Police run over calf - reasonable?
Discussion
Tenacious said:
Nibbles_bits said:
Stella Tortoise said:
Nibbles_bits said:
Bigends said:
Its fortunate in a way that the calf finished up as walking wounded. Had it broken a leg or two and lay or staggered around bellowing in agony with the Police having no immediate means to finish it off then the level of criticism levelled now would be as nothing. Its more by luck than judgement that this wasnt the case. The driver had no idea as what the consequences of their action were likely to be. I wonder what they hoped to achieve by running the calf over - was the aim to kill it or merely disable - theyll have to explain this to the enquiry
Obviously he wanted to kill it. He's out of control. Really should have been weeded out by vetting.Policemanladyperson bad
Because I don't think, based on the information, the officer did wrong?
Or because the comment is sarcastic?
Tenacious said:
Nibbles_bits said:
Stella Tortoise said:
Nibbles_bits said:
Bigends said:
Its fortunate in a way that the calf finished up as walking wounded. Had it broken a leg or two and lay or staggered around bellowing in agony with the Police having no immediate means to finish it off then the level of criticism levelled now would be as nothing. Its more by luck than judgement that this wasnt the case. The driver had no idea as what the consequences of their action were likely to be. I wonder what they hoped to achieve by running the calf over - was the aim to kill it or merely disable - theyll have to explain this to the enquiry
Obviously he wanted to kill it. He's out of control. Really should have been weeded out by vetting.Policemanladyperson bad
Because I don't think, based on the information, the officer did wrong?
Or because the comment is sarcastic?
MrBogSmith said:
The rest of the world has moved on from this non-event.
Come back in a year’s time what the IOPC finally conclude their investigation, clear the officer of any crimes / misconduct, but make recommendations for future incidents / third parties to contact in such situations.
Should already have a list of third parties to make contact with. We had them in the oldie days in the 80's and 90's (info supplied by neighbourhood officers) - why dont they already have them now?Come back in a year’s time what the IOPC finally conclude their investigation, clear the officer of any crimes / misconduct, but make recommendations for future incidents / third parties to contact in such situations.
Bigends said:
MrBogSmith said:
The rest of the world has moved on from this non-event.
Come back in a year’s time what the IOPC finally conclude their investigation, clear the officer of any crimes / misconduct, but make recommendations for future incidents / third parties to contact in such situations.
Should already have a list of third parties to make contact with. We had them in the oldie days in the 80's and 90's (info supplied by neighbourhood officers) - why dont they already have them now?Come back in a year’s time what the IOPC finally conclude their investigation, clear the officer of any crimes / misconduct, but make recommendations for future incidents / third parties to contact in such situations.
MrBogSmith said:
The rest of the world has moved on from this non-event.
Come back in a year’s time what the IOPC finally conclude their investigation, clear the officer of any crimes / misconduct, but make recommendations for future incidents / third parties to contact in such situations.
When Surrey Police finish their investigation. Come back in a year’s time what the IOPC finally conclude their investigation, clear the officer of any crimes / misconduct, but make recommendations for future incidents / third parties to contact in such situations.
MrBogSmith said:
The rest of the world has moved on from this non-event.
Come back in a year’s time what the IOPC finally conclude their investigation, clear the officer of any crimes / misconduct, but make recommendations for future incidents / third parties to contact in such situations.
IOPC are no longer investigating - its being dealt with in-houseCome back in a year’s time what the IOPC finally conclude their investigation, clear the officer of any crimes / misconduct, but make recommendations for future incidents / third parties to contact in such situations.
Am a bit suspicious of the "charging" without further evidence - if you look at videos of it (I appreciate it may not be the actual incident) it's more like an investigative stroll. It may have seemed like charging to a townie unfamiliar with cows but even with the tiny bit of knowledge I have - and I am pretty cowardly with bovines quite honestly, definitely in bottom quartile of braveness - I wouldn't have been bovvered.
DonkeyApple said:
Evanivitch said:
DonkeyApple said:
They wouldn't last for long and die a pretty horrible death as even the old, hardy breeds are still manmade, not natural so require ongoing maintenance.
