Police run over calf - reasonable?

[DonkeyApple]

Bigends said:

Tango13 said:

Somewhatfoolish said:

>Snip<

Do you really need a 7.62 at <50 yards for a cow????

Edited by Somewhatfoolish on Friday 21st June 21:31

I posted about the relative muzzle energies of various calibres a couple of days back, a 7.62 NATO round wouldn't be allowed for big game hunting in most countries as it isn't powerful enough!

The Holland & Holland .375 Magnum which is considered the bare minimum (and in some countries it's the legal minimum) has slightly less velocity but each bullet weighs nearly twice as much as the 7.62 round so as a result has roughly 1600 ft/lbs more muzzle energy.

To put that into context a single H&H .375 Magnum bullet has roughly the same amount of muzzle energy as a 9mm Parabellum, 5.56 NATO and a 7.62 NATO combined!!

I'd say a 7.62 NATO would be the bare minimum for trying to drop a cow at 50yds but it would be a very brave decision to allow something like that to be used in a built up area.

I'm sure they'd be able to get a bit closer than 50yds. To shoot it

You probably would be able to get closer but there is still a legal minimum (as posted earlier) and that just can't be being used in a built up area. And the likelihood of actually hitting it correctly is a lot slimmer than some would imagine as it will be moving, not often presenting the correct target and in poor lighting. I think it's fair to surmise that the decision to hit the poor thing with a vehicle came about as all other legitimate options were exhausted.

[dickymint]

DonkeyApple said:

You probably would be able to get closer but there is still a legal minimum (as posted earlier) and that just can't be being used in a built up area. And the likelihood of actually hitting it correctly is a lot slimmer than some would imagine as it will be moving, not often presenting the correct target and in poor lighting. I think it's fair to surmise that the decision to hit the poor thing with a vehicle came about as all other legitimate options were exhausted.

Did you read the link I posted earlier? Is there a "legal minimum for dogs?"

[Dibble]

Going back to one of the original questions about “why didn’t the police just get a vet out to shoot it with a tranquilliser?”, not all vets have tranquilliser guns. They’re classed as firearms, so the vet would need an FAC. Source? My OH is a vet.

Also, https://www.bsavalibrary.com/docserver/fulltext/10...

[dickymint]

Dibble said:

Going back to one of the original questions about “why didn’t the police just get a vet out to shoot it with a tranquilliser?”, not all vets have tranquilliser guns. They’re classed as firearms, so the vet would need an FAC. Source? My OH is a vet.

Also, https://www.bsavalibrary.com/docserver/fulltext/10...

Tranquilisers can also be administered with a pole. Link is just an example..........


https://www.bdsupplies.co.uk/medi-dart/medi-dart.h...

[Dibble]

dickymint said:

Dibble said:

Going back to one of the original questions about “why didn’t the police just get a vet out to shoot it with a tranquilliser?”, not all vets have tranquilliser guns. They’re classed as firearms, so the vet would need an FAC. Source? My OH is a vet.

Also, https://www.bsavalibrary.com/docserver/fulltext/10...

Tranquilisers can also be administered with a pole. Link is just an example..........


https://www.bdsupplies.co.uk/medi-dart/medi-dart.h...

Also by blow darts, which OH is licensed in, but doesn’t have. The point I was making was that “shooting” (darting/shooting/poleing, other methods of administration are also available) isn’t necessarily something every vet will have/have access to/be licensed in.

[DonkeyApple]

It could be administered by hot air balloon also.

Another solution would have been to build walls around the cow.

A cow magician could have distracted it while specially trained squirrels approached undetected.

Ultimately, there are many, many fine ways in which the errant cow could have been stopped but time, availability of resources and common sense ultimately dictate which is why getting Dave to smack it with a van transpired to be the best way to deal with the 'human > cow' situation.

[Collectingbrass]

DonkeyApple said:

It could be administered by hot air balloon also.

Another solution would have been to build walls around the cow.

A cow magician could have distracted it while specially trained squirrels approached undetected.

Ultimately, there are many, many fine ways in which the errant cow could have been stopped but time, availability of resources and common sense ultimately dictate which is why getting Dave to smack it with a van transpired to be the best least worst immediately available way to deal with the 'human > cow' situation.

Fixed that for you. I have no idea how I would have dealt with it and I don't envy the Duty Inspector in the control room either.

[DonkeyApple]

Collectingbrass said:

Fixed that for you. I have no idea how I would have dealt with it and I don't envy the Duty Inspector in the control room either.

Thanks for the better edit. Dismal for the people involved and now some poor sod is at home worried about the wellbeing of their family finances because they had to do the crappy job.

[anonymous-user]

Swap out 'young calf' for 'angry woman with a baseball bat smashing cars up'. Still run them over?

