RE: Surrey's Shock Tactics
Monday 30th September 2002
Surrey's Shock Tactics
ABD welcome fresh approach to road safety
Discussion
There are some sensible people in positions of authority who are concerned more with making a positive difference than with keeping the bean counters happy, but sadly not many.
These efforts ought to be supported and applauded - they might actually make a difference, and engender some respect for the police.
One hopes that this enlightened view will be accompanied by wholesale removal of the dangerous revenue cameras.
These efforts ought to be supported and applauded - they might actually make a difference, and engender some respect for the police.
One hopes that this enlightened view will be accompanied by wholesale removal of the dangerous revenue cameras.
This will never catch on. This officer will be drummed out of the service by the "suits" running the goverment. If by educating drivers and exposeing the lie that speed is the main killer, income will fall and a policy which is clearly wrong will be proved so. The fact it will have a better effect on road safety is not important he is off message.
Quote "At some sites these had not reduced at all or had increased. At one site a death occured where there had been none previously."
Could it be because people are too busy watching out for bloody speed cameras to concentrate properly on their driving?
I certainly regard rural speed cameras as an extra distraction I could do without. What do other PHers think?
Could it be because people are too busy watching out for bloody speed cameras to concentrate properly on their driving?
I certainly regard rural speed cameras as an extra distraction I could do without. What do other PHers think?
Simple.......If you didn't speed and saved it for the track then you wouldn't spend all your time looking out for speed cameras and spend more time reading the situation, I don't see why people don't just keep to the speed limit, it is there for a reason and we aren't all immortal!
>> Edited by GrahamJay on Monday 30th September 23:35
>> Edited by GrahamJay on Monday 30th September 23:35
quote:
Simple.......If you didn't speed and saved it for the track then you wouldn't spend all your time looking out for speed cameras and spend more time reading the situation, I don't see why people don't just keep to the speed limit, it is there for a reason and we aren't all immortal!
>> Edited by GrahamJay on Monday 30th September 23:35
Unfortunately in some cases the 'reason' is revenue generation, why else would a low accident history road have a speed limit reduced and then cameras installed?
GrahamJay - if speed limits were set according to the available guidelines, and set the same way in all areas we might be able to drive within the limit without worrying about cameras. As it is we don't have a clue how the local traffic gestapo set the limits and hence have to divert more attention than is good to seeking out the limit signs and cameras.
On the other hand, you are winding us up, aren't you?
On the other hand, you are winding us up, aren't you?
Cheers mungo,
The reason I don't like it when people speed on the road is because on 2 occasions freinds of mine have died due to people breaking the speed limit, speeding is a topic I feel very strongly about. However, I do get annoyed when there is no need for a 30 zone when just before or just after there is a 40!
The police need to rethink the road speed systems, as at the moment they're all crap! Although I do HATE WITH A PASSION the boy racers or bolt-on-boys!
>> Edited by GrahamJay on Tuesday 1st October 11:58
The reason I don't like it when people speed on the road is because on 2 occasions freinds of mine have died due to people breaking the speed limit, speeding is a topic I feel very strongly about. However, I do get annoyed when there is no need for a 30 zone when just before or just after there is a 40!
The police need to rethink the road speed systems, as at the moment they're all crap! Although I do HATE WITH A PASSION the boy racers or bolt-on-boys!
>> Edited by GrahamJay on Tuesday 1st October 11:58
I think Bill Harding should be applauded for this different approach. It's long been stated by road transport experts that driver education is the most effective way of reducing accidents.
Hopefully, if he can reduce the fatalaties in particular, and accident statistics in general in his area, then it may catch on. (I'm not holding my breath, though).
Well done BH.
Hopefully, if he can reduce the fatalaties in particular, and accident statistics in general in his area, then it may catch on. (I'm not holding my breath, though).
Well done BH.
quote:
Cheers mungo,
The reason I don't like it when people speed on the road is because on 2 occasions freinds of mine have died due to people breaking the speed limit, speeding is a topic I feel very strongly about. However, I do get annoyed when there is no need for a 30 zone when just before or just after there is a 40!
The police need to rethink the road speed systems, as at the moment they're all crap!
Sorry to hear that Graham.
As a counter example, I've been involved in 3 RTAs (one near-fatal), all of which occurred UNDER the speed limit, and were down to driver error. I can think of many more examples that friends have been involved in.
