Motorway Dangers
Discussion
Returning home from Brooklands on Saturday along the M25,traffic was relatively light, the sun was out,lane discipline was as good as it ever gets on the M25 
and the outside lane was flowing smoothly at about 85mph, with everyone leaving a decent gap to the car in front. Up ahead, brake lights start to come on and I can see a knot of traffic building up in all four lanes. Cars that were previously well spaced out are now nose to tail and jostling for position, so I ease off to maintain a gap in front. Of course the fcukwit in the Mercedes Van does no such thing, and stations himself about 2 inches off my rear bumper 
. Not a nice feeling when you sit as low as you do in a Mantis.
And the cause? Plod cruising down the inside lane at a gentle sixtyish. Now I,m not blaming plod for this unhappy state of affairs (oooh that goes against the grain
), but I would be interested to hear the views of our Plod contributors, regarding the action they would take if everyone just carried on past them at 85mph, thus keeping the traffic flowing and reducing the danger of a nasty incident. 
and the outside lane was flowing smoothly at about 85mph, with everyone leaving a decent gap to the car in front. Up ahead, brake lights start to come on and I can see a knot of traffic building up in all four lanes. Cars that were previously well spaced out are now nose to tail and jostling for position, so I ease off to maintain a gap in front. Of course the fcukwit in the Mercedes Van does no such thing, and stations himself about 2 inches off my rear bumper . Not a nice feeling when you sit as low as you do in a Mantis. And the cause? Plod cruising down the inside lane at a gentle sixtyish. Now I,m not blaming plod for this unhappy state of affairs (oooh that goes against the grain
), but I would be interested to hear the views of our Plod contributors, regarding the action they would take if everyone just carried on past them at 85mph, thus keeping the traffic flowing and reducing the danger of a nasty incident. Ill give you an idea of what would happen. Someone would eventually become the sacrificial lamb,get pulled and stuck in the book. The rest would then be free to continue as they wished.
I am no longer on T div but still drive a marked vehicle. Everyone knows the limit and if I am cruising at 60 I really dont give a F**k what speed anyone goes past as long as they dont take the P**s.
What really hacks most of us off is the time when we want to make progress but cannot justify breaking the limit (i.e. late for a meeting or briefing and wanting to get there ASAP)
Therefore I do 70mph. You would not believe the number of drivers that overtake at 80mph, 85mph 90mph, a few that are really unobservant at 100mph or more (It happens)
Are these people stupid, daring, like a challenge, or just plain sticking two fingers up?
Those that just slide past at 80 then normally sit in lane two and slow back down to 70ish. Why bother overtaking in the first place?
The problem with driving a marked vehicle is that if you drive at 60 it bunches the traffic up.
If you drive at 70, people overtake you and other drivers who have been reported for speeding then write in and complain that the marked vehicle index A123ABC did not stop the speeder therefore a neglect of duty (sort of attitude = I got done so why isnt he?)
If you exceed the limit without blues on to get somewhere pronto, people that have been reported for speeding take the vehicle index number A123ABC and write in complaining that they have been done for speeding and seen a marked car doing the same therefore an abuse of authority
(sort of attitude = why can he get away with it when I cant)
SORT OF A NO WIN SITUATION
Whatever speed you travel at on dual carriageway roads, someone always ends up p**sed off. (whether you or the cop)
When someone really gets on my t*ts over this I pull them and say
" Have you got Kids?"
Answer "yes" (or no gets an explanation of what is is like. I try and limit this to a maximum of half an hour as I then have relieved most of my stress!)
" Do you have rules in your house?"
Answer " Yes"
" How do you feel when one of them knows the rules but keeps pushing the limits to see how much they can get away with? "
Answer (normally something like) " p*ssed off ", "Angry", "hacked off", "grabbing hold of it and shaking the living daylights out of it"....
" How do you think I feel when you know the rules but just keep pushing and pushing? You are either winding me up on purpose or so unobservant that you should not be driving at this speed."
I for one don't give a monkeys what speed people drive at until they get it wrong, OR DO IT IN AN INAPPROPRIATE PLACE or they are in the presence of a marked Police vehicle.
To ignore the fact that it is there in my view shows a complete lack of respect (why should that worry me when kids are taught to disrespect any authority these days if it doesn't suit them)
Drive as fast as you like when there are no marked units around and you take your chances with the unmarked ones and the hidden cameras, but please show a bit of courtesy when a marked unit is around.