Proper hardy domestic breeds are still pretty robust to most the UK can throw at them. Provided that is they're not kept on intensively grazed land with no natural shelter.Bigends said:
MrBogSmith said:
The rest of the world has moved on from this non-event.
Come back in a year’s time what the IOPC finally conclude their investigation, clear the officer of any crimes / misconduct, but make recommendations for future incidents / third parties to contact in such situations.
IOPC are no longer investigating - its being dealt with in-houseCome back in a year’s time what the IOPC finally conclude their investigation, clear the officer of any crimes / misconduct, but make recommendations for future incidents / third parties to contact in such situations.
But yes I doubt very much if anything will come of this as there is precedent already set. My stance all along is I hope the driver covered his arse and sought for the ok to ram the cow. If not he needs a serious word with himself and an attitude adjustment.
CoolHands said:
Or maybe as a human being he made a decision on the ground. Obviously independent thought is frowned on these days, and with the benefit of hindsight members of the public are perfect and would never make a bad decision.
it is frowned on mostly as like the army there is a chain of command- highly unlikely he’ll get a VC for his actions is it - nope under the bus at best Bigends said:
MrBogSmith said:
The rest of the world has moved on from this non-event.
Come back in a year’s time what the IOPC finally conclude their investigation, clear the officer of any crimes / misconduct, but make recommendations for future incidents / third parties to contact in such situations.
Should already have a list of third parties to make contact with. We had them in the oldie days in the 80's and 90's (info supplied by neighbourhood officers) - why dont they already have them now?Come back in a year’s time what the IOPC finally conclude their investigation, clear the officer of any crimes / misconduct, but make recommendations for future incidents / third parties to contact in such situations.
If someone is going to provide a 24/7 'on call' service to emergency services they generally want paying for it.
Covering every possible eventuality is almost impossible.
This is an example that springs to mind in my old beat...
https://news.sky.com/story/west-bromwich-police-re...
Noticed the article saying RSPCA wouldn't come out due to time of day...
Would the taxpayer want or expect every police force to pay a retainer for a 24/7 on call reptile handler, in case another giant snake turns up slithering around the streets of Sandwell or wherever? Or would that money be better off saved since it's not likely to be a regular call out?
Edited by WolvesWill on Thursday 20th June 05:38
WolvesWill said:
Would the taxpayer want or expect every police force to pay a retainer for a 24/7 on call reptile handler, in case another giant snake turns up slithering around the streets of Sandwell or wherever? Or would that money be better off saved since it's not likely to be a regular call out?
A better idea would be to have an animal specialist sat in the back of every police car, just in case 
The Gauge said:
WolvesWill said:
Would the taxpayer want or expect every police force to pay a retainer for a 24/7 on call reptile handler, in case another giant snake turns up slithering around the streets of Sandwell or wherever? Or would that money be better off saved since it's not likely to be a regular call out?
A better idea would be to have an animal specialist sat in the back of every police car, just in case 
The police don’t trigger me personally (as they don’t keep knicking me or my family for criminal activity), but these types of threads amuse me when some people openly have a dig.
Evanivitch said:
DonkeyApple said:
Evanivitch said:
DonkeyApple said:
They wouldn't last for long and die a pretty horrible death as even the old, hardy breeds are still manmade, not natural so require ongoing maintenance.
Proper hardy domestic breeds are still pretty robust to most the UK can throw at them. Provided that is they're not kept on intensively grazed land with no natural shelter.Nibbles_bits said:
Tenacious said:
Nibbles_bits said:
Stella Tortoise said:
Nibbles_bits said:
Bigends said:
Its fortunate in a way that the calf finished up as walking wounded. Had it broken a leg or two and lay or staggered around bellowing in agony with the Police having no immediate means to finish it off then the level of criticism levelled now would be as nothing. Its more by luck than judgement that this wasnt the case. The driver had no idea as what the consequences of their action were likely to be. I wonder what they hoped to achieve by running the calf over - was the aim to kill it or merely disable - theyll have to explain this to the enquiry
Obviously he wanted to kill it. He's out of control. Really should have been weeded out by vetting.Policemanladyperson bad
Because I don't think, based on the information, the officer did wrong?
