96 on a dual carriageway - advice pls

96 on a dual carriageway - advice pls

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Discussion

craigw

Original Poster:

12,248 posts

289 months

Monday 13th May 2002
quotequote all
Just got a speeding ticket from a dual carriageway in Wales. I havent actually seen it yet as my g/f just got it in post. It is asking for details of the driver etc etc.

Anyone know the likely outcome of 96 in a 70 ?

johnmckenzie

158 posts

275 months

Monday 13th May 2002
quotequote all
Borderline depending on what the magistrate had for breakfast, whether what you were doing could be construed as dangerous and traffic/weather conditions at the time. Assuming you are starting with a clean licence, I would think either 6 points and £200 to £500 or 4 to 8 week ban and £200 to £500. The plus point of a ban is no points go on your licence. The downside is hiring cars can be a problem as hirers insurance usually excludes anyone with a ban in the last 5 years. It will also jack your insurance up by around 15%.
Word of advice. Plead totally guilty, grovel in court, don't make any excuses, don't claim you need the car for work etc. On the contrary, after all of the above tell the court you have made arrangements to be without a car for a period of the ban as you recognise it would be a just punishment. If you think I'm joking consider this.
I got done 3 years ago on the M5 near Weston Super Mare at 101 mph in my Cerbera. I already had 3 points from 2 years previously (sp30). Having followed the path above I got a 7 day ban, no points, and £175 fine. I just followed my solicitors advice! Mind you, I was also 45 years old which I think helps too.

Good Luck

John McKenzie

Alex

9,975 posts

291 months

Monday 13th May 2002
quotequote all
Reply asking for a copy of the photo as you are unable to determine who was driving at the time of the offence.

After receiving the photo, write saying that you cannot tell who was driving at the time, you or your girlfriend.

bennno

12,699 posts

276 months

Monday 13th May 2002
quotequote all

If it was you and you end up in court then the info below could lead to big ban.

I would say, sorry, it was an error, i had no idea of the speed and when i relaised i slowed down immediately, i need my car for work as i travel x miles per year, i help out as a driver with the disabled and under privelidged children...my wife is 8 1/2 months pregnant, I live in a rural community with no public transport services..... i have now sold the car....best of all, I had the shits and needed a dump (alex ferguson)...I was being chased by scroates (david beckham) ...or can i see the calibration certificate and proof that this device was authorised for use...(Dwight yorke)

one or a combination move may work??

Ben

johnmckenzie

158 posts

275 months

Monday 13th May 2002
quotequote all
quote:

Reply asking for a copy of the photo as you are unable to determine who was driving at the time of the offence.

After receiving the photo, write saying that you cannot tell who was driving at the time, you or your girlfriend.



IMO this wouldn't help at all I'm afraid as you may recall from the Scottish case that was taken all the way to the European court. It's been tried in test cases and thrown out as a defence. Where photographic evidence is being used, the onus is firmly on the registered keeper (name on logbook) to prove that they were not driving at the time. By default, without that proof the registered keeper cops the offence. Taking this course of action will guarantee a stiff penalty for wasting court time.

Regards

John

johnmckenzie

158 posts

275 months

Monday 13th May 2002
quotequote all
Bennno, a further point on your reply. A close work collegue (aged 43) of my wife was done for the same speed (101 mph) on the M40 near Banbury. He took a brief to court, pleaded most of what you suggest and piled in 2 character refences for good measure. He got a 3 month ban and £1500 fine! As my solicitor said to me, the courts have heard it all before and the only thing that impresses them now is true contrition, i.e. take it on the chin like a good boy.

Regards

John Mckenzie

craigw

Original Poster:

12,248 posts

289 months

Monday 13th May 2002
quotequote all
The actual truth is I'm not sure if it was me or my girlfriend driving as we swapped during the journey!

I have only been asked for who was driving so far, will this definitely be a court job ?

I have 6 points on my license.

Thanks for all help.

Deadly Dog

281 posts

274 months

Monday 13th May 2002
quotequote all
quote:

Reply asking for a copy of the photo as you are unable to determine who was driving at the time of the offence.

After receiving the photo, write saying that you cannot tell who was driving at the time, you or your girlfriend.



This may also provide some useful background information:
www.pepipoo.com/FightBack/messages/38.html

mattjbatch

1,502 posts

278 months

Monday 13th May 2002
quotequote all
quote:

quote:

Reply asking for a copy of the photo as you are unable to determine who was driving at the time of the offence.

After receiving the photo, write saying that you cannot tell who was driving at the time, you or your girlfriend.



IMO this wouldn't help at all I'm afraid as you may recall from the Scottish case that was taken all the way to the European court. It's been tried in test cases and thrown out as a defence. Where photographic evidence is being used, the onus is firmly on the registered keeper (name on logbook) to prove that they were not driving at the time. By default, without that proof the registered keeper cops the offence. Taking this course of action will guarantee a stiff penalty for wasting court time.

