Attention Dibble! :)
Discussion
To all our resident keepers of law and order, (MadCop, john_robson, gemini, etc) what would you personally do in the following situation:
Just pulled a high performance car (TVR, Ferrari, Porsche, etc.) driver for doing 110mph on an empty motorway at 5am in excellent weather.
(a) Book him for doing 110mph - see you in court
(b) Book him for doing 96mph to avoid a court appearance for him/her
(c) Let him/her off with a warning
(d) Enthuse about the car and then b@gger off
I'd be interested to know because there seems to be quite a few people on here (non-plod) who think c or d would be the case, but I'm not so sure.
Cheers.
roadsweeper.
Just pulled a high performance car (TVR, Ferrari, Porsche, etc.) driver for doing 110mph on an empty motorway at 5am in excellent weather.
(a) Book him for doing 110mph - see you in court
(b) Book him for doing 96mph to avoid a court appearance for him/her
(c) Let him/her off with a warning
(d) Enthuse about the car and then b@gger off
I'd be interested to know because there seems to be quite a few people on here (non-plod) who think c or d would be the case, but I'm not so sure.
Cheers.
roadsweeper.
At the risk of hijacking the thread, would the car make any difference? If it were a nice family saloon, or even the dreaded Saxo VTS, would that change your response?
(Sorry Roadsweeper, but I am interested to know if this would change things, since I dont have a nice sports car at the moment.)
(Sorry Roadsweeper, but I am interested to know if this would change things, since I dont have a nice sports car at the moment.)
quote:
At the risk of hijacking the thread, would the car make any difference? If it were a nice family saloon, or even the dreaded Saxo VTS, would that change your response?
It would change mine. Some cars can manage
110 mph better than others.
Some would struggle (Nova, Fiesta, Saxo etc),
some others wouldn't be breaking sweat.
Better brakes on faster cars.
Me, I'd go for c or d. If the road is truly
empty, the only danger they put themselves in
is to themselves.
quote:
Some would struggle (Nova, Fiesta, Saxo etc),
some others wouldn't be breaking sweat.
What on earth would the type of car have to do with it? Absolutely nothing whatsoever. 110mph is 110mph.
What if it was a Ferrari with an Old person that was wearing his/her reading glasses as they had forgotten the bi-focals
quote:
Better brakes on faster cars.
So What!
I have never ever made a decision about a speed offence in relation to the capacity of the braking efficiency. If they had braked earlier then they wouldn't have been stopped in the first place
quote:
Me, I'd go for c or d. If the road is truly
empty, the only danger they put themselves in
is to themselves.
No. They do not just put themselves at risk. If for some unlikely reason there is a problem at the high speed they are travelling. They may well kill themselves, but they put Ambulance, Fire crews and Police Officers at risk, clearing up the not inconsiderable devastation left behind, and into the bargain, those others of the motoring public who happen to come across the inevitable tailback that occurs or for that matter the debris left in the carriageway until it can be safely managed by emergency services.
The most likely thing to get you stuck in the book is your attitude when you are stopped.
Eat lots of humble pie, give a half plausible reason for your indescretion and hope that you have appealed to the better nature of the guy who stopped you.
ME
1 A
s holes, Big heads and slimey BS in the book. 2. Apologetic, reasonable nice people, the 5 minute lecture on why you shouldn't, with clear instructions on how to leave the hard shoulder safely.
Most of the guys I work with are the same!
I did 2 on a woman just before the Holidays started as she was late to collect her young child from school.
100 to 115 on the M4 in a Saxo. I phoned a friend of hers who was in a position to get to the school sooner than my victim and then allowed her to continue, ticketless and pointless.
Thats how I work. Many others do too.
>> Edited by madcop on Thursday 29th August 20:26
I always refer to Germany in cases like this, staying here for the last 6 months has opened my eyes. I think the system here is very effective.
IMHO I think the UK should have the follwing:
1. Stricter driving test compromising mechanical knowledge as well as just the current practical/written test.
2. A rule to govern the type of tyres fitted to your car. Tyres should be rated to top speed of your car. Although people in the UK should not exceed 70 MPH on a public highway, they do! Why not more safely...
3. Probationary period for new licence holders. I think this is a good idea as new licence holders will respect the road a little more. I remember being 17 and feeling indestructible.
4. Higher Motorway speed: I think that 70 MPH is slow for motorway traffic. IMHO I think an 85 MPH motorway limit would be more suitable.
The German autobahn as great as it is with no speed limit, on certain streches its dangerous as hell. Every day I have someone about 15 ft behing me when I am travelling at 120 - 150 MPH. I am surprised there are not more accidents here. I think a system like this in the UK would simply not work. In Germany the penalties for being a little over the speed limit (when posted) are harsh, I dont agree with this.
Deester...