To repeat a well-worn truism:
it's INAPPROPRIATE speed for the CONDITIONS that causes accidents.
Speed is a minor factor in most fatal accidents. Its bad drivers which are the problem.
Germany is a great place for driving.
When there is a limit, stick to it.
Whern the road is free, off we go!
Now, teach the Germans that tailgaiting is a bad thing and you will have a much lower fatality rate.
The German driving test is far more difficult than the UK one, i think is a better idea as it preapres you more for the *real* roads.
Deester...
Germany is a great place for driving.
When there is a limit, stick to it.
Whern the road is free, off we go!
Now, teach the Germans that tailgaiting is a bad thing and you will have a much lower fatality rate.
The German driving test is far more difficult than the UK one, i think is a better idea as it preapres you more for the *real* roads.
Deester...
quote:
Germany is a great place for driving.
When there is a limit, stick to it.
Whern the road is free, off we go!
Now, teach the Germans that tailgaiting is a bad thing and you will have a much lower fatality rate.
The German driving test is far more difficult than the UK one, i think is a better idea as it preapres you more for the *real* roads.
Deester...
Not having a pop, just an obversation. When I worked in Germany, I saw more motorway smashes than I ever saw over here. As for the tailgating, 4 or 5 big Mercs, BM's etc inches from each other at a very rapid speed, scary. Saw that an awful lot.
On the country roads though, very sedate and calm.
Me, in a van over 2.8 tonne so able to see all this happen (80kph max)
quote:
As for the tailgating, 4 or 5 big Mercs, BM's etc inches from each other at a very rapid speed, scary. Saw that an awful lot.
I can't agree more! As I say, teach the Germans not to do this and I think it would be some of the safest roads in the world.
Have a look at stats compiled from the ABD.
www.abd.org.uk/safest_roads.htm
Even with unlimited speed on the autobahn which the Germans take advantage of constantly, they are still one of the safer countries in Europe to drive in.
I think they are doing something right.
Deester...
quote:
As for the tailgating, 4 or 5 big Mercs, BM's etc inches from each other at a very rapid speed, scary. Saw that an awful lot.
Me too.
I've seen 911s chasing top end Audis, with less than
the length of the 911 between the front of the 911
and the back of the Audi - all at over 110 mph.
But their perception is different to your perception.
You might get frightened of cars less than 3 meters
apart at 110+ mph, but to them, it's not so fast, and
it happens all the time.
Next time you get tailgated, have a look to see if you could
pull in to let the faster traffic past.
quote:
As a counter example, I've been involved in 3 RTAs (one near-fatal), all of which occurred UNDER the speed limit, and were down to driver error. I can think of many more examples that friends have been involved in.
To repeat a well-worn truism:
it's INAPPROPRIATE speed for the CONDITIONS that causes accidents.
I agree and thought I'd thought I'd comment on the quote below as they create my final thought!
quote:
Speed is a minor factor in most fatal accidents. Its bad drivers which are the problem.
Precisely, the reason for my friends death's was on all occasions inexperienced drivers driving beyond the speed limit and losing control! After losing control the cars my freinds were in were all hit due to the idiot's speeding!
>> Edited by GrahamJay on Sunday 6th October 19:30
quote:
Speed is a minor factor in most fatal accidents. Its bad drivers which are the problem.
If bad drivers travelled slowly, less people would be killed then
No. speed is a major factor in most fatal accidents.
People die in vehicles mostly because they were travelling fast and decelerated very quickly or were rapidly accelerated themselves.
Not many people die from accidents where they are crushed through the gravitational weight of the vehicle.
Most are crushed due to the kinetic energy of the decelaration.
It is purely not fact that speed isn't a factor in fatal accidents. If riders fell off their motorcycles and hit objects at slow speeds , not so many would die. The same is equivalent to cars. Those that are travelling fast and collide with staionary objects throw the occupants into deceleration at an equivalent rate (minus the crumple impact absorbsion equation that is built into the vehicle).
I have been to the scene of many fatal accidents and dealt with 10 such incidents. With the exception of two of those I dealt with ( one where a child fell under the wheels of a tipper truck reversing up a driveway and the other where 4 teenagers were jousting each other on pedal cycles next to a busy road, one landed a kick which unbalanced another who fell under the wheels of a bus which was passing within the limit for the road) All have speed as a factor which caused the death.