It may save you an FPT from a cop wanting to relieve some stress or at least an unecessary delay while he explains the error of your ways and his frustration
>> Edited by Madcop on Monday 3rd June 13:47
>> Edited by Madcop on Monday 3rd June 14:05
>> Edited by Madcop on Monday 3rd June 20:31
I am no longer on T div but still drive a marked vehicle. Everyone knows the limit and if I am cruising at 60 I really dont give a F**k what speed anyone goes past as long as they dont take the P**s.
What really hacks most of us off is the time when we want to make progress but cannot justify breaking the limit (i.e. late for a meeting or briefing and wanting to get there ASAP)
Therefore I do 70mph. You would not believe the number of drivers that overtake at 80mph, 85mph 90mph, a few that are really unobservant at 100mph or more (It happens)
Are these people stupid, daring, like a challenge, or just plain sticking two fingers up?
Those that just slide past at 80 then normally sit in lane two and slow back down to 70ish. Why bother overtaking in the first place?
The problem with driving a marked vehicle is that if you drive at 60 it bunches the traffic up.
If you drive at 70, people overtake you and other drivers who have been reported for speeding then write in and complain that the marked vehicle index A123ABC did not stop the speeder therefore a neglect of duty (sort of attitude = I got done so why isnt he?)
If you exceed the limit without blues on to get somewhere pronto, people that have been reported for speeding take the vehicle index number A123ABC and write in complaining that they have been done for speeding and seen a marked car doing the same therefore an abuse of authority
(sort of attitude = why can he get away with it when I cant)
SORT OF A NO WIN SITUATION
Whatever speed you travel at on dual carriageway roads, someone always ends up p**sed off. (whether you or the cop)
When someone really gets on my t*ts over this I pull them and say
" Have you got Kids?"
Answer "yes" (or no gets an explanation of what is is like. I try and limit this to a maximum of half an hour as I then have relieved most of my stress!
) " Do you have rules in your house?"
Answer " Yes"
" How do you feel when one of them knows the rules but keeps pushing the limits to see how much they can get away with? "
Answer (normally something like) " p*ssed off ", "Angry", "hacked off", "grabbing hold of it and shaking the living daylights out of it"....
" How do you think I feel when you know the rules but just keep pushing and pushing? You are either winding me up on purpose or so unobservant that you should not be driving at this speed."
I for one don't give a monkeys what speed people drive at until they get it wrong, OR DO IT IN AN INAPPROPRIATE PLACE or they are in the presence of a marked Police vehicle.
To ignore the fact that it is there in my view shows a complete lack of respect (why should that worry me when kids are taught to disrespect any authority these days if it doesn't suit them)
Drive as fast as you like when there are no marked units around and you take your chances with the unmarked ones and the hidden cameras, but please show a bit of courtesy when a marked unit is around.
It may save you an FPT from a cop wanting to relieve some stress or at least an unecessary delay while he explains the error of your ways and his frustration
>> Edited by Madcop on Monday 3rd June 13:47
>> Edited by Madcop on Monday 3rd June 14:05
>> Edited by Madcop on Monday 3rd June 20:31
I agree about the marked car bit madcop, I always will pass a 60mph at a sensible speed (70ish and then drive on). It does cause bunching but not as much as middle lane pR@ts that believe if they can see a police car/lorry half a mile aways they should get into the middle lane straight away and then crawl at 65mph.
I believe anyone that zooms past a marked police car does deserve to get nicked as clearly their observation is doubious (and therefore more unsafe at that speed). However, unmarked cars/hidden gatso defeat that purpose. Whats the point in saying drive safely and be observant when an unmarked car can pull you up at any time?
I believe anyone that zooms past a marked police car does deserve to get nicked as clearly their observation is doubious (and therefore more unsafe at that speed). However, unmarked cars/hidden gatso defeat that purpose. Whats the point in saying drive safely and be observant when an unmarked car can pull you up at any time?
I have passed a marked vehicle (on a motorway) at 80mph in my Chimaera, for a bit of fun, I suppose, to see what they would do. A bit *mad*, I will agree, but they smiled and waved.
You take your chances when you pass a marked car...at any speed. You can only hope they are in a good mood and have had their morning coffee. I normally stick to the limit when cops are around, unless I happen to be with one at the time
>> Edited by rivergirrl on Monday 3rd June 14:36
You take your chances when you pass a marked car...at any speed. You can only hope they are in a good mood and have had their morning coffee. I normally stick to the limit when cops are around, unless I happen to be with one at the time
>> Edited by rivergirrl on Monday 3rd June 14:36
Steady on Madcop, had a bad day? I was simply making a point about the paradox that the motorway became a more dangerous place to be because of the presence of plod. It is a no win situation for them as you say.
If I go past them at 85 without acknowledging them, then they will assume I must have my eyes shut. If I go past at 85 and give them a cheery wave then I must be an arrogant tosser who believes speed limits do not apply to me. So I have to go past at 70ish with a van glued to my bumper, and the middle lane clogged with people with no lane discipline.
I don't know what the answer is, but I wish tailgaters and middle laners stood more chance of getting pulled than people doing 85mph on a 3 or 4 lane road with no corners and good visibility.
Must go - me roast pork's ready.
If I go past them at 85 without acknowledging them, then they will assume I must have my eyes shut. If I go past at 85 and give them a cheery wave then I must be an arrogant tosser who believes speed limits do not apply to me. So I have to go past at 70ish with a van glued to my bumper, and the middle lane clogged with people with no lane discipline.
I don't know what the answer is, but I wish tailgaters and middle laners stood more chance of getting pulled than people doing 85mph on a 3 or 4 lane road with no corners and good visibility.
Must go - me roast pork's ready.
quote:
Madcop - do unmarked police cars only patrol motorways? I drive to the conditions and am very aware of others etc, but usually speed everywhere. What are the chances of getting caught on motorways compared to country lanes?
First question. Unmarked cars tend to concentrate around areas of high crime in line with most forces targets to reduce street crime. They do use the motorways to go from one major problem area to the next as obviously it is quicker to do this.
SO NO THEY DONT PATROL M/WAYS (generally)
The days of collecting as many tickets as possible are over as most performance targets are in relation to arrests and clearup rates.
Some forces run enforcement cars where there is a recognised problem but generally since Govt grants for Policing Motorways have been stopped, the resources are thrown at other problems and Motorways are Policed on a fire brigade basis.
Second question about country lanes is that you are probably safer there than any where as long as you reduce to the directed limits when entering populated areas. That means doing the limit when you reach it and not exceeding it until you have reached NSL.
The reason is that generally country areas have low crime problems so the resources are not sent there unless there is an identified problem.
If you are going to exceed the limit just be very careful where you do it and think about the effect you may have on other road users. If they are likely to be so then dont.
I will say dont break the limit
I don't think you can make generalisations about how police will act.
You get the good ones - eg I got pulled for 48mph in a 40 zone a few weeks ago, and the bloke just gave me a caution and let me off. Probably due to late at night with no traffic in sight in any direction. Top bloke.
Then you get a bloke like the guy a year or so ago, on the highway. It's a 60mph zone, single lane, and I was doing 70-75... he was on the other side of the road having pulled someone over and issuing a ticket. As I came past he looked up and watched me for a second or two, and I knew he'd come after me... he had the full highway patrol kit - knee-high black boots, leather jacket, aviator sunglasses. And I was in an elise. So I slowed to 60 and waited. Sure enough a couple of minutes later I saw him approach rapidly in the rear view mirror, doing at least 100. He then sat on my arse for about 15 minutes - I stayed at 60. After a while there were a couple of other cars that had caught up behind us, and when the highway changed to dual-carriageway and the limit went up to 70 I increased to 70 and he stayed glued behind me. Eventually one of the other cars got tired of it all and pulled out and came past... doing about 74, at the most. Immediately the cop left me, put his lights on and pulled the guy over.
It's like anything - there's good ones and bad ones. And Then there's the blokes who have quotas to fill.
You get the good ones - eg I got pulled for 48mph in a 40 zone a few weeks ago, and the bloke just gave me a caution and let me off. Probably due to late at night with no traffic in sight in any direction. Top bloke.
