Police run over calf - reasonable?

[Somewhatfoolish]

Flumpo said:

Nibbles_bits said:

dickymint said:

Cold said:

How did they eventually catch this calf? It wasn't caught by hitting it with a 4x4, but by another method. Possibly a bloke with a wide hat and a lasso?

Instead of all this talk about guns, vets and magic bullets why don't they just do whatever they did after the bumper incident?

I have been asking this for days and in particular how long before it was finally captured and what was this mad rampant killer beast doing in the meantime

It is strange how every piece of footage doesn't show how the calf is caught??

I wonder if it's because it was hit that it was captured?

That was shared a few pages back and is so weird I think everyone assumed it was fake news. According to the reports shortly after it was run over, two guys with a trailer turned up offered to take the calf. The police let them take it. The ‘gentlemen’ then proceeded to hold the calf ransom until the owner had to pay them cash for the safe release.

Yup this was my favourite bit (so far - this is the kind of stupid story that even weirder things could happen. See also this election campaign). Perhaps they were the same gentlemen who tried to charge me £20 for car parking this Appleby horse fair. If so, then they are amenable to firm negotiation. Always know you BATNA and all that.

@DonkeyApple I get your point about Chillingham cattle getting a bit of hay but I do believe they'd survive (as a group, even if a lot of them died) without it; think this has been proven on some very harsh winters before?

Do you really need a 7.62 at <50 yards for a cow????

Edited by Somewhatfoolish on Friday 21st June 21:31

[Hungrymc]

dickymint said:

swisstoni said:

I’m guessing the latest acceptable dispatch methods of livestock is not at the top of the Surrey Constabulary to-do list.

Probably not but it's very simple for a serving member of the police to ask a simple question and get an answer. It would probably take an FOI request for me to find out lol.

I think you’d still draw a blank.

[Tango13]

Somewhatfoolish said:

>Snip<

Do you really need a 7.62 at <50 yards for a cow????

Edited by Somewhatfoolish on Friday 21st June 21:31

I posted about the relative muzzle energies of various calibres a couple of days back, a 7.62 NATO round wouldn't be allowed for big game hunting in most countries as it isn't powerful enough!

The Holland & Holland .375 Magnum which is considered the bare minimum (and in some countries it's the legal minimum) has slightly less velocity but each bullet weighs nearly twice as much as the 7.62 round so as a result has roughly 1600 ft/lbs more muzzle energy.

To put that into context a single H&H .375 Magnum bullet has roughly the same amount of muzzle energy as a 9mm Parabellum, 5.56 NATO and a 7.62 NATO combined!!

I'd say a 7.62 NATO would be the bare minimum for trying to drop a cow at 50yds but it would be a very brave decision to allow something like that to be used in a built up area.

[Bigends]

Tango13 said:

Somewhatfoolish said:

>Snip<

Do you really need a 7.62 at <50 yards for a cow????

Edited by Somewhatfoolish on Friday 21st June 21:31

I posted about the relative muzzle energies of various calibres a couple of days back, a 7.62 NATO round wouldn't be allowed for big game hunting in most countries as it isn't powerful enough!

The Holland & Holland .375 Magnum which is considered the bare minimum (and in some countries it's the legal minimum) has slightly less velocity but each bullet weighs nearly twice as much as the 7.62 round so as a result has roughly 1600 ft/lbs more muzzle energy.

To put that into context a single H&H .375 Magnum bullet has roughly the same amount of muzzle energy as a 9mm Parabellum, 5.56 NATO and a 7.62 NATO combined!!

I'd say a 7.62 NATO would be the bare minimum for trying to drop a cow at 50yds but it would be a very brave decision to allow something like that to be used in a built up area.

I'm sure they'd be able to get a bit closer than 50yds. To shoot it

[dickymint]

Thought I'd park this here......................


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ced3wjvzx2lo

[DonkeyApple]

Bigends said:

Tango13 said:

Somewhatfoolish said:

>Snip<

Do you really need a 7.62 at <50 yards for a cow????

Edited by Somewhatfoolish on Friday 21st June 21:31

I posted about the relative muzzle energies of various calibres a couple of days back, a 7.62 NATO round wouldn't be allowed for big game hunting in most countries as it isn't powerful enough!

The Holland & Holland .375 Magnum which is considered the bare minimum (and in some countries it's the legal minimum) has slightly less velocity but each bullet weighs nearly twice as much as the 7.62 round so as a result has roughly 1600 ft/lbs more muzzle energy.

To put that into context a single H&H .375 Magnum bullet has roughly the same amount of muzzle energy as a 9mm Parabellum, 5.56 NATO and a 7.62 NATO combined!!

I'd say a 7.62 NATO would be the bare minimum for trying to drop a cow at 50yds but it would be a very brave decision to allow something like that to be used in a built up area.

I'm sure they'd be able to get a bit closer than 50yds. To shoot it

You probably would be able to get closer but there is still a legal minimum (as posted earlier) and that just can't be being used in a built up area. And the likelihood of actually hitting it correctly is a lot slimmer than some would imagine as it will be moving, not often presenting the correct target and in poor lighting. I think it's fair to surmise that the decision to hit the poor thing with a vehicle came about as all other legitimate options were exhausted.