I concede that speed alone does not kill. High speed combined with lack of attention inevitably does.
If speed alone killed then I would have been dead years ago. Yesterday I spent a considerable amount of time in excess of 115mph. The speed did not kill me. It has not killed me for the last 20 years because when I travel at that kind of speed, I concentrate fully until the need to maintain that speed has gone. I can then drop my concentration to a more sustainable level.
It is a simple fact of physics that the faster you travel, the further you travel in relation to your reaction time and the greater the impact will be if you stop suddenly. Therefore speed is a major factor in the cause of death in road accidents.
Speed (alone) however definately does not kill.
Well, I was pondering on this yesterday ........
IMHO, when travelling slowly outside of urban areas ie most NSL, it is very difficult to concentrate solely on the driving when driving UNDER the current low limit. Things happen so slowly for 99% of the time that you start to drift, concentration laspes and you are unprepared for the unexpected.
However, start to travel a bit more rapidly and you concentrate more - you, in fact, become a safer driver, up to a limit: that limit being the safe stopping distance that you can clearly see ahead. I'm not talking about tyre-sqealing antics (fun tho they can be!), just making rapid safe progress, with concentration and observation, sensible closing speeds with traffic in your lane (not cadence braking right under their bumper!) and clear indication of your intentions.
Its quite alarming how sheep-like the driving population has become, with their total fear of overtaking and hatred almost of those who do want to overtake. Had a on-coming lorry driver give me the knuckle shuffle wave on Friday, for overtaking a line of cars and getting back into my lane a good 100 yards before he got to me - gave him a friendly wave n a smile back of course
And the number of flashed headlights from people that get overtaken - very scary!
Still, I consol myself with the thought that I've enjoyed my driving, have reached my destination safely and they are still out on the roads, travelling under the false assumption that doing 40 everywhere is the safest way to travel - at this rate we'll grow a generation of people who end up living on the roads cos they go so slow that when they get to their destination they have to turn round and go somewhere else
IMHO, when travelling slowly outside of urban areas ie most NSL, it is very difficult to concentrate solely on the driving when driving UNDER the current low limit. Things happen so slowly for 99% of the time that you start to drift, concentration laspes and you are unprepared for the unexpected.
However, start to travel a bit more rapidly and you concentrate more - you, in fact, become a safer driver, up to a limit: that limit being the safe stopping distance that you can clearly see ahead. I'm not talking about tyre-sqealing antics (fun tho they can be!), just making rapid safe progress, with concentration and observation, sensible closing speeds with traffic in your lane (not cadence braking right under their bumper!) and clear indication of your intentions.
Its quite alarming how sheep-like the driving population has become, with their total fear of overtaking and hatred almost of those who do want to overtake. Had a on-coming lorry driver give me the knuckle shuffle wave on Friday, for overtaking a line of cars and getting back into my lane a good 100 yards before he got to me - gave him a friendly wave n a smile back of course
And the number of flashed headlights from people that get overtaken - very scary!
Still, I consol myself with the thought that I've enjoyed my driving, have reached my destination safely and they are still out on the roads, travelling under the false assumption that doing 40 everywhere is the safest way to travel - at this rate we'll grow a generation of people who end up living on the roads cos they go so slow that when they get to their destination they have to turn round and go somewhere else
Most accidents are due to driver error. Driver error is going to be higher at higher speeds, as there is less brain time to take evasive action, slow down etc. I can only assume that an increase in accidents where a camera has been installed is due to some prat speeding then braking sharply when spotting/passing the camera, causing a shunt/loss of control etc (which means the bod behind was going too fast as well...)
People just need to pay attention and be observant of road signs. And no nonsense please about 'in the real world..' the real world is what we all make of it and if we can't be responsible in a car then we can't be anywhere else.
To reduce accusations that cameras are just revenue collectors, the government should change the system by increasing the points accrued and reducing/eliminating the fines. That way you have more banned lunatics, and less income to the treasury.
Sorted! :-)
People just need to pay attention and be observant of road signs. And no nonsense please about 'in the real world..' the real world is what we all make of it and if we can't be responsible in a car then we can't be anywhere else.
To reduce accusations that cameras are just revenue collectors, the government should change the system by increasing the points accrued and reducing/eliminating the fines. That way you have more banned lunatics, and less income to the treasury.
Sorted! :-)
Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff