably an irrelevance - there were marked cars present and he's reacted in a negative fashion- it's a car chase blues or not
- he's been boxed in and a load of uniformed police officers have jumped out of marked police cars in a lit up area and have pointed guns at him whilst shouting armed Police etc. He has then attempted to ram his way out which has ended up with him being shot once.
- witnesses have provided accounts and asked "why didn't he just give up/stop
- a car is a weapon and can be used to kill or maim. If Kaba, or anyone else, tries to drive out of a Police box in a big heavy 4x4 generally in the direction of a cop (who wants to go home at the end of their shift) who happens to be pointing a gun at the driver I would argue it's justified to discharge that firearm - there is nothing else available to Police that will stop a car immediately in those circumstances - our oath is to protect life and that includes our own - I would rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6
I would suggest he was shot dead because of the actions detailed above more than a ANPR marker.
I understand why it's repeatedly raised and clearly the Policing of the Black community (and other diverse communities) has been poor and rightly crisitised but I struggle to find a link (with what we know) between the shooting and his race - his behaviour on the other hand...
Everyone wants a fair, transparent and fully informed inquest into Kaba's shooting by the Police - it's in the interests of everyone, even me as a police officer. There is no place for state sponsored executions or violence and we have all seen the damage and bloodshed caused by Police actions in the UK and overseas - lawful or otherwise.
Looking at your comment you have to picked up on the being pursued without blue lights but completely missed some of the other released information.
- Kaba was driving someone else's car which had been involved in a shooting/ firearms offence the previous day/s - who knows if he was involved but he was a convicted guns and gangs criminal who was previously jailed for a shooting. He would have been aware of the way Police will respond to armed crime.
- he's made off from the Police - the blue lights and sirens are arguably an irrelevance - there were marked cars present and he's reacted in a negative fashion- it's a car chase blues or not
- he's been boxed in and a load of uniformed police officers have jumped out of marked police cars in a lit up area and have pointed guns at him whilst shouting armed Police etc. He has then attempted to ram his way out which has ended up with him being shot once.
- witnesses have provided accounts and asked "why didn't he just give up/stop
- a car is a weapon and can be used to kill or maim. If Kaba, or anyone else, tries to drive out of a Police box in a big heavy 4x4 generally in the direction of a cop (who wants to go home at the end of their shift) who happens to be pointing a gun at the driver I would argue it's justified to discharge that firearm - there is nothing else available to Police that will stop a car immediately in those circumstances - our oath is to protect life and that includes our own - I would rather be judged by 12 than carried by 6
I would suggest he was shot dead because of the actions detailed above more than a ANPR marker.
I understand why it's repeatedly raised and clearly the Policing of the Black community (and other diverse communities) has been poor and rightly crisitised but I struggle to find a link (with what we know) between the shooting and his race - his behaviour on the other hand...
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