Or because the comment is sarcastic?
You're happy to make your judgment without those questions being answered. Thats what I find notable. Investigative mind, but not when its an officer instead of a member of the public.
Cows' behaviour can vary from docile to aggressive.
Years agi I spent time on my uncle's farm. Never had any issues, even when herding them along a B road for about 1/4 mile for milking.
They can be curious/ nosey.
I used to fish on the Tywi river. Once in a field where there were heifers ( young females) they came up and were sniffing, licking my waders. No fear from them or me.
In the next field was a herd of bullocks ( young males ). One seemed to think he was the alpha male. I was on the bank edge beliw field level. He was parading round snorting. I kept an eye on him. He started to approach so i yelled and waved my arms. He stopped and went away. If he had charged I' have had to do a matador, jump aside, let him end up in the deep water behind. Would I have managedit? Don't know. At night I nearly walked into cows lying down as I didn't see them. Never a bad reaction.
A couple of years before we had messages from the Angling Club to avoid one area as the farmer was breeding Spanish fighting bulls. There were signs up as well.
Adult cows with a calf were always worth watching. Even walking a dog on a lead could set them off, but the farm dogs were ignored, just complying if being herded by them.
In the milking parlour/ cowshed, they were very docile.
Your familiarity with the animals meant you could recognise behaviour and avoid situations. No experience could cause you problems.
Years agi I spent time on my uncle's farm. Never had any issues, even when herding them along a B road for about 1/4 mile for milking.
They can be curious/ nosey.
I used to fish on the Tywi river. Once in a field where there were heifers ( young females) they came up and were sniffing, licking my waders. No fear from them or me.
In the next field was a herd of bullocks ( young males ). One seemed to think he was the alpha male. I was on the bank edge beliw field level. He was parading round snorting. I kept an eye on him. He started to approach so i yelled and waved my arms. He stopped and went away. If he had charged I' have had to do a matador, jump aside, let him end up in the deep water behind. Would I have managedit? Don't know. At night I nearly walked into cows lying down as I didn't see them. Never a bad reaction.
A couple of years before we had messages from the Angling Club to avoid one area as the farmer was breeding Spanish fighting bulls. There were signs up as well.
Adult cows with a calf were always worth watching. Even walking a dog on a lead could set them off, but the farm dogs were ignored, just complying if being herded by them.
In the milking parlour/ cowshed, they were very docile.
Your familiarity with the animals meant you could recognise behaviour and avoid situations. No experience could cause you problems.
sospan said:
I used to fish on the Tywi river. Once in a field where there were heifers ( young females) they came up and were sniffing, licking my waders. No fear from them or me.
In the next field was a herd of bullocks ( young males ). One seemed to think he was the alpha male. I was on the bank edge beliw field level. He was parading round snorting. I kept an eye on him. He started to approach so i yelled and waved my arms. He stopped and went away.
I've had similar experiences. Getting the feeling that you are being watched and turning round from the river to find an entire herd of bullocks intently watching you can be a bit disturbing. Never had any aggression from them, though I have had some from a full grown bull. We had waded across the river and put our gear down on the opposite bank so we could stand in the river and fish, which was naughty because we only had the right of access to the other bank which didn't have anywhere to put our things down. The bull came down to the water's edge and wouldn't let us retrieve our kit. Farmer appeared at some point with a little yappy dog which chased the bull away. And then the chap had a good old fashioned farmer moan at us In the next field was a herd of bullocks ( young males ). One seemed to think he was the alpha male. I was on the bank edge beliw field level. He was parading round snorting. I kept an eye on him. He started to approach so i yelled and waved my arms. He stopped and went away.
Bigends said:
MrBogSmith said:
The rest of the world has moved on from this non-event.
Come back in a year’s time what the IOPC finally conclude their investigation, clear the officer of any crimes / misconduct, but make recommendations for future incidents / third parties to contact in such situations.
IOPC are no longer investigating - its being dealt with in-houseCome back in a year’s time what the IOPC finally conclude their investigation, clear the officer of any crimes / misconduct, but make recommendations for future incidents / third parties to contact in such situations.
Gassing Station | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff