The Police / Rant
Discussion
--RANT MODE ON--
I'm just going to have a quiet little rant about the Police now, so appologies to all BIB on the list ...
Yesterday my 17 year old nephew (nice lad, training to be a VW mechanic) was mugged .... held up at screwdriver-to-the-throat point and relinquished of his mobile, bit of cash, and his personal walkman.
To add injury to insult, the (older, bigger) bloke who held him up then proceeded to beat several shades of sh*t out of the poor lad, who's now bruised, battered, and feeling pretty sh*t.
This happened mere years from his own house, and the to**er who did this is well known in the local area (and only came out of jail a few months back).
When his mother rang the Police to report the incident, their attitude was unbelieveable ! They, quite literally, said "Well, what do you want us to do about it ?" CAN YOU BELIEVE THIS ???
What is the f**king point of having a Police force when a young lad gets the cr*p beaten out of him, and they DO NOT WANT TO KNOW !
F**king unbelieveable ..... just unbelievable ....
--RANT OFF--
(and no, I dont feel better for ranting either)
>>> Edited by nevpugh308 on Thursday 10th October 12:46
I'm just going to have a quiet little rant about the Police now, so appologies to all BIB on the list ...
Yesterday my 17 year old nephew (nice lad, training to be a VW mechanic) was mugged .... held up at screwdriver-to-the-throat point and relinquished of his mobile, bit of cash, and his personal walkman.
To add injury to insult, the (older, bigger) bloke who held him up then proceeded to beat several shades of sh*t out of the poor lad, who's now bruised, battered, and feeling pretty sh*t.
This happened mere years from his own house, and the to**er who did this is well known in the local area (and only came out of jail a few months back).
When his mother rang the Police to report the incident, their attitude was unbelieveable ! They, quite literally, said "Well, what do you want us to do about it ?" CAN YOU BELIEVE THIS ???
What is the f**king point of having a Police force when a young lad gets the cr*p beaten out of him, and they DO NOT WANT TO KNOW !
F**king unbelieveable ..... just unbelievable ....
--RANT OFF--
(and no, I dont feel better for ranting either)
>>> Edited by nevpugh308 on Thursday 10th October 12:46
quote:
When his mother rang the Police to report the incident, their attitude was unbelieveable ! They, quite literally, said "Well, what do you want us to do about it
If the police officer really said this (and he wasn't referring to the fact that the guy had been released - outside the police's control) then I would make a formal complaint - rather than complaining on here.
>> Edited by spnracing on Thursday 10th October 12:48
True. Remember I have only the 2nd hand relate of the story from an emotional and upset mother to go on, but that's apparently what was said.
I believe she is taking it further ....
The scary part of this is that my wife (her sister) frequently goes round to their house in the evening, and walks the short distance from the visitor parking area to the house on her own .... at night ....
I'm going to be discouraging her from doing that again in future !
>> Edited by nevpugh308 on Thursday 10th October 12:57
I believe she is taking it further ....
The scary part of this is that my wife (her sister) frequently goes round to their house in the evening, and walks the short distance from the visitor parking area to the house on her own .... at night ....
I'm going to be discouraging her from doing that again in future !
>> Edited by nevpugh308 on Thursday 10th October 12:57
I don't blame you Nev.. I stopped Claire from taking the TT up to London when all this carjacking started last year as a lot of it was happening around Fulham & Bayswater where she goes..
Just can't trust scum to leave well alone and can't get any joy from a police force that's been turned into a business by pen-pushing whitehall no-dicks..
Personally, if I knew who the guy was I'd have a word in the boozer and get him sorted..
Just can't trust scum to leave well alone and can't get any joy from a police force that's been turned into a business by pen-pushing whitehall no-dicks..
Personally, if I knew who the guy was I'd have a word in the boozer and get him sorted..
It's fu**ing stupid!
A very good mate of mine was knifed last year, and had all of his money stolen, he knew who did and gave the poilice all of the details, nothing was done for about a month, it's not like they didn't have proof, he now has a 3 inch scar in his stomach!
The thing which p**ses me off is that if my mate took matters into his own hand and beat the living cr*p out of the d*ck who knifed him then my mate would get done for ABH or GBH or something and the other one would've got a slap on the wrists!!
This society is FUBAR!
A very good mate of mine was knifed last year, and had all of his money stolen, he knew who did and gave the poilice all of the details, nothing was done for about a month, it's not like they didn't have proof, he now has a 3 inch scar in his stomach!
The thing which p**ses me off is that if my mate took matters into his own hand and beat the living cr*p out of the d*ck who knifed him then my mate would get done for ABH or GBH or something and the other one would've got a slap on the wrists!!
This society is FUBAR!
quote:
When his mother rang the Police to report the incident, their attitude was unbelieveable ! They, quite literally, said "Well, what do you want us to do about it
Welcome to criminal justice !
These days there is so much pressure to reduce the crime figures and increase clear up rates that this will be asked as a matter of course. If it deters you, that's one less crime. In this case there's no corroboration, CPS might not run with it, so jeopardise their clear up rate this month. Happens to us all.
Perhaps it comes with the job, but I get a little more arrogant dealing with them. Aunt was burgled recently. When I reported it to the local desk seargent for her I got the same response. My reply was that they stop sitting in here (the station) eating chips and go catch criminals. They catch them, bring them to me over at the court, and we'll get somewhere. At which point the penny dropped with the cop who he was talking to.
Second incident with that reply was some kind sod parked across my drive preventing me getting out. Phone round the cop shop only to get the same reply. Met in return with, "The next time you have custodies, like Boxing Day or Easter Monday, and you need me to come to court to deal with them, just remember how blocked my drive gets. I'm might not make it for 10 am, could be busy all day out there. Tell the custody seargant he might need to make them breakfast, lunch, whatever till the street clears." Next thing you know, up pops a police car which just happened to be passing. My ar**.
Serving BiB will no doubt confirm, the difference between a job in the police and a career in the police is an official complaint. If you're not getting the service, threaten them with a complaint. (But check you tax is up to date and yur tyres not bald first !!!)
I am really surprised to hear that this was the response that she got. The Govt and particularly the Home Office have put a huge amount of pressure on Police Forces to clamp down hard on street robbery. I have been working on an initiative in my area today with a disproportionate amount of rescourses ready to act on the report of such an incident. The net result of this initiative (running since April this year) has seen a 27% decrease in street crime since that time in that area. Many of the main offenders have been fast tracked through the court system and been sentenced to between 2 and 6 years for first offences in some cases.
On the report of such an incident, an unmarked traffic car attends the victim immediately, swabs him down immediately for DNA samples, then places the victim in the car and they drive around the area until the offender is seen. He is then apprehended. There are many more rescorces attached to this initiative. Dog handlers in case the offender tries to escape, detectives to take on the investigation immediately, uniformed officers and marked vehicles to patrol areas where offences are more prevalent.
Only last month when I was on this job, a 12 year old girl was assaulted and robbed of her phone at about 20.00 hours. I arrived with another 2 response vehicles (unmarked traffic car and an ARV) within 5 minutes of the call being received. She knew the identity of two of the three attackers and within half an hour we had arrested all three of the offenders and into the bargain retreived the phone which had been sold on twice in that half an hour. Net result was 3 robbers arrested and 2 handlers arrested. All have been charged with the relevant offences.
The stumbling block comes when we get them to the courts. It seems unbelievable that some of the offenders that have long and persistent record of these offences are time and again bailed by the court with conditions to stay in over a night period. They just adapt their working hours to daylight ones.
On the report of such an incident, an unmarked traffic car attends the victim immediately, swabs him down immediately for DNA samples, then places the victim in the car and they drive around the area until the offender is seen. He is then apprehended. There are many more rescorces attached to this initiative. Dog handlers in case the offender tries to escape, detectives to take on the investigation immediately, uniformed officers and marked vehicles to patrol areas where offences are more prevalent.
Only last month when I was on this job, a 12 year old girl was assaulted and robbed of her phone at about 20.00 hours. I arrived with another 2 response vehicles (unmarked traffic car and an ARV) within 5 minutes of the call being received. She knew the identity of two of the three attackers and within half an hour we had arrested all three of the offenders and into the bargain retreived the phone which had been sold on twice in that half an hour. Net result was 3 robbers arrested and 2 handlers arrested. All have been charged with the relevant offences.
The stumbling block comes when we get them to the courts. It seems unbelievable that some of the offenders that have long and persistent record of these offences are time and again bailed by the court with conditions to stay in over a night period. They just adapt their working hours to daylight ones.
quote:
The stumbling block comes when we get them to the courts. It seems unbelievable that some of the offenders that have long and persistent record of these offences are time and again bailed by the court with conditions to stay in over a night period. They just adapt their working hours to daylight ones.
I'd like to know what insights BobtheBench has to offer on this, as it appears to be the main stumbling block. Are our prisons so full that we can't lock the scrotes up, even in the light of overwhelming evidence? Or are our courts stuffed with liberal do-gooders who believe that it is societies fault that these low-life nick other peoples property, but that speeding is a capital offence that should be dealt with by public flogging and be-heading?
From memory;
Prison capacity in the UK is approximately 71K. There are currently over 69K prisoners being held, this number has risen by 4K in the last 12 months alone.
What we need is a different kind of REAL punishment that can be given to non-violent offenders, so the real scumbags can be locked up and kept locked up.
If a defendent pleads guilty, a three month sentence nowadays amounts to approximately 30 days in prison. The sentence is halved because of the guilty plea, and the prisoner is usually granted Home Detention Curfew (HDC - tagging) for the last 14 days.
Prison capacity in the UK is approximately 71K. There are currently over 69K prisoners being held, this number has risen by 4K in the last 12 months alone.
What we need is a different kind of REAL punishment that can be given to non-violent offenders, so the real scumbags can be locked up and kept locked up.
If a defendent pleads guilty, a three month sentence nowadays amounts to approximately 30 days in prison. The sentence is halved because of the guilty plea, and the prisoner is usually granted Home Detention Curfew (HDC - tagging) for the last 14 days.
quote:
Yes and to top it all off no "real" evidence is required to prosecute a speeder. Just one bent cop in England.
But I've got to ask a simple question: How much money does a rapist or mugger have to pay in fines?
None. These sort of offences are viewed as custodial. certainly Rape is. Mugging or robbery is treated just as seriously by the courts. The reason these offenders are not 'fined' is that they rob because they have no money, generally because they are drug addicts. To fine them would be pointless because they would have to re-offend to pay for the fine and in any case what cash they do get goes straight to feed the habit.
Even compensation for an injury received will generally not be awarded against these type of people as it would never be paid ( I am waiting for the first payment to arrive from a assault by one of these offenders from over 2 years ago. Some hope of getting that). Compensation is usually awarded by the Criminal Injuries Compensation Authority ( The tax payer)
Speeders are fined because a high proportion of motorists are honest hard working people who earn reasonable wages and can pay the fines levied, even if it does cause hardship.They are also fined because of the huge volume of offences commited which could not possibly be sustained by any prison regime. Most decent people would shudder to consider even a small amount of time inside a penal institution for not paying a fine. Most low life really don't give a damn.
Thanks Madcop a very fine reply.
So rather than fine the motorists why not insist they do some sort of Advanced Driving course (£75) and if they fail then punish them harder.
Thus making the roads safer rather than just taking money off "honest" hard working people.
If it's all about road safety?
>> Edited by Lucozade on Friday 11th October 11:38
So rather than fine the motorists why not insist they do some sort of Advanced Driving course (£75) and if they fail then punish them harder.
Thus making the roads safer rather than just taking money off "honest" hard working people.
If it's all about road safety?
>> Edited by Lucozade on Friday 11th October 11:38
this'll be contriversial but what about floggings?
cheap as chips and takes no time at all. And if there is an unsafe conviction and someone gets flogged wrongly then simply bung them 5000 quid compensation. (which will still be cheaper than locking them up for any period of time)
Furthermore I do believe even the macho low life scum would view this as a deterrent. As they know it WILL hurt.
Now you may think I'm mad for suggesting this but it is used in Singapore (where I lived for a year) and there is very very little street crime. And Singapore has court systems based on ours (but improved slightly). And its a democratic westernised country. And most of the population support this type of punnishment.
I wonder what kind of support level it would have in this country?
