Parking Ticket Quandry - Ticket Office or Beak?
Discussion
I'm in a quandry as to which way to approach binning this parking ticket I got the other day.
The issue is that where I was parked, there is a yellow line, but it is old, barely visible and has patchworks of tarmac over it. When they painted over the line, they painted it 12 ft shorter than the old line, and terminated it with a 'T'.
So although I was parked on a yellow line, as far as I am concerned, technically, I'm not infringing as I was parked on the unmaintained section of the line, beyond the new T piece.
So, a couple of questions:
Should I write to the parking ticket office and explain all this, and ask them to rescind the penalty, or should I keep schtum and go straight to court?
My thinking is that as soon as I write to the ticket office with this, they'll get someone out to repaint the line. Supposing that they did and that they refused to rescind the penalty, and it goes to court, how will this affect my chances?
Will the fact that they repainted the line confirm to the court that technically they were in error issuing the ticket, or will the court take the view that as they've just gone ahead and painted it, it was obviously always a restricted parking area in which they were entitled to issue a ticket in spite of the markings present tat that time?
I have taken some photos of the line and the street and they show reasonable clearly the case I intend to make. But, I took the pics with my digital camera. Are these pictures admissible as evidence in front of the beak, or should I get some regular paper photos taken pronto?
The issue is that where I was parked, there is a yellow line, but it is old, barely visible and has patchworks of tarmac over it. When they painted over the line, they painted it 12 ft shorter than the old line, and terminated it with a 'T'.
So although I was parked on a yellow line, as far as I am concerned, technically, I'm not infringing as I was parked on the unmaintained section of the line, beyond the new T piece.
So, a couple of questions:
Should I write to the parking ticket office and explain all this, and ask them to rescind the penalty, or should I keep schtum and go straight to court?
My thinking is that as soon as I write to the ticket office with this, they'll get someone out to repaint the line. Supposing that they did and that they refused to rescind the penalty, and it goes to court, how will this affect my chances?
Will the fact that they repainted the line confirm to the court that technically they were in error issuing the ticket, or will the court take the view that as they've just gone ahead and painted it, it was obviously always a restricted parking area in which they were entitled to issue a ticket in spite of the markings present tat that time?
I have taken some photos of the line and the street and they show reasonable clearly the case I intend to make. But, I took the pics with my digital camera. Are these pictures admissible as evidence in front of the beak, or should I get some regular paper photos taken pronto?
fwiw, I'd be inclined to use real film for this, to save any potential for argument. I'd also use a daily newspaper in shot, if possible, to help verify the date. (though I can never remember which way that works, as it could always be an old paper. I've seen it in hostage stuff on the tv, though. I think it was the Professionals).
Good luck!
Good luck!
quote:Yeah - I'd thought about putting my car there again with the ticket on it (and newspaper?) and taking a photo.
fwiw, I'd be inclined to use real film for this, to save any potential for argument. I'd also use a daily newspaper in shot, if possible, to help verify the date. (though I can never remember which way that works, as it could always be an old paper. I've seen it in hostage stuff on the tv, though. I think it was the Professionals).
At the end of the day though, you're under oathe to tell the truth in court and on that basis, you're given a certain amount of credibility for what you say. Especially as an upstanding (ha!
) member of society and not a bludging scrote.Happened similar to me a short while ago. I parked in a permit holders' parking bay thinking it was a pay and display, as the lines showing which was which were almost completely worn off and I hadn't seen the permit holders' sign. Came back to the car to find a warden writing a ticket. I pointed all this out but he said I was getting the ticket anyway.
I told him I'd be writing to the ticket office quoting his collar no. - nothing aggressive, I just wanted him to remember what I had pointed out on the off chance that they asked him.
I wrote politely to the ticket office, who said pay up. But there's a convenient streamlined appeals process you can use ...
So I started the ball rolling on the appeal. Almost immediately the district court wrote back and said, OK we'll drop it. And a few days later they were out repainting the lines.
I have in the past had tickets dropped by the district court. But it seemed to me in this case that they will only drop it if they would otherwise have to deal with the appeal - ie screw as much money out of people who don't want to appeal
.
Anyway - I think it's worth writing to the district court (or whoever) as a first step. (Incidentally I saw a letter a friend of mine got back in similar circumstances - it said, roughly, OK we'll drop the ticket in this instance but in future please moderate your language when writing to this office
)
It's probably worth getting film pictures of the evidence, if it's still there, as back up. But film can be tampered with as well; I guess if you stand up in court and swear they're true, that's as reliable as you're going to be able to make your evidence.
