Help! Being sued by my passenger
Discussion
I’m a regular on PH but have decided it’s best to remain anonymous for this one, just in case. Sorry about the long post but I would really appreciate any feedback and advice any of you can give to me.
Over 18 months ago I was on my way to lunch with some friends when I lost control of my car on a greasy road and hit an extremely solid object. The impact was low speed (no more than 25mph) but enough to write my car off because the chassis took some damage and required replacement. No other vehicles were involved, but several friends witnessed the incident from the cars following. An ambulance arrived promptly but I was completely unharmed and my passenger refused their attention for a stiff back, and carried on to the pub with the others while I dealt with getting my car recovered.
The police who attended the scene were very helpful and it was clear to them that I was not speeding, driving recklessly or showing off, my driving was not impaired by tiredness, drugs or alcohol. They gave me a producer (all my documents were of course, fine) and helped organise the recovery.
The insurance was dealt with swiftly and without question as it was clear that it was just ‘one of those things’. Sure, it was my fault as I was driving but I wasn’t reckless or negligent in any way. During this period, I learned on the friend grapevine that my passenger was intending to sue me, in fact I was shocked to learn that at the pub that lunchtime while I was sorting things out, someone had given her a claims direct card and informed them of the money making potential.
I spoke to her husband on the phone and explained why I wasn’t too happy about being sued by a friend. The friend aspect hadn’t occurred to them until all our mutual friends reacted strongly against the idea, so they decided that they’d like to come to a compromise whereby if I let them go ahead with making a claim against me, they’d give me some of the money they were awarded. I refused this ridiculous idea and pointed out that it smacked of fraud, would probably cost me in the long term through my insurance premium and finally that I disapprove of the litigious profit making society. I told them that as a friend I would be more than happy to pay for the physiotherapy treatment she was receiving but that to make a profit out of it was somewhat sick. He agreed to accept the payment for treatment if he could get her to agree and said he’d be in touch.
A year later, and I’d still heard nothing from them until last night when a friend phoned to say that they’d heard she was about to sue me! Apparently she is now suffering panic attacks when in the passenger seat of a car and wants compensation. Doubt is cast on this by the fact that my friend says that she was “sitting in the passenger seat of a car, stuffing her face” when she told my friend. She has lost the friendship of all our mutual friends who say they’ll do anything they can to back me up and it looks like she’s just after the money.
Is there anything I can do to save my ass here? If she is successful, can it be paid from my insurance or is this going to cost me personally? She’s left it pretty bloody late, and although I’m still with the same insurer, it’s the next year’s policy.
Over 18 months ago I was on my way to lunch with some friends when I lost control of my car on a greasy road and hit an extremely solid object. The impact was low speed (no more than 25mph) but enough to write my car off because the chassis took some damage and required replacement. No other vehicles were involved, but several friends witnessed the incident from the cars following. An ambulance arrived promptly but I was completely unharmed and my passenger refused their attention for a stiff back, and carried on to the pub with the others while I dealt with getting my car recovered.
The police who attended the scene were very helpful and it was clear to them that I was not speeding, driving recklessly or showing off, my driving was not impaired by tiredness, drugs or alcohol. They gave me a producer (all my documents were of course, fine) and helped organise the recovery.
The insurance was dealt with swiftly and without question as it was clear that it was just ‘one of those things’. Sure, it was my fault as I was driving but I wasn’t reckless or negligent in any way. During this period, I learned on the friend grapevine that my passenger was intending to sue me, in fact I was shocked to learn that at the pub that lunchtime while I was sorting things out, someone had given her a claims direct card and informed them of the money making potential.
I spoke to her husband on the phone and explained why I wasn’t too happy about being sued by a friend. The friend aspect hadn’t occurred to them until all our mutual friends reacted strongly against the idea, so they decided that they’d like to come to a compromise whereby if I let them go ahead with making a claim against me, they’d give me some of the money they were awarded. I refused this ridiculous idea and pointed out that it smacked of fraud, would probably cost me in the long term through my insurance premium and finally that I disapprove of the litigious profit making society. I told them that as a friend I would be more than happy to pay for the physiotherapy treatment she was receiving but that to make a profit out of it was somewhat sick. He agreed to accept the payment for treatment if he could get her to agree and said he’d be in touch.
A year later, and I’d still heard nothing from them until last night when a friend phoned to say that they’d heard she was about to sue me! Apparently she is now suffering panic attacks when in the passenger seat of a car and wants compensation. Doubt is cast on this by the fact that my friend says that she was “sitting in the passenger seat of a car, stuffing her face” when she told my friend. She has lost the friendship of all our mutual friends who say they’ll do anything they can to back me up and it looks like she’s just after the money.