IMHO I think the UK should have the follwing:
1. Stricter driving test compromising mechanical knowledge as well as just the current practical/written test.
2. A rule to govern the type of tyres fitted to your car. Tyres should be rated to top speed of your car. Although people in the UK should not exceed 70 MPH on a public highway, they do! Why not more safely...
3. Probationary period for new licence holders. I think this is a good idea as new licence holders will respect the road a little more. I remember being 17 and feeling indestructible.
4. Higher Motorway speed: I think that 70 MPH is slow for motorway traffic. IMHO I think an 85 MPH motorway limit would be more suitable.
The German autobahn as great as it is with no speed limit, on certain streches its dangerous as hell. Every day I have someone about 15 ft behing me when I am travelling at 120 - 150 MPH. I am surprised there are not more accidents here. I think a system like this in the UK would simply not work. In Germany the penalties for being a little over the speed limit (when posted) are harsh, I dont agree with this.
Deester...
This is the difference between you and a camera, madcop. Common sense, some human feeling (for the mother who is desperate to get to her child), and an education (don't you think it would be better to actually get to the kid in one piece and here's how to safely carry on your way).
Lady in the Saxo was b****y lucky it was you who stopped her and she didn't just pile through a trap.
Frankly, mind. In the UK if you go over a hundred you have to accept that the consequences could be a ban - rational or not.
The driving behaviour that always has me scared witless is b****y tailgating not speeding. Especially in 30mph areas where people seem happy to drive 6 inches off the back of the Porsche in front. Errrr. Why do they do that? They know its silly on the motorway so why isn't it silly at 30mph where most accidents happen?
Lady in the Saxo was b****y lucky it was you who stopped her and she didn't just pile through a trap.
Frankly, mind. In the UK if you go over a hundred you have to accept that the consequences could be a ban - rational or not.
The driving behaviour that always has me scared witless is b****y tailgating not speeding. Especially in 30mph areas where people seem happy to drive 6 inches off the back of the Porsche in front. Errrr. Why do they do that? They know its silly on the motorway so why isn't it silly at 30mph where most accidents happen?
I got stopped at 2am on a Sunday morning for doing 102 mph on a perfectly clear road.
I ate alot of humble pie, told the officers I wanted to make good progress and I had arrived late on a plane and was wanting to return home to see my wife and child.
I did not even get the option of a lesser speed. I was done for 102. Fair enough as Madcop if your doing over a ton then you must take your chances and I'll take the hit whatever.
What aggravated me more was what the feck were Traffic police doing at 2 am on a motorway with a VASCAR set up, when you could safely bet some muppet was nicking/speeding and dangerously drving a stolen vehicle around a bulit up area in the local vicinty.
Sounded to me like a chance to have an easy night with a couple of guarenteed convictions. Well it certainly worked!
Simon
I ate alot of humble pie, told the officers I wanted to make good progress and I had arrived late on a plane and was wanting to return home to see my wife and child.
I did not even get the option of a lesser speed. I was done for 102. Fair enough as Madcop if your doing over a ton then you must take your chances and I'll take the hit whatever.
What aggravated me more was what the feck were Traffic police doing at 2 am on a motorway with a VASCAR set up, when you could safely bet some muppet was nicking/speeding and dangerously drving a stolen vehicle around a bulit up area in the local vicinty.
Sounded to me like a chance to have an easy night with a couple of guarenteed convictions. Well it certainly worked!
Simon
Simon, I suppose they may have thought you were a Max Power type who needed pulling up before you had an accident.. but the fact you are a sensible PH reader making reasonable progress didn't sway them. Bad luck, seems like Vascar is the one thing electronics can't defeat.
How many points did you get for this?
How many points did you get for this?
quote:
Simon, I suppose they may have thought you were a Max Power type who needed pulling up before you had an accident.. but the fact you are a sensible PH reader making reasonable progress didn't sway them. Bad luck, seems like Vascar is the one thing electronics can't defeat.
How many points did you get for this?
I don't think they did , I was at the time a thirty something driving a pretty new Jag. That's what annoyed me , the MP brigade are still out there speeding round built up areas on cruises doing donuts. I conceed I was unlucky this time, like I said , I did the crime and I'll take it , it's just slightly irritating.
Twas only a few weeks ago so am still awaiting the summons. Will let you know the outcome as and when.
I'm assuming you deduced Max Power by my appaling spelling and grammer in the initial post!!( Not saying that MPer's are poor at English ;-)) My only defence it was written quickly!
>> Edited by simonm on Friday 30th August 15:35
>> Edited by simonm on Friday 30th August 15:38
Stopped at 106 on probably the best road in the country for going quickly. Light traffic, good visibility etc etc. Several other cars overtook me, and were clearly visible to the arse operating the laser gun. Was told I was stopped because I had an "obvious" car. That seems very fair. I apologised, was deferential and polite. Booked for the full speed, off to court next week. Discretion my arse. Power trip more like.