PS I didn't have any photos at all.
>> Edited by JohnL on Wednesday 26th June 10:59
I told him I'd be writing to the ticket office quoting his collar no. - nothing aggressive, I just wanted him to remember what I had pointed out on the off chance that they asked him.
I wrote politely to the ticket office, who said pay up. But there's a convenient streamlined appeals process you can use ...
So I started the ball rolling on the appeal. Almost immediately the district court wrote back and said, OK we'll drop it. And a few days later they were out repainting the lines.
I have in the past had tickets dropped by the district court. But it seemed to me in this case that they will only drop it if they would otherwise have to deal with the appeal - ie screw as much money out of people who don't want to appeal
. Anyway - I think it's worth writing to the district court (or whoever) as a first step. (Incidentally I saw a letter a friend of mine got back in similar circumstances - it said, roughly, OK we'll drop the ticket in this instance but in future please moderate your language when writing to this office
) It's probably worth getting film pictures of the evidence, if it's still there, as back up. But film can be tampered with as well; I guess if you stand up in court and swear they're true, that's as reliable as you're going to be able to make your evidence.
PS I didn't have any photos at all.
>> Edited by JohnL on Wednesday 26th June 10:59
Hmm the ticket (issued in Surrey) gives only the option of paying or going to court... no mention of an appeals process.
I guess it's the latter then - I'd just rather do it in writing than having to take a day off work over a poxy 30quid ticket. But I'm not paying this one - I'm mightily Pee'd off with getting tickets that are unjust, petty or plain malicious. I've paid the last two but I'm not bloody paying this one!
Think I'll write to the ticket office first nonetheless...
Cut to Carzee la-la land (lest anyone think I'm serious):
I guess it's the latter then - I'd just rather do it in writing than having to take a day off work over a poxy 30quid ticket. But I'm not paying this one - I'm mightily Pee'd off with getting tickets that are unjust, petty or plain malicious. I've paid the last two but I'm not bloody paying this one!
Think I'll write to the ticket office first nonetheless...
Cut to Carzee la-la land (lest anyone think I'm serious):
quote:
I'd also quite like to bludgeon a traffic warden. What pathological deformity must one have to become a warden? Is diminished responsibility applicable when up before the beak after belting one?
I can't remember if the appeal was mentioned on the actual ticket or only after I'd written to them. But I think it was a local initiative.
However, I've had previous ones dropped when an appeal process wasn't mentioned. Still worth the effort of writing I'd have thought. I've protested maybe 5 tickets like this and had at least 3 dropped - one as described above.
I suspect there's a strong inclination raise a bit of cash if they think they can get away with it, but if they realise someone's prepared to make life difficult for them they'll take the easy option.
However, I've had previous ones dropped when an appeal process wasn't mentioned. Still worth the effort of writing I'd have thought. I've protested maybe 5 tickets like this and had at least 3 dropped - one as described above.
I suspect there's a strong inclination raise a bit of cash if they think they can get away with it, but if they realise someone's prepared to make life difficult for them they'll take the easy option.
Argue it with them........ I've done it a couple of times and got off on both occasions..... They want an easy life, not draggin everyone through the courts process for the sake of £30. If everyone argued the toss with every ticket issued, we could collapse the system very very quickly!
Exactly the same thing happened to me in Wimbledon Village last year. Line shortened, I parked on the bit with a worn out line, no signs, nothing.
Wrote to Merton council saying that I had parked on a section of road that appeared to be restriction free blah blah blah and they replied about 3 months later saying I was not going to be fined.
If they do repaint the line there will be record of when that work was completed as it will probably be a contractor who does it so I dont think it would be neccesary to ratify your story, but theres no harm in being doubley sure.
Matt.
Wrote to Merton council saying that I had parked on a section of road that appeared to be restriction free blah blah blah and they replied about 3 months later saying I was not going to be fined.
If they do repaint the line there will be record of when that work was completed as it will probably be a contractor who does it so I dont think it would be neccesary to ratify your story, but theres no harm in being doubley sure.
Matt.
quote:
Argue it with them........ I've done it a couple of times and got off on both occasions..... They want an easy life, not draggin everyone through the courts process for the sake of £30.
Anyone think MondeoMan's been hanging out with Outlaw.. ??