Is there anything I can do to save my ass here? If she is successful, can it be paid from my insurance or is this going to cost me personally? She’s left it pretty bloody late, and although I’m still with the same insurer, it’s the next year’s policy.
Honesty is the best policy. The sheer fact that the Police were there and corroborated (SP?) the case indicates that you do have a relevant level of defence. I am no lawyer so I cant necessarily offer any reasonable advice, but I would talk seriously to your insurer. Be honest, and see what they say. It is likely that they will either take one of two actions - just pay some money to save on legal costs, or defend the actions (but incurr costs).
Most insurance companies have a pot of money for dealing with "borderline" cases as it is all about risk at the end of the day. However, they may simply take the decision to defend against this blatant profit making exercise. In fact most insurance companies are now starting to defend against these "vultures" as the additional costs are getting out of control.....
Unfortunately this isnt unusual. I have heard of several instances like this with people claiming alsorts of injuries that are just not valid. If the insurance company does wish to defend themselves, ensure that they get a legitimate independant doctor - the ones that claims direct use arent (and I know this for a fact!).
Good luck and a sad story. Do post up progress though - there are plenty of smart people here in PH'land that might be able to help...
Cheers,
Paul
Most insurance companies have a pot of money for dealing with "borderline" cases as it is all about risk at the end of the day. However, they may simply take the decision to defend against this blatant profit making exercise. In fact most insurance companies are now starting to defend against these "vultures" as the additional costs are getting out of control.....
Unfortunately this isnt unusual. I have heard of several instances like this with people claiming alsorts of injuries that are just not valid. If the insurance company does wish to defend themselves, ensure that they get a legitimate independant doctor - the ones that claims direct use arent (and I know this for a fact!).
Good luck and a sad story. Do post up progress though - there are plenty of smart people here in PH'land that might be able to help...
Cheers,
Paul
Your insurance and legal cover will pay for legal expenses and will pay out any damages awarded.
Just ensure that you have documentation needed (i.e. any police docs showing that they were not in the least bit interested in prosecuting you) and also make sure that your friends are really on your side.
If its been over a year there maybe the question of lapse of time also, so it could be that shes on a non starter anyway.
Good luck.
Just ensure that you have documentation needed (i.e. any police docs showing that they were not in the least bit interested in prosecuting you) and also make sure that your friends are really on your side.
If its been over a year there maybe the question of lapse of time also, so it could be that shes on a non starter anyway.
Good luck.
Can't offer any legal advice (sorry) but can on the "injury" front.
IF she does try to sue, you have every right to insist on a full medical (both physical and mental) to ensure that the whiplash claim is valid (or invalid) and the psychological evaluation (believe me, you can't bullshit this lot!) for these supposed panic attacks.
That should be enough to put her off - and even if it doesn't, the shrink will get to the bottom of it.
Other than that, all I can say is, best of luck and that I hope the system works (and justice is done).
IF she does try to sue, you have every right to insist on a full medical (both physical and mental) to ensure that the whiplash claim is valid (or invalid) and the psychological evaluation (believe me, you can't bullshit this lot!) for these supposed panic attacks.
That should be enough to put her off - and even if it doesn't, the shrink will get to the bottom of it.
Other than that, all I can say is, best of luck and that I hope the system works (and justice is done).
Get some photo's of her now before the ball gets rolling. Things like giving it large on the dancefloor, driving, gardening, going shopping. These are all the things that an insurance investigator would do but they won't bother if the likely claim is going to be less than 5 figure and this sounds like it would be. You would probably find that if she then goes legal they would drop the case pdq and before court if shown either the phot's or video. No need for her to even get suspicious if you've got mutual friends just become the geek with the camera and keep getting her included.
Do not get involved - if any paperwork is served, pass it straight to the insurance company - they'll have to deal with it all as the action arises from a motor accident underwritten by them.
Hand it over to them & you'll probably hear no more about it - no further loss in no-claims I think as it'll be tacked on to the existing gubbins from that incident (cost of car write-off etc).
OTOH, playing advocates' advocate (
) you could counter-sue for stress, loss of earnings, defamation and whatever might stick. And she won't be protected from that by an insurance policy like you are...
btw What a spineless whining sack of plankton this woman must be! I'm glad all your (formerly) mutual friends are behind you on this - let's hope the sponging cow reaps what she sows somehow.
>> Edited by CarZee on Thursday 15th August 12:03
Hand it over to them & you'll probably hear no more about it - no further loss in no-claims I think as it'll be tacked on to the existing gubbins from that incident (cost of car write-off etc).