Something to ponder
Andy
>> Edited by andytk on Friday 11th October 11:55
cheap as chips and takes no time at all. And if there is an unsafe conviction and someone gets flogged wrongly then simply bung them 5000 quid compensation. (which will still be cheaper than locking them up for any period of time)
Furthermore I do believe even the macho low life scum would view this as a deterrent. As they know it WILL hurt.
Now you may think I'm mad for suggesting this but it is used in Singapore (where I lived for a year) and there is very very little street crime. And Singapore has court systems based on ours (but improved slightly). And its a democratic westernised country. And most of the population support this type of punnishment.
I wonder what kind of support level it would have in this country?
Something to ponder
Andy
>> Edited by andytk on Friday 11th October 11:55
I had a recent run in with a traffic cop and the hoops etc I have had to go through for some thing as simple as paying a fine and endorsing a license makes me so frustrated with this country.
I dont think that the police are being allowed to do their job. They are being measured on quantitive performance and not on the quality of the work they do. This means that they are driven to focus on the easy soft target - the hard working citizens of this country. My recent experience tells me that they are shackled by the red tape and processes implemented on them by the Government and civil service , both of which have no grasp of reality and what goes on in normal everyday lives. Who came up with the idea of replacing one piece of paper that was your driving license and replacing it with a plastic photo card and a piece of paper? Neither of which on their own represent a valid driving license (wheres the logic in that?). That is a retrograde step not progress. The technology exists to have all your driving information on the plastic photo if it was a smart card. But what the government has done is introduce an ID card under the pretence of a driving license.
It is this sort of thing that gives the police and authority a bad name and why normal decent folk loose respect for them. It is about time the good people of this country got more involved in issues like this and told the people who pretend to be concerned and interested in creating a better society (but they are only in politics for what they can get out of the game) to get lost and lets have people who live in the real world deciding and implementing laws and processes etc that make sense.
If we all refused to pay the congestion charge that Ken is implementing in London whats he going to do? How can the courts deal with 100s of 1000s of tickets that people refuse to pay? We all seem to accept this sort of thing these days it is about time we stood up and said enough is enough its time for change.
Off soapbox. ;-)
I dont think that the police are being allowed to do their job. They are being measured on quantitive performance and not on the quality of the work they do. This means that they are driven to focus on the easy soft target - the hard working citizens of this country. My recent experience tells me that they are shackled by the red tape and processes implemented on them by the Government and civil service , both of which have no grasp of reality and what goes on in normal everyday lives. Who came up with the idea of replacing one piece of paper that was your driving license and replacing it with a plastic photo card and a piece of paper? Neither of which on their own represent a valid driving license (wheres the logic in that?). That is a retrograde step not progress. The technology exists to have all your driving information on the plastic photo if it was a smart card. But what the government has done is introduce an ID card under the pretence of a driving license.
It is this sort of thing that gives the police and authority a bad name and why normal decent folk loose respect for them. It is about time the good people of this country got more involved in issues like this and told the people who pretend to be concerned and interested in creating a better society (but they are only in politics for what they can get out of the game) to get lost and lets have people who live in the real world deciding and implementing laws and processes etc that make sense.
If we all refused to pay the congestion charge that Ken is implementing in London whats he going to do? How can the courts deal with 100s of 1000s of tickets that people refuse to pay? We all seem to accept this sort of thing these days it is about time we stood up and said enough is enough its time for change.
Off soapbox. ;-)
andytk said: this'll be contriversial but what about floggings?
cheap as chips and takes no time at all. And if there is an unsafe conviction and someone gets flogged wrongly then simply bung them 5000 quid compensation. (which will still be cheaper than locking them up for any period of time)
Furthermore I do believe even the macho low life scum would view this as a deterrent. As they know it WILL hurt.
Gets my vote, and I'd be willing to pay for the coppers
or who ever to do it.
Now which politico wants to stand up & advocate this
policy ?
I'll vote for you.
Now you may think I'm mad for suggesting this but it is used in Singapore (where I lived for a year) and there is very very little street crime.
Just like Saudi Arabia. Get caught nicking there, and you get your hand chopped off.
Net result: you can leave $10,000 bundles of cash laid about
in public, and no one touches the money.
Result !
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