Regards

John


It worked for a certain Chief Police Officer whose name I forget. Oh, sorry, forgot about the one rule for us coppers can do what the bloody well like thing...

craigw

Original Poster:

12,248 posts

289 months

Monday 13th May 2002
quotequote all
well I've asked for a copy of the photo, Its weird because they reckon its taken from a white van parked on the side of the road, this is something I am always very conscious about looking out for and I didnt see a thing.

RUF 3

240 posts

274 months

Monday 13th May 2002
quotequote all
I often wondered what would happen if the registered keeper of my car turned out to be my cat. Alternatively my mother who does not drive may be a suitable registered keeper. What would they then do ??

Deadly Dog

281 posts

274 months

Monday 13th May 2002
quotequote all
quote:

IMO this wouldn't help at all I'm afraid as you may recall from the Scottish case that was taken all the way to the European court.


No - it only went as far as the Privy Council in the UK and did not apply to a speeding charge. Section 172 of the Road Traffic Act is currently being contested in the European Court:

www.abd.org.uk/righttosilence.htm

Tuff Noodell

68 posts

282 months

Monday 13th May 2002
quotequote all
Don't take this as hope, but I had a mini gatso strike at 95mph and I did not contest, other than to state in my defence that it was a clear dry day on a quiet dual carriageway.
Escaped with 3 pts & fixed penalty.

Good luck.

plotloss

67,280 posts

277 months

Monday 13th May 2002
quotequote all
Thats the issue though, that was at 95mph which is under the court threshold and this is 96mph which is the court threshold (bad luck and sorry dude!).

Cant really see it being a ban, more like 3pts and £200 as its very close to the NIP threshold.

Matt.

craigw

Original Poster:

12,248 posts

289 months

Monday 13th May 2002
quotequote all
thanks guys.

manek

2,977 posts

291 months

Monday 13th May 2002
quotequote all
Contrition worked for me. 98mph in a 70mph dual carriageway. Saying I was deeply sorry and heading off thoughts of dangerous driving by pointing out the fact that visibility was very good and traffic was light. Got 5 points and a fine of £150.

Funnily enough it works too: I don't drive that fast on the road (in this country) any more.

hertsbiker

6,371 posts

278 months

Monday 13th May 2002
quotequote all
quote:

As my solicitor said to me, the courts have heard it all before and the only thing that impresses them now is true contrition, i.e. take it on the chin like a good boy.


With respect: b*llocks. Are you a cop? your advice sucks. Cast doubt on the driver, and/or mitigate. Innocent until proven guilty, remember?

Fight like a demon, you won't get a worse penalty, it proves you take it seriously. Roll over and ask for punishmnet, and thats what you'll get.

rgds, Carl.

Toonman

9 posts

271 months

Monday 13th May 2002
quotequote all
Got pulled for 98mph on the A19 near Sunderland in 1998. Had a nice chat with Plod about Impreza Turbos as they gave me a fixed penalty - 3pts and £42 or whatever it was.

ATG

21,319 posts

279 months

Monday 13th May 2002
quotequote all
quote:

quote:

As my solicitor said to me, the courts have heard it all before and the only thing that impresses them now is true contrition, i.e. take it on the chin like a good boy.


With respect: b*llocks. Are you a cop? your advice sucks. Cast doubt on the driver, and/or mitigate. Innocent until proven guilty, remember?

Fight like a demon, you won't get a worse penalty, it proves you take it seriously. Roll over and ask for punishmnet, and thats what you'll get.

rgds, Carl.



Fight like a demon and loose and they will give you a good slapping because in their eye's (a) your defense was an unsustainable load of bollox, (b) you're not prepared to take responsibility for your own actions and don't mind wasting everyone's time into the bargain, (c) you've given no indication that you aren't going to do it again given half a chance.

If you do an abject grovle they may think their job is done, i.e. being dragged into court has shown you the error of your ways and you don't require any further encouragment, i.e. a big fine, to stop you being naughty in the future.

outlaw

1,893 posts

273 months

Monday 13th May 2002
quotequote all
quote:

quote:

As my solicitor said to me, the courts have heard it all before and the only thing that impresses them now is true contrition, i.e. take it on the chin like a good boy.


With respect: b*llocks. Are you a cop? your advice sucks. Cast doubt on the driver, and/or mitigate. Innocent until proven guilty, remember?

Fight like a demon, you won't get a worse penalty, it proves you take it seriously. Roll over and ask for punishmnet, and thats what you'll get.

rgds, Carl.



dout it carl
I think he just got a crap solicitor

the a lot of lazy shit ones about