Black Box sir?
Discussion
Came accross this
www.roads.dft.gov.uk/vehicle/vse/research/evsc/index.htm
Within the next 11 or so years we may have black boxes to control speed? Or have I missed something, still reading
www.roads.dft.gov.uk/vehicle/vse/research/evsc/index.htm
Within the next 11 or so years we may have black boxes to control speed? Or have I missed something, still reading
It's not gonna happen - if it did, there are countries in Europe that would go back to bed until it was all cleared up - there'd be chaos, plus there are ramifications reaching far and wide in every direction which they'd never be able to overcome. Not in the next 11 years anyway - 20-25 maybe.
OTOH That's talking about the whole of Europe. There are enough spineless inhabitants of this country who would swallow it whole and ask for more.
OTOH That's talking about the whole of Europe. There are enough spineless inhabitants of this country who would swallow it whole and ask for more.
quote:
Yeah but - have you driven in France? or Italy
? Or no speed limit Germany?
Do you see the drivers there accepting that kind of control?
Yes, yes, yes and no.
Whatever the Italian government does, most folks ignore.
Ok the limit is about 130k, but most folks are at 140-160.
German government is more honest, and it knows that
putting in speed limits on the autobahn is
mostly a vote loser.
Although interestingly, if you travel on the autobahn
on the west bank of the Rhine, it has a limit of 130kmh,
and is as dull as ditchwater, but on the east bank (A3)
there is no limit, and it's a fun road.
Of course, here in the UK, they are such a bunch of sheep
they'll accept it, and come back asking for more.
Such is the difference in national personalities.
DCB there were only three options
Yes the different countries approach to EU legislation is interesting.
UK: Argue for a while if you don't like the legislation, then buckle, accept it and implement it.
Everyone else: Accept it without question then ignore it.
And then everyone in mainland Europe gets to moan about what bad Europeans we are by arguing about the legislation!
Yes the different countries approach to EU legislation is interesting.
UK: Argue for a while if you don't like the legislation, then buckle, accept it and implement it.
Everyone else: Accept it without question then ignore it.
And then everyone in mainland Europe gets to moan about what bad Europeans we are by arguing about the legislation!
Let them briong it on..... then we get a boffin to change the black box so we can over-ride it, they take all the revenue cameras down because they "control the traffic" and we can do what we want - thaty cant hit us for speeding because the car "cant do it" .....
What a load of old bollocks. Does that mean that every car will travel AT the speed limit, or will you only be able to do the limit - what about overtaking etc. How can they guarantee accuracy of units wrt speed measurement - if the untis are just a single %age point out, tehnthis will vastly INCREASE congestion, not reduce it as they want. Accidents will increase because everyone will get frustrated and try and overtake and not be able to get any faster..
How can we get this stopped before Nanny Blair gets his hands on it???
What a load of old bollocks. Does that mean that every car will travel AT the speed limit, or will you only be able to do the limit - what about overtaking etc. How can they guarantee accuracy of units wrt speed measurement - if the untis are just a single %age point out, tehnthis will vastly INCREASE congestion, not reduce it as they want. Accidents will increase because everyone will get frustrated and try and overtake and not be able to get any faster..
How can we get this stopped before Nanny Blair gets his hands on it???
To get this implemented governments would have to make it law, which I'm sure would go down like a sh*t sandwich and be a definite vote loser....then they would have to force everyone to get the gizmos fitted - which the government would have to pay for because if they tried to force people to pay for their own the uptake would be rather slow .
. The uptake would be about a year for older cars.
Reason? it would become an MOT requirement. No MOT, no insurance, you're nicked sonny. They will make roadside cameras that can detect if you have a speed controller fitted, and it will make the gatso thing look like a wonderful dream.
However, "chipped" boxes, or field-affected units will become rife. New laws wil make meddling a hanging offense, and the nazis will be stopping anyone who is not conforming for a spot check of the control unit.
On the PLUS side, the Germans & French will not have anything to do with it, so if it ain't approved of in Europe, it isn't going to happen.
Speaking of which, I for one can't wait for us to become part of Europe. Then atleast we have the right to silence, cheaper cars, cheaper fuel, higher speed limits, lower road tax... and BLiar can't mess about so much. Still can't see any downsides to this.
rgds.
Reason? it would become an MOT requirement. No MOT, no insurance, you're nicked sonny. They will make roadside cameras that can detect if you have a speed controller fitted, and it will make the gatso thing look like a wonderful dream.
However, "chipped" boxes, or field-affected units will become rife. New laws wil make meddling a hanging offense, and the nazis will be stopping anyone who is not conforming for a spot check of the control unit.
On the PLUS side, the Germans & French will not have anything to do with it, so if it ain't approved of in Europe, it isn't going to happen.
Speaking of which, I for one can't wait for us to become part of Europe. Then atleast we have the right to silence, cheaper cars, cheaper fuel, higher speed limits, lower road tax... and BLiar can't mess about so much. Still can't see any downsides to this.
rgds.
quote:
Speaking of which, I for one can't wait for us to become part of Europe. Then atleast we have the right to silence, cheaper cars, cheaper fuel, higher speed limits, lower road tax... and BLiar can't mess about so much. Still can't see any downsides to this.
How does higher direct taxes grab you ?
Fancy 50-60% income tax rates ?
Or how about 22% VAT ?
These things happen in Europe. Denmark has 220%
(yes two hundred and twenty %) tax on new car purchases.
How about the same interest rates from Athens to
Dublin, from Copenhagen to Malaga ?
And you have to carry national ID card at all times.
Mind you, you are allowed to drink beer in
a pub after 11pm, and drive your car faster
(in Germany a lot faster).