If what I was doing was so dangerous, why is it fine for the police to follow me at what must have been 140+ to catch up? Stinks if you ask me, and I question the integrity and decency of someone who can happily screw people's lives up day in, day out. What I was doing was in no way excessive. Crash at 70, crash at 170 - both are going to make a mess.
If what I was doing was so
dangerous, why is it fine for the police to follow me at what must have been 140+ to catch up? Stinks if you ask me, and I question the integrity and decency of someone who can happily screw people's lives up day in, day out. What I was doing was in no way excessive. Crash at 70, crash at 170 - both are going to make a mess.
Back when I did RoSPA I was one of 8 people doing it at my firm, before we all left to go our respective routes people were asking the 8 assembled ex-traffic officers about speeding fine protocol (for want a better word). Every single one of them said that if the first words out of your mouth are sorry and you look genuinely worried/humble then more often than not they will send you on your way with a clip round the ear.
Matt.
Matt.
quote:
What on earth would the type of car have to do with it? Absolutely nothing whatsoever. 110mph is 110mph.
Like I said, brakes. Cars capable of, lets say over
150 mph, should be able to cruise all day every day
at 110 mph, and have the brakes to cope.
And 110 mph isn't that fast anyway.
quote:
What if it was a Ferrari with an Old person that was wearing his/her reading glasses as they had forgotten the bi-focals
You forgot the 18 year old in their Porsche
who passed their test yesterday who's on the mobile phone
while reading a map.
quote:
So What!
Duh. Better brakes, ABS, Porsche Stability Management
etc etc all help with car control.
quote:
No. They do not just put themselves at risk. If for some unlikely reason there is a problem at the high speed they are travelling. They may well kill themselves, but they put Ambulance, Fire crews and Police Officers at risk, clearing up the not inconsiderable devastation left behind, and into the bargain, those others of the motoring public who happen to come across the inevitable tailback that occurs or for that matter the debris left in the carriageway until it can be safely managed by emergency services.
True, but the ambulance & fire folks volunteer for
their jobs.
Risk is part of life. Get with it.
quote:
The most likely thing to get you stuck in the book is your attitude when you are stopped.
My usual is to say "sorry, officer, I'm not used to driving
so slowly."
That usually shuts them up.
Also I have
"There have been no speed limit signs for the last fifty
miles, most folks are doing 90 mph, so I thought I'd
go a little faster."
In your comments about the Saxo driving doing 100-110 mph,
I've got no problem with that provided they
a) kept good lane discipline
b) kept good stopping distance from the car in front.
After all, on the M4, she's only 10-15 mph faster
than prevailing traffic.
Booking folks for merely speeding is a very voter & taxpayer
unfriendly policy.
I note with interest that my local police force have a
14 % detection rate for reported burglary
and 8 % for reported vehicle crime
in the last year. Their figures, not mine.
Not all crime gets reported, but it's clear that more than
85% of burglary doesn't get solved, and 92% of car crime
doesn't get solved either.
For this level of service, the taxpayer pays just over 180
million quid according to the police accounts.
I wonder if the police have got their priorities right
in dealing so harshly with speeding motorists.
The Police have their priorities, the government have theirs. Unfortunately, we defer to the Government. Every force has targets to meet and every officer has to account for their time spent during undirected patrol (when not responding to emergency calls.)
As has been said before on here, all laws need to be enforced and different departments have different remits to police and, in turn have to meet government targets for those remits.
I know it’s hard, but don't blame the Officer for doing his job, like all of us; he's just doing what he's told.
Its just a shame the government don't realise their policy's alienate decent members of the public that we could really do with being on side.
Regards
Rob
>> Edited by relaxitscool on Saturday 31st August 16:51
As has been said before on here, all laws need to be enforced and different departments have different remits to police and, in turn have to meet government targets for those remits.
I know it’s hard, but don't blame the Officer for doing his job, like all of us; he's just doing what he's told.
Its just a shame the government don't realise their policy's alienate decent members of the public that we could really do with being on side.
Regards
Rob
>> Edited by relaxitscool on Saturday 31st August 16:51
(sorry madcop!!) quote:
all laws need to be enforced
Really?, regardless of whether they are good or bad laws?
This kind of "jobsworth" idealism, which is particularly prevalent in England, will lead us to an even more "anal" society.
Don't get me wrong I'm all for enforcement where it's important and proper punishment for criminals, but we have rules for rules sake (which then don't apply to all), it makes me
I'm sure that many Police use discretion wisely but there seems to be many who are "just following orders" I personally wouldn't do a job if I believed that it was "wrong" but then that's just my opinion.
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