[Catweazle]

Forester1965 said:

Swap out 'young calf' for 'angry woman with a baseball bat smashing cars up'. Still run them over?

How much does she weigh?

[anonymous-user]

Why does that matter?

[dickymint]

DonkeyApple said:

It could be administered by hot air balloon also.

Another solution would have been to build walls around the cow.

A cow magician could have distracted it while specially trained squirrels approached undetected.

Ultimately, there are many, many fine ways in which the errant cow could have been stopped but time, availability of resources and common sense ultimately dictate which is why getting Dave to smack it with a van transpired to be the best way to deal with the 'human > cow' situation.

As it transpired it didn't work at all. And I still don't know the time gap between mowing it down and when it was ushered (probably quite calmly) into a trailer.

[Catweazle]

Forester1965 said:

Why does that matter?

Because, presumably, a young woman is a lot easier to wrestle to the ground than a calf is and that's not considering the fact that a calf has two more legs. Also, a young woman with a baseball bat can understand instructions given by the police which is something that the calf cannot do, unless it's a particularly intelligent calf compared to a singularly stupid woman.

[DonkeyApple]

Forester1965 said:

Swap out 'young calf' for 'angry woman with a baseball bat smashing cars up'. Still run them over?

Human>car.

How about 'hysterical old woman making up angry woman analogies that appear to be spectacularly devoid of reality or common sense'. Hit with a car? Shoot with a dart or just suggest not drinking so much?

[anonymous-user]

Nuke them both from orbit

1. amidoingitright?

[Collectingbrass]

DonkeyApple said:

Collectingbrass said:

Fixed that for you. I have no idea how I would have dealt with it and I don't envy the Duty Inspector in the control room either.

Thanks for the better edit. Dismal for the people involved and now some poor sod is at home worried about the wellbeing of their family finances because they had to do the crappy job.

I should have added the and though

[LM240]

DonkeyApple said:

Forester1965 said:

Swap out 'young calf' for 'angry woman with a baseball bat smashing cars up'. Still run them over?

Human>car.

How about 'hysterical old woman making up angry woman analogies that appear to be spectacularly devoid of reality or common sense'. Hit with a car? Shoot with a dart or just suggest not drinking so much?

In right circumstances, human Vs car could be quite legitimate, as any option is. It just depends on the threat posed and whether the force used is reasonable and proportional.

[DonkeyApple]

LM240 said:

DonkeyApple said:

Forester1965 said:

Swap out 'young calf' for 'angry woman with a baseball bat smashing cars up'. Still run them over?

Human>car.

How about 'hysterical old woman making up angry woman analogies that appear to be spectacularly devoid of reality or common sense'. Hit with a car? Shoot with a dart or just suggest not drinking so much?

In right circumstances, human Vs car could be quite legitimate, as any option is. It just depends on the threat posed and whether the force used is reasonable and proportional.

Possible misinterpretation. There's never a scenario where a human life is valued less than some cars they happen to be smashing up. Ergo, never a need to use such a draconian last resort such as hitting them with a car. Conversely, no cow is more important than a human life and so where the cow presents a potential risk to humans then if all other options are explored and exhausted and all that remains is to hit it with a car then hesitation to do so would be unacceptable. It's of no relevance that the cow had damaged some cars, as in those cars don't matter one iota, the reason the cow needed to be halted was because it was in an urban location, ie where a human could be hurt by it.

[Collectingbrass]

Catweazle said:

Forester1965 said:

Why does that matter?

Because, presumably, a young woman is a lot easier to wrestle to the ground than a calf is and that's not considering the fact that a calf has two more legs. Also, a young woman with a baseball bat can understand instructions given by the police which is something that the calf cannot do, unless it's a particularly intelligent calf compared to a singularly stupid woman.

If she didn't obey she'd likely get a baton to the knee cap as a minimum. A cow can't comprehend a request to desist and a warning of consequences if not.

[DonkeyApple]

Collectingbrass said:

Catweazle said:

Forester1965 said:

Why does that matter?

Because, presumably, a young woman is a lot easier to wrestle to the ground than a calf is and that's not considering the fact that a calf has two more legs. Also, a young woman with a baseball bat can understand instructions given by the police which is something that the calf cannot do, unless it's a particularly intelligent calf compared to a singularly stupid woman.

If she didn't obey she'd likely get a baton to the knee cap as a minimum. A cow can't comprehend a request to desist and a warning of consequences if not.

Waving a GroupOn voucher, a pie or a glass of Lambrusco would probably be sufficient to placate the lady sufficiently for a professional to be able to risk moving in close enough to get a muzzle fitted and gently usher the poor creature into the back of the van.