[dickymint]

DonkeyApple said:

You probably would be able to get closer but there is still a legal minimum (as posted earlier) and that just can't be being used in a built up area. And the likelihood of actually hitting it correctly is a lot slimmer than some would imagine as it will be moving, not often presenting the correct target and in poor lighting. I think it's fair to surmise that the decision to hit the poor thing with a vehicle came about as all other legitimate options were exhausted.

Did you read the link I posted earlier? Is there a "legal minimum for dogs?"

[Dibble]

Going back to one of the original questions about “why didn’t the police just get a vet out to shoot it with a tranquilliser?”, not all vets have tranquilliser guns. They’re classed as firearms, so the vet would need an FAC. Source? My OH is a vet.

Also, https://www.bsavalibrary.com/docserver/fulltext/10...

[dickymint]

Dibble said:

Going back to one of the original questions about “why didn’t the police just get a vet out to shoot it with a tranquilliser?”, not all vets have tranquilliser guns. They’re classed as firearms, so the vet would need an FAC. Source? My OH is a vet.

Also, https://www.bsavalibrary.com/docserver/fulltext/10...

Tranquilisers can also be administered with a pole. Link is just an example..........


https://www.bdsupplies.co.uk/medi-dart/medi-dart.h...

[Dibble]

dickymint said:

Dibble said:

Going back to one of the original questions about “why didn’t the police just get a vet out to shoot it with a tranquilliser?”, not all vets have tranquilliser guns. They’re classed as firearms, so the vet would need an FAC. Source? My OH is a vet.

Also, https://www.bsavalibrary.com/docserver/fulltext/10...

Tranquilisers can also be administered with a pole. Link is just an example..........


https://www.bdsupplies.co.uk/medi-dart/medi-dart.h...

Also by blow darts, which OH is licensed in, but doesn’t have. The point I was making was that “shooting” (darting/shooting/poleing, other methods of administration are also available) isn’t necessarily something every vet will have/have access to/be licensed in.

[DonkeyApple]

It could be administered by hot air balloon also.

Another solution would have been to build walls around the cow.

A cow magician could have distracted it while specially trained squirrels approached undetected.

Ultimately, there are many, many fine ways in which the errant cow could have been stopped but time, availability of resources and common sense ultimately dictate which is why getting Dave to smack it with a van transpired to be the best way to deal with the 'human > cow' situation.

[Collectingbrass]

DonkeyApple said:

It could be administered by hot air balloon also.

Another solution would have been to build walls around the cow.

A cow magician could have distracted it while specially trained squirrels approached undetected.

Ultimately, there are many, many fine ways in which the errant cow could have been stopped but time, availability of resources and common sense ultimately dictate which is why getting Dave to smack it with a van transpired to be the best least worst immediately available way to deal with the 'human > cow' situation.

Fixed that for you. I have no idea how I would have dealt with it and I don't envy the Duty Inspector in the control room either.

[DonkeyApple]

Collectingbrass said:

Fixed that for you. I have no idea how I would have dealt with it and I don't envy the Duty Inspector in the control room either.

Thanks for the better edit. Dismal for the people involved and now some poor sod is at home worried about the wellbeing of their family finances because they had to do the crappy job.

[Forester1965]

Swap out 'young calf' for 'angry woman with a baseball bat smashing cars up'. Still run them over?

[Catweazle]

Forester1965 said:

Swap out 'young calf' for 'angry woman with a baseball bat smashing cars up'. Still run them over?

How much does she weigh?

[Forester1965]

Why does that matter?

[dickymint]

DonkeyApple said:

It could be administered by hot air balloon also.

Another solution would have been to build walls around the cow.

A cow magician could have distracted it while specially trained squirrels approached undetected.

Ultimately, there are many, many fine ways in which the errant cow could have been stopped but time, availability of resources and common sense ultimately dictate which is why getting Dave to smack it with a van transpired to be the best way to deal with the 'human > cow' situation.

As it transpired it didn't work at all. And I still don't know the time gap between mowing it down and when it was ushered (probably quite calmly) into a trailer.

[Catweazle]

Forester1965 said:

Why does that matter?

Because, presumably, a young woman is a lot easier to wrestle to the ground than a calf is and that's not considering the fact that a calf has two more legs. Also, a young woman with a baseball bat can understand instructions given by the police which is something that the calf cannot do, unless it's a particularly intelligent calf compared to a singularly stupid woman.

[DonkeyApple]

Forester1965 said:

Swap out 'young calf' for 'angry woman with a baseball bat smashing cars up'. Still run them over?

Human>car.

How about 'hysterical old woman making up angry woman analogies that appear to be spectacularly devoid of reality or common sense'. Hit with a car? Shoot with a dart or just suggest not drinking so much?

[Forester1965]

Nuke them both from orbit

1. amidoingitright?