>> Edited by M@H on Wednesday 26th June 13:08
no but hes learning.
as foe parking tickes the a fing paing in the arss
had so many i lost count my mrs is disabled and has an orange badge. I lost cout of how mant time its been legaly parked with the badge and disk displyed and the tossers still put a ticket on it.
got feedup with soting them out ended up going down the town hall to find out why the hell orange baged are useless in my town.
and handed em writen notice that if i got another one i was sue and call the press.
never payed a one and wont in this life time.
>> Edited by outlaw on Wednesday 26th June 23:06
as foe parking tickes the a fing paing in the arss
had so many i lost count my mrs is disabled and has an orange badge. I lost cout of how mant time its been legaly parked with the badge and disk displyed and the tossers still put a ticket on it.
got feedup with soting them out ended up going down the town hall to find out why the hell orange baged are useless in my town.
and handed em writen notice that if i got another one i was sue and call the press.
never payed a one and wont in this life time.
>> Edited by outlaw on Wednesday 26th June 23:06
carzee
The line must be in conjunction with a sign, usually attached to a lamp post or fixed to a wall. These are periodically placed along the length of the lines jurisdiction.
Go and have a look where the nearest one is fixed. If it is a long way from the part you parked on, I would suggest that you challenge it.
Check the ticket very carefully to see if there are any errors on it like date, time, registration, name of road etc. These are you best lines of defence.
(
should I really be telling you all this!)
The line must be in conjunction with a sign, usually attached to a lamp post or fixed to a wall. These are periodically placed along the length of the lines jurisdiction.
Go and have a look where the nearest one is fixed. If it is a long way from the part you parked on, I would suggest that you challenge it.
Check the ticket very carefully to see if there are any errors on it like date, time, registration, name of road etc. These are you best lines of defence.
(
should I really be telling you all this!)I had a similar thing where they sent out two parking ticket letters asking for £120 from me but on closer inspection they had my reg wrong so I sent back a nice letter saying I wasn't responsible.
The good thing to note is that when I spoke to the ticket office they said that the fine WOULD NOT increase whilst I was challenging it. So you could kick up a fuss and go down kicking and screaming (oh-er misses!) and still only pay the stated amount.
The good thing to note is that when I spoke to the ticket office they said that the fine WOULD NOT increase whilst I was challenging it. So you could kick up a fuss and go down kicking and screaming (oh-er misses!) and still only pay the stated amount.
quote:
Thankyou for your recent letter relating to fixed penalty notice number XXXXXXXX
The decision to issue the notice is an operational police choice, however, the traffic warden has reported that the notice was issued because your vehicle was parked on a single yellow line where waiting is prohibited 0830 to 1830 hours and partly on the public footpath. In these circumstances, I am not prepared to intervene in the fixed penalty procedure
I would also point out that the Extended Fixed Penalty System is a means whereby, through payment of a fixed penalty, a driver may obtain immunity against conviction for the alleged offence. It is not intended to be a means whereby the Police may undertake any judicial consideration of the facts. Fromn the information contained in the fixed penalty notice you will be aware that, on receipt of a ticket, there are two options provided by law by which to discharge this matter. One is to pay the penalty and the other is to request a court hearing. There is no alternative appeals procedure.
If you wish to dispute the decision to issue this notice you should consider exercising your right to request a court hearing and place your mitigation before the magistrate
You Cnuts!!! Why would I wish to place mitigation before the court in light of the fact that I am guilty of no offence?
This is pure theft and Surrey Police are complicit in widespread fraud and deception.
So I can either pay their £30 protection money or I can lose a days fees (considerably more than £30) to fight this thing in court.
I FCUKING HATE TRAFFIC WARDENS!!!! And Surrey police can kiss my arse. I'll see you thieving bastards in court.
B@st@rds. If my experience is anything to go by though, they may withdraw once they get your notice of going to court. Maybe ...
If you win do you think you could recover your expenses, ie loss of earnings, as well?
I picked one up yesterday as well. No point in protesting this, plain stupid by me.
If you win do you think you could recover your expenses, ie loss of earnings, as well?
I picked one up yesterday as well. No point in protesting this, plain stupid by me.
Car Zee,
You should pay the fine and not waste the courts time. It seems to me that too many people are using excuses to wriggle out of their commitments.
Your driving licence and your car should be seen as a privilege and not a god given right.
If you don't want to get fined, then drive and park within the law.
Yours,
M Brown.
You should pay the fine and not waste the courts time. It seems to me that too many people are using excuses to wriggle out of their commitments.
Your driving licence and your car should be seen as a privilege and not a god given right.
If you don't want to get fined, then drive and park within the law.
Yours,
M Brown.
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