Then you get a bloke like the guy a year or so ago, on the highway. It's a 60mph zone, single lane, and I was doing 70-75... he was on the other side of the road having pulled someone over and issuing a ticket. As I came past he looked up and watched me for a second or two, and I knew he'd come after me... he had the full highway patrol kit - knee-high black boots, leather jacket, aviator sunglasses. And I was in an elise. So I slowed to 60 and waited. Sure enough a couple of minutes later I saw him approach rapidly in the rear view mirror, doing at least 100. He then sat on my arse for about 15 minutes - I stayed at 60. After a while there were a couple of other cars that had caught up behind us, and when the highway changed to dual-carriageway and the limit went up to 70 I increased to 70 and he stayed glued behind me. Eventually one of the other cars got tired of it all and pulled out and came past... doing about 74, at the most. Immediately the cop left me, put his lights on and pulled the guy over.
It's like anything - there's good ones and bad ones. And Then there's the blokes who have quotas to fill.
Thats a valid point and the one that we all should be aware of. I'm ex Police and like everyone had good and bads days (human nature). Subsequently the way I dealt with one incident could differ from day to day, dependant on various influences. I thought of myself as a 'good cop' and was fair on most issues, I stopped more people to look at their cars/bikes than prosecuted. But for everyone of me there was a regimental by the book pain in the a##e. So what is the answer ? There isn't one just hope you just passed a nice copper while your nudging 80 
My pennyworth...
I have just read the thread and it is very interesting.
In my opinion most laws are passed to protect the majority from the anti-social behaviour of the minority.
In the M25 case, then the majority of people are behaving in what they consider to be a responsible attitude and no-one is causing offence to each other.
However, put a marked car there and all anti-social behavior breaks out.
Clearly at this point it appears that the police are the anti-social minority - time for a new law.....???
I suspect not, but it does go to show how British society is obsessed with trying to obey rules and laws rather than trying to behave in a social manner.
I have just read the thread and it is very interesting.
In my opinion most laws are passed to protect the majority from the anti-social behaviour of the minority.
In the M25 case, then the majority of people are behaving in what they consider to be a responsible attitude and no-one is causing offence to each other.
However, put a marked car there and all anti-social behavior breaks out.
Clearly at this point it appears that the police are the anti-social minority - time for a new law.....???
I suspect not, but it does go to show how British society is obsessed with trying to obey rules and laws rather than trying to behave in a social manner.
quote:
Thats a valid point and the one that we all should be aware of. I'm ex Police and like everyone had good and bads days (human nature). Subsequently the way I dealt with one incident could differ from day to day, dependant on various influences. I thought of myself as a 'good cop' and was fair on most issues, I stopped more people to look at their cars/bikes than prosecuted. But for everyone of me there was a regimental by the book pain in the a##e. So what is the answer ? There isn't one just hope you just passed a nice copper while your nudging 80
Finaly at last a guy that tells the truth. well done.
You hit the nail righ on the head. The problem is a uniform atracts many of the wroung type, that allow it to go to strait there head and are total power freaks.
quote:
So what is the answer ? There isn't one just hope you just passed a nice copper while your nudging 80
There is an answer. There is far more phycological testing is need during the selection process and on a regular period during service.
AS it stands it is totally inafective.
>> Edited by outlaw on Tuesday 4th June 14:09
Outlaw, it is apparent that you see the majority of police officers as social misfits, who are attracted to the job by the lure of the uniform, or more accurately the power that the uniform commands, and I would agree with you up to a point, but do you not think that the only outcome of more stringent pyhcological testing would be to reduce the pool of candidates applying for positions with the police force, rather than increase the numbers who, to your way of thinking, are of an acceptable calibre? Although I do not subscribe to many of the methods employed by the police, and would be as irrate as anyone else should the full force of the law be directed toward me unjustly, I do recognise that the police force that we have, could be an awful lot worse, and that the majority of police officers start off in the job with the best of intentions.
quote:
Thats a valid point and the one that we all should be aware of. I'm ex Police .....
I stopped more people to look at their cars/bikes than prosecuted.
LOL spent a few years on the grey funnel line, once had an open day (families at sea etc) one of the guys brother was in the design team for the XK8 (DB7 before that, different story) so he brought a prototype Jag for a photo shoot in the dockyard along side before sailing. He was late, so almost delayed the sailing! yep pulled over so many (5 I think) times by plod to 'look' at the car on the way
Harry
quote:
Outlaw, it is apparent that you see the majority of police officers as social misfits, who are attracted to the job by the lure of the uniform, or more accurately the power that the uniform commands, and I would agree with you up to a point, but do you not think that the only outcome of more stringent pyhcological testing would be to reduce the pool of candidates applying for positions with the police force, rather than increase the numbers who, to your way of thinking, are of an acceptable calibre? Although I do not subscribe to many of the methods employed by the police, and would be as irrate as anyone else should the full force of the law be directed toward me unjustly, I do recognise that the police force that we have, could be an awful lot worse, and that the majority of police officers start off in the job with the best of intentions.
