Misinformation Gets Worse

Author
Discussion

PetrolTed

Original Poster:

34,443 posts

310 months

Tuesday 8th October 2002
quotequote all
Granada Men and Motors at the moment is doing a follow plod on patrol thing. All quite interesting and nothing too controversial except the commentary which claims "Almost half of all accidents are now caused by speeding"

ARRRRRRRRGGGGGGHHHHHHHHH!

nubbin

6,809 posts

285 months

Tuesday 8th October 2002
quotequote all
Don't worry, Ted, you were the only one watching. Just waiting for "Eurotica" were you?!

>> Edited by nubbin on Tuesday 8th October 22:43

PetrolTed

Original Poster:

34,443 posts

310 months

Tuesday 8th October 2002
quotequote all
Haven't got a TV in the office unfortunately... yet.

GrahamJay

5,420 posts

266 months

Tuesday 8th October 2002
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quote:

Don't worry, Ted, you were the only one watching. Just waiting for "Eurotica" were you?!



Obviously not the only one watching then!

BTW, was it a good one, I missed it!

spnracing

1,554 posts

278 months

Wednesday 9th October 2002
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Speaking of misinformation, I was bored yesterday (again) so I had a quick browse of the ABD web site.

Its all rather frustrating.

They make a good case for increasing the motorway speed limit to 80mph, then go on to ruin their argument with ridiculous statements about removing the limits altogether and stories about bikers being killed by speed camera's.

I forget the actual figure - but something like 93% of households now have a car. So we're nearly all 'motorists'.

So we all get taxed. Seems fair enough? So its seems rather arrogant for a small pressure group like this to call themselves 'The Association of British Drivers'.

Some of the discussions on PH make out that the 'motorist' is a rare species who wears string back gloves and drives around in his TVR with the roof off all winter.

The housewife taking her kids to school counts too. Though I doubt she supports the ABD.

Don

28,377 posts

291 months

Wednesday 9th October 2002
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quote:

The housewife taking her kids to school counts too. Though I doubt she supports the ABD.


But she should. The ABD is about ensuring that all motorists retain the right to use their car to maintain their quality of life. They are about the *right to choose* between using your car and travelling on public transport.

They are not against speed limits - just poorly set ones. They are not against Speed Cameras - just one's that are used for Revenue not Safety.

They are not against Road Tax - paid by all. They ARE against the declining standard of British Roads when the motorist is being taxed highly.

Read "On The Road" (their newsletter) for a bit and you will "get" where they are coming from. They really aren't mad - they're just motivated about the individual's freedom to choose their mode of transport.

Its a small freedom that. But an important one. I once listened to a Labour politician talk about "Freedom". He said you weren't "Free" to choose to do as you liked unless you could afford it. Well our dear government (and I do mean successive ones - not just this current lot) seems hell-bent on preventing the majority from affording to travel by their chosen means. The ABD have noticed this...and have chosen to make a small stand about it.

I, for one, agree with them.

dan

1,068 posts

291 months

Wednesday 9th October 2002
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quote:

So its seems rather arrogant for a small pressure group like this to call themselves 'The Association of British Drivers'.


SPN,

the reason they are a 'small' pressure group is because too many people whinge about the state of roads, traffic and road safety, but don't bother to do anything about it, relying on the government to solve the problems, which it can't with the current level of spending. So they let themselves get brainwashed with the speed kills mantra.

Memebership numbers for the ABD are growing as more people realise that things are starting to get stupid and that the image of the police is taking a real hit.

ABD members are fighting for a real solution to road safety i.e. roaduser education, and I don't just mean drivers, pedestrians have the most to loose but seem to care the least!

Better stop now before I really go off on one. But I think you get the point.

Cheers Dan

spnracing

1,554 posts

278 months

Wednesday 9th October 2002
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I get the point.

I just don't agree with their silly right wing anti-New Labour stance on everything.

Like I've said before, most of their articles read like something out of the Sun.

Look at the News Stories on the site now;

"A young motorcyclist has been killed by a speed camera in London."

It fell on his head?!?

"30 Speed Cameras along a 27 mile stretch of the North Circular Road in London have been systematically vandalized, and those behind the attacks have threatened more."

So we (the tax payer) have to spend even more fixing them all?

Very clever.

joust

14,622 posts

266 months

Wednesday 9th October 2002
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Intereestingly enough the two just north of where the M23 ends and the A23 starts have been "torched" (looks like they did a good job as well).

If you've ever seen them they are purely there for revenue, and are *still* hidden behind trees.

Would seem the direct action fightback is gaining momentum. The article in this months Top Gear magazine about what's going on in Holland is interesting.

J

spnracing

1,554 posts

278 months

Wednesday 9th October 2002
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The A23 from Hooley into Coulsdon is an accident blackspot - the cars travel too fast down the main road and cars trying to push in from the side roads ('cos they'd be waiting forever otherwise) collect them.

A classic example of a few people who 'think' they know better by saying these camera's are just there for revenue generation.

Never mind - our taxes wiil no doubt pay for new cameras.

I do of course agree that they shouldn't be hidden - but then are they really? I recall them being quite clearly marked?

hertsbiker

6,371 posts

278 months

Wednesday 9th October 2002
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The ABD is doing a great job IMHO.
Captain Gatso and MAD are heroes.
Spnracing seems to be a government plant?

Don

28,377 posts

291 months

Wednesday 9th October 2002
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quote:

The A23 from Hooley into Coulsdon is an accident blackspot - the cars travel too fast down the main road and cars trying to push in from the side roads ('cos they'd be waiting forever otherwise) collect them.