I actually worked on this project a few years ago... although can't say I agreed with the reasons behind it.
However, the UK is not the only country looking at these sort of devices and EVSC is not a new concept. Germany, Sweden, Norway, France, Spain... they all have their project running, and slightly diffeent ways of executing the product.
As for the "chipping the box" - simple, just make it tamper-proof... you alter it, the car won't start...
Overtaking? - Well there was talk of an over-taking button, that operates for a period of time (risky) or the box adding up the amount of times you use it and you pay for the time over the limit... but then you get into social engineering.
Realistically, I don't think you have anything to worry about... remember this was a RESEARCH project to see what could be done. All of this has come out before, and was on Drivel, Tomorrow's World, and even the BBC.
I'm quite happy to field questions on the subject, but please respect the fact that I will only re-iterate what is in the published documents. I will not enter into discussions about things that could harm my previous employers, nor discuss anything that may still be confidential.
However, the UK is not the only country looking at these sort of devices and EVSC is not a new concept. Germany, Sweden, Norway, France, Spain... they all have their project running, and slightly diffeent ways of executing the product.
As for the "chipping the box" - simple, just make it tamper-proof... you alter it, the car won't start...
Overtaking? - Well there was talk of an over-taking button, that operates for a period of time (risky) or the box adding up the amount of times you use it and you pay for the time over the limit... but then you get into social engineering.
Realistically, I don't think you have anything to worry about... remember this was a RESEARCH project to see what could be done. All of this has come out before, and was on Drivel, Tomorrow's World, and even the BBC.
I'm quite happy to field questions on the subject, but please respect the fact that I will only re-iterate what is in the published documents. I will not enter into discussions about things that could harm my previous employers, nor discuss anything that may still be confidential.
On that topic, there seems to be a general rule that the law cannot be made retrospectively. For example, cars that were not required by law to have seatbelts cannot be required to have them even after new cars were required to be fitted with them. Same goes for fog lights and so on. Can we expect the same approach to speed limiters?
quote:
On that topic, there seems to be a general rule that the law cannot be made retrospectively. For example, cars that were not required by law to have seatbelts cannot be required to have them even after new cars were required to be fitted with them. Same goes for fog lights and so on. Can we expect the same approach to speed limiters?
Not structly true, my kit car came under new MOT laws even though it was registered without certain features. One example was that the fuel cap had to have a seal. The one I registered the car with was an old style jag cap (no seal on that), in the end I had a temporary cap which had a rubber seal which was then altered to be held sealed by the original cap. So if kit car regulations came be backdated I suspect other cars could as well.
On a more positive note I don't think the black box will come into place as there is a key safety issue, ie cars changing speed automatically could be potentially dangerous. Equally the reportining of speeding bit could not be implemented 'cos a car could go onto private land or a track day.
>> Edited by smeagol on Friday 28th June 23:54
quote:Can't see the (hugely powerful) car companies going for that - new car sales would plummet like lemmings and the salesmen and shareholders would follow shortly after.
On that topic, there seems to be a general rule that the law cannot be made retrospectively. For example, cars that were not required by law to have seatbelts cannot be required to have them even after new cars were required to be fitted with them. Same goes for fog lights and so on. Can we expect the same approach to speed limiters?
>> Edited by CarZee on Friday 28th June 23:56
I like this first dimension elite power going on here. i.e. They're so beyond us they'd make something that would be able to tell if we tampered with it and stop the car/fine us/drive us to jail...etc
Where did all this faith in the abilities of those in charge come from all of a sudden? What one man can do, another can undo.
Look at hacking, look at every form of piracy going. Pirate Console games? Get a chip fitted by your LOCAL games shop to play all those 'backups' you have.
Total rot. The more oppressive it is the more determined the effort to circumnavigate. That's why when the road tolls based on GPS is compulsory the state computers will wonder why there's only 3 cars on britain's roads 2 of them are Prescott's and the other has only just been driven off the garage forecourt!
We should join the EU so that we can get the French public to protest on our behalf. They may the most self absorbed nation in Europe but at least they're activist. No speed camera problem in France... that's because all the cameras'd all end up mutilated and dumped outside the Presidents office along with 100,000 litres of sillage.
funkihamsta
>> Edited by funkihamsta on Saturday 29th June 15:53
Where did all this faith in the abilities of those in charge come from all of a sudden? What one man can do, another can undo.
Look at hacking, look at every form of piracy going. Pirate Console games? Get a chip fitted by your LOCAL games shop to play all those 'backups' you have.
Total rot. The more oppressive it is the more determined the effort to circumnavigate. That's why when the road tolls based on GPS is compulsory the state computers will wonder why there's only 3 cars on britain's roads 2 of them are Prescott's and the other has only just been driven off the garage forecourt!
We should join the EU so that we can get the French public to protest on our behalf. They may the most self absorbed nation in Europe but at least they're activist. No speed camera problem in France... that's because all the cameras'd all end up mutilated and dumped outside the Presidents office along with 100,000 litres of sillage.
funkihamsta
>> Edited by funkihamsta on Saturday 29th June 15:53
And another thing... it would be funny if it did come out because the first cars to come under the thumb would be new ones.
There are still rules like not needing seatbelts in cars before a certain age etc...so logically some cars would never get done or they wouldn't be do-able. Just imagine there would be blokes in pubs in 20 years time talking about cars:
"Yeah had a go in an original Vauxhall Chevette, blimey that thing could fly..."
There are still rules like not needing seatbelts in cars before a certain age etc...so logically some cars would never get done or they wouldn't be do-able. Just imagine there would be blokes in pubs in 20 years time talking about cars:
"Yeah had a go in an original Vauxhall Chevette, blimey that thing could fly..."
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