OTOH, playing advocates' advocate (
) you could counter-sue for stress, loss of earnings, defamation and whatever might stick. And she won't be protected from that by an insurance policy like you are... btw What a spineless whining sack of plankton this woman must be! I'm glad all your (formerly) mutual friends are behind you on this - let's hope the sponging cow reaps what she sows somehow.
>> Edited by CarZee on Thursday 15th August 12:03
quote:
Your insurance and legal cover will pay for legal expenses and will pay out any damages awarded.
100% true.. this is the Third Party liability bit on your policy and you've probably got £1millions worth of cover.
I expect this person will soon run into difficulty due to what you have described, and the payouts still are not worth the hassle.
I myself was in an RTA, rear ended whilst stationary, 3 weeks with a Collar on, Headaches, back pain, 18 months of physio, persistant backpain beyond 2 years (its a benchmark) and still to this day.. it eventualy went to court 2 1/2 years after the accident and I got 3k.. (having been offered £3.5 a few months before and told to turn it down by my "legal team"
) She'll soon realise she's not got much of a case..
Cheers,
Matt.
PS.. you've got a wierd friend !!
Oh yes and if your one of the "cambridge area" PHer's email me through my profile as I have a friend local to you who does all this for a job for insurers/local authorities and I'm sure would do a proffesional evidence gathering "private job" and appear as a witness if needed for a fraction of the cost of going to a PI agency.
quote:
OTOH, playing advocates' advocate (
True, but if she owns a house, her liability insurance will cover her for that so I wouldn't bother..
quote:Full personal liability cover? Really? I'd be surprised..
True, but if she owns a house, her liability insurance will cover her for that so I wouldn't bother..
I'd have thought the liability cover attached to your building & contents insurance would only protect you against actions brought in respect of injuries/damage caused on/by your property.
quote:
quote:Full personal liability cover? Really? I'd be surprised..
True, but if she owns a house, her liability insurance will cover her for that so I wouldn't bother..
I'd have thought the liability cover attached to your building & contents insurance would only protect you against actions brought in respect of injuries/damage caused on/by your property.
Nope, its a part of your life insurance attached to your morgage I think... eg: House owners dog knocks over someone on the street cos its running around unsupervised/not under control... the person knocked over can make a claim off the personal liablility cover of the houseowner.
Cheers
Matt.
As previously posted all of this will be covered within the original claim of the written off car.
Your bitch money grabbing ex friend could be in for a bit of a shock. To get any serious money she'll have to spend a lot of money upfront.
Your insurers will look at this and request a full medical report for both conditions from a relevent medical professional. ie one report from an orthopaedic surgeon and another report from a psychiatrist. She will have to pay the cost of these reports upfront. 4 years ago I was injured in a crash caused by a drink driver. One medical report from an orthopaedic surgeon cost me £500 alone.
I have heard that some of these "broke fingernail make a £million" companies have medical people on retainer. She may see some of these people and avoid the upfront cost, but a lot of companies treat these costs as "your" disbursements which you have to pay for in the event of an unsuccessful claim.
On the other hand they may offer £1,500 to **** off, off which "broke fingernail make a £million" will take £1000 plus VAT and you ex mate will be left with a couple of £100 and no friends. Stupid bitch.
DAZ
PS She will have to prove that her condition was caused by the incident, any history of backpain etc will substantially reduce her ability to claim.
Your bitch money grabbing ex friend could be in for a bit of a shock. To get any serious money she'll have to spend a lot of money upfront.
Your insurers will look at this and request a full medical report for both conditions from a relevent medical professional. ie one report from an orthopaedic surgeon and another report from a psychiatrist. She will have to pay the cost of these reports upfront. 4 years ago I was injured in a crash caused by a drink driver. One medical report from an orthopaedic surgeon cost me £500 alone.
I have heard that some of these "broke fingernail make a £million" companies have medical people on retainer. She may see some of these people and avoid the upfront cost, but a lot of companies treat these costs as "your" disbursements which you have to pay for in the event of an unsuccessful claim.
On the other hand they may offer £1,500 to **** off, off which "broke fingernail make a £million" will take £1000 plus VAT and you ex mate will be left with a couple of £100 and no friends. Stupid bitch.
DAZ
PS She will have to prove that her condition was caused by the incident, any history of backpain etc will substantially reduce her ability to claim.
quote:
Get some photo's of her now before the ball gets rolling. Things like giving it large on the dancefloor, driving, gardening, going shopping. These are all the things that an insurance investigator would do but they won't bother if the likely claim is going to be less than 5 figure and this sounds like it would be. You would probably find that if she then goes legal they would drop the case pdq and before court if shown either the phot's or video. No need for her to even get suspicious if you've got mutual friends just become the geek with the camera and keep getting her included.