A classic example of a few people who 'think' they know better by saying these camera's are just there for revenue generation.

Never mind - our taxes wiil no doubt pay for new cameras.

I do of course agree that they shouldn't be hidden - but then are they really? I recall them being quite clearly marked?



Its this sort of reaction to camera vandalism that makes me angry. Not at spnracing. But at the blasted vandals! Captain GATSO et al will just force Govt measures that are worse than the b****y cameras in my estimation.

It completely undermines rational arguments about removing the blasted things.

And actually when it comes to camera siting I think some of the "informed" public DO know better...

PetrolTed

Original Poster:

34,443 posts

310 months

Wednesday 9th October 2002
quotequote all
I have certain sympathy for SPN's views. I'm a member of the ABD and I promote them on this site yet I find the tone of their campaigning too strong at times.

Knee jerk reactions to every news story and over satirical press releases make me uneasy.

I think it should be a case of slowly-slowly-catchy-monkey with a reasoned and calm approach in response to the over zealous legislation being implemented. Only that will get the masses on board.

CarZee

13,382 posts

274 months

Wednesday 9th October 2002
quotequote all
This issue needs the direct-action groups' participation... the ABD aren't the sole or ideal way to fight the problem as a whole.. particularly the Gatso problem..

I'd like to see every last one destroyed time after time until the government gets the message that the British Public will not accept the big brother tactics and heavy handed control freakery that this lot are hell-bent on employing for their social experiments.

And if it costs the govt some money, all well and good - the money will come from hypothecation. Every camera they have to repair will use up money they wouldn have otherwise spent putting a new camera somewhere else. Once that money is run out, the Treasury will call a halt to the scheme..

You don't think Gordon Brown will let Gatsos become an oozing sore, seeping money from his coffers do you?

As for the ABD, they're too 'straight down the line' in some ways - and I agree the way they write their material is often a bit 'parish council newsletter' style, rather than the influential national campaign group they aim to be. But they're getting there and the more their membership grows, the more the organisation will mature into a formidable and worthwhile one.

There's a big meeting at Gaydon on 23rd November - be there rather than criticise on here!

>> Edited by CarZee on Wednesday 9th October 12:17

spnracing

1,554 posts

278 months

Wednesday 9th October 2002
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quote:

I'd like to see every last one destroyed time after time until the government gets the message...



Carzee - you really think ANY government is going to give in to violence and intimidation - whatever the cost?

It amounts to terrorism. And it NEVER works. However good the intentions.

mondeoman

11,430 posts

273 months

Wednesday 9th October 2002
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quote:

quote:

I'd like to see every last one destroyed time after time until the government gets the message...



Carzee - you really think ANY government is going to give in to violence and intimidation - whatever the cost?

It amounts to terrorism. And it NEVER works. However good the intentions.



Oh really - do you remember the Poll Tax Riots? Are you saying that that had no effect on Government policy in any way shape mean or form???

Live Animal exports protests ......

Fox hunt sabateours (sp?) ......

Fuel Protests (not that violent, but.....)

In a lot of cases it is the violent protest that makes the news, which draws the attention of the population at large and gets them thinking about it. The idea is to make sure that you build up a majority of public opinion against the Government, leaving them little option. And it is unfortunate that violent protest is the necessary first step in a lot of cases in this wonderfully democratic country of ours.

Just imagine what would have happened if the Countryside Alliance had let rip in central London - 1/2 million people violently protesting against a policy. Are you saying the G'ment wouldn't have done something then?


mr_tony

6,339 posts

276 months

Wednesday 9th October 2002
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Carz,

You're assuming that such a strategy would leave the government helpless.

In reality Special Branch would track you down, the Daily Mail and Sun would paint you as an enemy of freedom (and small children) and in the eyes of the masses you would then get your just comeuppance, crucified upside down on an M25 Camera Gantry.

Governments don't loose. (ok rarely, and even less rarely to non military pressure..)

If something is to be done it is to convince the majority of _voters_ (ie 'middle britain') that speed cameras are bad.

Problem is your / our / my apparatus of propaganda (and budget!) is very small compared to the governments various options.

Maybe we should all get pilots licenses, no speed limits up there yet AFAIK....

ciao

CarZee

13,382 posts

274 months

Wednesday 9th October 2002
quotequote all
quote:
Carzee - you really think ANY government is going to give in to violence and intimidation - whatever the cost?

It amounts to terrorism. And it NEVER works. However good the intentions.
nah - terrorism is against people... how many people are going to be terrified by me gas-axing a gatso???

And is it violence? Well not against any person it's not..

I doubt the grey boxes are much prone to intimidation either

spnracing

1,554 posts

278 months

Wednesday 9th October 2002
quotequote all
The IRA bombed some targets that didn't have people in them.

Mondeoman - all the examples you have given were of predominantly peaceful mass protests.

An individual setting fire to a speed camera (probably because they've got the hump at receiving an NIP) is hardly the same.

JMGS4

8,770 posts

277 months

Wednesday 9th October 2002
quotequote all
quote:

Carzee - you really think ANY government is going to give in to violence and intimidation - whatever the cost? It amounts to terrorism. And it NEVER works. However good the intentions.

It certainly DOES!!!! just look at Sinn Fein and the so-called Palestinians. Our Pinko screwballs can't bend down quick enough to get screwed by such TERRORISTS!!!!