Thats the problem those of acceptable calibre often dont even want the job no matter how much it payed.
I do not see the majority of police officers associal misfits, just far too many
The outcome of more stringent pyhcological testing would be to reduce the pool of candidates applying for positions with the police.
with out a dout would.
however It dont matter how many candidates apply. If they are unable to do the job then so be it.
If there want so many little hitlers in the job, and they regainged the public trust by behaving in a bet fashion then they would be in a beter position to gain aplications of the right calibre.
better 1 good one on the job that 10 bad ones.
and the police need to move away from being political puppets to beat the public with and be far more accountable for there actions.
when they have been on the rampage
>> Edited by outlaw on Tuesday 4th June 22:07
The Nail has just ben well and truely struck top dead centre! Those of an acceptable calibre, do not want the job, whatever it is paying! The police are crying out for recruits, things are so bad that they are, as reported on the national news last night, going to look to the commonwealth for new applications. A policemans lot,it would appear, is not a happy one!
People no longer seem to have any fear of law enforcement(I was going to say respect but I don't think anyone ever really respected the police),due to the fact that most of it's teeth have been removed.
A society must be policed as the alternative is an anarchy, not at all pleasant! I take the point about 1 good copper being better than 10 bad ones, but due to the vast difference in numbers required and numbers of applicants, I find myself concuring with "Phil Dicky" that there is no acceptable answer.
People no longer seem to have any fear of law enforcement(I was going to say respect but I don't think anyone ever really respected the police),due to the fact that most of it's teeth have been removed.
A society must be policed as the alternative is an anarchy, not at all pleasant! I take the point about 1 good copper being better than 10 bad ones, but due to the vast difference in numbers required and numbers of applicants, I find myself concuring with "Phil Dicky" that there is no acceptable answer.
I think that there is an acceptance of the overall problem that the police force have - political pressure. Ok, so it isnt new and is probably something that they will all have to put up with. However, with the growth of the modern news media (love 'em or hate 'em) we know more about everything.
What is increasingly common is the number of people that avoid prosecution due to "something". Not talking murderers or whatever - but speeders, drunk drivers etc. If you are famous, rich or a member of the government (either side) then you can pretty much avoid prosecution. Almost a new breed of "untouchables" ....
Cheers,
Paul
What is increasingly common is the number of people that avoid prosecution due to "something". Not talking murderers or whatever - but speeders, drunk drivers etc. If you are famous, rich or a member of the government (either side) then you can pretty much avoid prosecution. Almost a new breed of "untouchables" ....
Cheers,
Paul
What is increasingly common is the number of people that avoid prosecution due to "something". Not talking murderers or whatever - but speeders, drunk drivers etc. If you are famous, rich or a member of the government (either side) then you can pretty much avoid prosecution. Almost a new breed of "untouchables" ....
You forgot those that pull their homes behind them and break down the gate to your field while they stay a while.
Problem with all public services is that the public demand results.
Govt then make performance indicators so that they are not perceived to be sitting in the doughnut shop all day.
Media publish the figures and instant public backlash.
It amuses me that the number of posts condemn Police officers who try and get away with speeding, or those that attach clips of NIP to Chief Officers.
Do you all suggest that because a person works for the Police that when he makes a mistake he should straight away run to the prosecuting authority with his driving licence or chequebook in his hand and ask for immediate retribution.
Some will because they feel that to be open and honest is the only way to be and they fear greater punishment if they are not.
Better to take an FPT than to lose your job by being sneaky.
However they are just persons/humans (believe me) like the rest of you and if they can get away with something minor then that is liveable with.
Many of my colleagues fall foul of these cameras, privately as well as in marked vehicles.
They are dealt with in exactly the same way as anyone else.
Most pay and shut up because of the embarrassment factor.
THESE CASES ARE NEVER REPORTED AS THEY ARE NOT SENSATIONAL.
If you are a decent (generally) law abiding person with permanent address and without the trappings of wealth or influence, I am afraid you are shafted
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