Top thinking there Mel! Could even get some pictures of her being a passenger in a car too. I have known a couple of people in the past use PI's (dont have to go this route by the way) to get photo proof of things. The look on peoples faces when it goes to court - funny aint the word.
But, still a good idea on the piccies though. Solicitors would laugh it out of court and there is one sad old cow with no friends and a nice legal bill (hopefully). In fact thats what sent the other blood sucking company down the pan - too many claims they had no hope of getting through. Lets hope that the legal system claims the rest of these vampire scrotums....
Cheers,
Paul
Whooo
all too exciting...
Slow down,
do nothing until you hear in writing from her or her solicitors.
Dont rely on what a mate of a mate says she may do. If and when any threatening documents come through, as one of the post correlty said pass all documentation (after taking photocopies) onto your insurance company to deal with 100%. Dont acknowledge dont respond unless via your insurance company.
Hope this helps, but just wait at this stage.
all too exciting...
Slow down,
do nothing until you hear in writing from her or her solicitors.
Dont rely on what a mate of a mate says she may do. If and when any threatening documents come through, as one of the post correlty said pass all documentation (after taking photocopies) onto your insurance company to deal with 100%. Dont acknowledge dont respond unless via your insurance company.
Hope this helps, but just wait at this stage.
The bastard in me hopes that this goes to court so you can mention her generous offer of a slice of the pie. Boy, will that impress the beak. Can't imagine her solicitor will recommend she proceeds once he is given the full picture. Just hope your insurer isn't spineless enough to cave in at the first hurdle. Can't be much fun waiting to see if this is really going ahead. Good luck ... and if she's so keen on making claims, why not oblige her by fire bombing her house?
Firstly, I should declare that I work in litigation (as a forensic accountant not as a lawyer). I make my living by investigating loss of earnings and pension etc suffered by people as a result of road, medical and other accidents - normally large cases only. Hopefully the following posting will therefore be objective!
If you are being sued, pass all of the details onto your insurer - they will handle it and you should let them know at the first available opportunity. Your passenger will have to prove her losses, which will require medical evidence. If she is complaining about panic attacks she may need to get psychological evidence to support her case. If she is claiming physical injuries also, then not accepting treatment at the time of the accident may reduce the likelihood of her success (although if she went that evening or next day that would not be a problem - whiplash injuries take time to become symptomatic (technical term).
If you have got evidence that suggests she is not telling the truth by all means pass it on to the insurers - but don't start stalking her as that will just end up with you being in trouble.
As far as I am concerned, the "being sued by a friend is a no-no" is a non-starter. If you have injured someone (which I agree appears to be subject to some doubt) then why should you/your insurance not pay up because they are a friend? Take responsibility for your own actions! Being sued by a friend for an accident you caused is upsetting (unfortunately I know from personal experience) but that is no excuse to criticise the person suing you (subject to whether or not they really are injured, which is for the medics/lawyers/the Court to determine.
And don't even think about suing her - you won't get anywhere.
PS - just to make myself completely unpopular
, you appear to be talking about the accident as if it were not really your fault. Sounds more like it was your fault as you were going too fast for the conditions
If you are being sued, pass all of the details onto your insurer - they will handle it and you should let them know at the first available opportunity. Your passenger will have to prove her losses, which will require medical evidence. If she is complaining about panic attacks she may need to get psychological evidence to support her case. If she is claiming physical injuries also, then not accepting treatment at the time of the accident may reduce the likelihood of her success (although if she went that evening or next day that would not be a problem - whiplash injuries take time to become symptomatic (technical term
). If you have got evidence that suggests she is not telling the truth by all means pass it on to the insurers - but don't start stalking her as that will just end up with you being in trouble.
As far as I am concerned, the "being sued by a friend is a no-no" is a non-starter. If you have injured someone (which I agree appears to be subject to some doubt) then why should you/your insurance not pay up because they are a friend? Take responsibility for your own actions! Being sued by a friend for an accident you caused is upsetting (unfortunately I know from personal experience) but that is no excuse to criticise the person suing you (subject to whether or not they really are injured, which is for the medics/lawyers/the Court to determine.
And don't even think about suing her - you won't get anywhere.
PS - just to make myself completely unpopular
, you appear to be talking about the accident as if it were not really your fault. Sounds more like it was your fault as you were going too fast for the conditionsGassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff