Police run over calf - reasonable?
Discussion
Greendubber said:
From what I gather the Police always investigate first. The public can complain directly to the IOPC but they would always pass it on to the force to investigate first. If the complainant is not happy then and only then can it be referred to the IOPCAll explained here.......
https://www.policeconduct.gov.uk/complaints/guide-...
dickymint said:
Greendubber said:
From what I gather the Police always investigate first. The public can complain directly to the IOPC but they would always pass it on to the force to investigate first. If the complainant is not happy then and only then can it be referred to the IOPCAll explained here.......
https://www.policeconduct.gov.uk/complaints/guide-...
I'm pointing out that this friendly little pet cow appears to have been a little bit more than a timid farmyard animal. That may go some way to explain the actions we saw being taken.
TGCOTF-dewey said:
Dave Hedgehog said:
we used cattle prods all the time on my cousins dairy farm to encourage them to change direction if they were being unhelpful, i don't know if they are legal any more, but electric fences still are and cows are contained by them (mostly)
Bit harsh on your cousins. Can't you just ask them to change direction? I'm not keen on them and on one or two occasions have felt like grabbing it off the user and prodding him with it. It's usually used by angry, lazy fat people.
Cattle aren't stupid and learn depending on how well or badly they are treated.
Greendubber said:
Interestingly a friend of mine, IQ 167 and engages in human behaviour, doesn't read the Guardian.... spants said:
How long would they live for - naturally vs killed for food?.
No matter what you think your standards are - Red Tractor have already been exposed as a marketing scam - the animals suffer tremendously when their babies are removed and very stressed by transport to a slaughterhouse.
The "And?" part is obvious. You do not need meat and dairy in your diet.We have so many better options now. Go vegan for the animals.
(I live in the countryside, not a "townie")
They wouldn't last for long and die a pretty horrible death as even the old, hardy breeds are still manmade, not natural so require ongoing maintenance. No matter what you think your standards are - Red Tractor have already been exposed as a marketing scam - the animals suffer tremendously when their babies are removed and very stressed by transport to a slaughterhouse.
The "And?" part is obvious. You do not need meat and dairy in your diet.We have so many better options now. Go vegan for the animals.
(I live in the countryside, not a "townie")
They exist to be cared for correctly and then eaten and during their life they put nutrients into the soil for crops.
Same with cattle. Man made so wouldn't survive long without fettling.
What we do want to be doing is restricting imports of meat, especially beef as a lot of that isn't raised in natural grassland like here and in other temperate climates where grass is the natural non woodland crop. And alongside limiting imports, spike the prices much higher as meat has become far too cheap, making it hard for farmers to raise them how they'd wish.
that's not true. I've seen bullocks in their 20's. Not kept in a commercial sense but on a smallholding. Coincidentally in Surrey too. Kept on his rough land basically to stop itinerants parking caravans on his ground.
I was sent to blood sample them, told they were Highlands. They weren't just feral cattle with horns.
In the early 90s when I was an AI man I inseminated a Sim cow. She was 21 the same year I was.
Beef cattle (cows) regularly live til 12/14
Dairy cows somewhat different probably 6 or 7
As always there's exceptions.
this may be of interest to some:
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/governmen...
I was sent to blood sample them, told they were Highlands. They weren't just feral cattle with horns.
In the early 90s when I was an AI man I inseminated a Sim cow. She was 21 the same year I was.
Beef cattle (cows) regularly live til 12/14
Dairy cows somewhat different probably 6 or 7
As always there's exceptions.
this may be of interest to some:
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/governmen...
DonkeyApple said:
They wouldn't last for long and die a pretty horrible death as even the old, hardy breeds are still manmade, not natural so require ongoing maintenance.
Proper hardy domestic breeds are still pretty robust to most the UK can throw at them. Provided that is they're not kept on intensively grazed land with no natural shelter.Nibbles_bits said:
Bigends said:
Its fortunate in a way that the calf finished up as walking wounded. Had it broken a leg or two and lay or staggered around bellowing in agony with the Police having no immediate means to finish it off then the level of criticism levelled now would be as nothing. Its more by luck than judgement that this wasnt the case. The driver had no idea as what the consequences of their action were likely to be. I wonder what they hoped to achieve by running the calf over - was the aim to kill it or merely disable - theyll have to explain this to the enquiry
Obviously he wanted to kill it. He's out of control. Really should have been weeded out by vetting.Policemanladyperson bad
Greendubber said:
dickymint said:
Greendubber said:
From what I gather the Police always investigate first. The public can complain directly to the IOPC but they would always pass it on to the force to investigate first. If the complainant is not happy then and only then can it be referred to the IOPCAll explained here.......
https://www.policeconduct.gov.uk/complaints/guide-...
I'm pointing out that this friendly little pet cow appears to have been a little bit more than a timid farmyard animal. That may go some way to explain the actions we saw being taken.
And by the way I lived with my parents on their smallholding with cattle that would occasionally break out and wander down an old unused railway line - once into town itself on a busy day. None needed shooting or rammed.
DonkeyApple said:
The males are dead within a week or so maybe a few months at best for veal but they're normally exported for that not long after birth. The girls only get 18 mo this if they're for beef. Milk cows get around 4-5 years. Not sure how long she gets as a breeder? Or, for that matter, whether it ever was until the other day?
Some absolute drivel on here, I don’t mind folks with differing morals/beliefs around keeping/eating animals but please don’t try and pass that lot off as fact.(If you want some more cruelty propaganda’ they do put a ring on most of the male balls to prevent them from sexually maturing & making meat tough & tainted as they grow, but appreciate growing them for a couple of years conflicts a bit with dying at a week…)
Live calf exports has not happened for several years
Male calves are rarely shot now for 2 reasons
1: Beef trade is buoyant it's worth finishing even non beef breeds
BUT MORE IMPORTANTLY
2: the use of sexed semen widespread in AI has reduced unwanted male calves
Yep AudyAudi much drivel spouted here maybe indicative of the whole public furore around this cow being run down story.
Male calves are rarely shot now for 2 reasons
1: Beef trade is buoyant it's worth finishing even non beef breeds
BUT MORE IMPORTANTLY
2: the use of sexed semen widespread in AI has reduced unwanted male calves
Yep AudyAudi much drivel spouted here maybe indicative of the whole public furore around this cow being run down story.
Edited by loskie on Wednesday 19th June 19:35
dickymint said:
Greendubber said:
dickymint said:
Greendubber said:
From what I gather the Police always investigate first. The public can complain directly to the IOPC but they would always pass it on to the force to investigate first. If the complainant is not happy then and only then can it be referred to the IOPCAll explained here.......
https://www.policeconduct.gov.uk/complaints/guide-...
I'm pointing out that this friendly little pet cow appears to have been a little bit more than a timid farmyard animal. That may go some way to explain the actions we saw being taken.
Force refers itself, IOPC look at it, send it back to be dealt with by the owning force was my understanding.
dickymint said:
And by the way I lived with my parents on their smallholding with cattle that would occasionally break out and wander down an old unused railway line - once into town itself on a busy day. None needed shooting or rammed.
Well that's good to know, however cows have had to be killed before that have simply wondered into the wrong area, even by police ramming them in a van which resulted in no misconduct being identified AFAIK. loskie said:
that's not true. I've seen bullocks in their 20's. Not kept in a commercial sense but on a smallholding. Coincidentally in Surrey too. Kept on his rough land basically to stop itinerants parking caravans on his ground.
I was sent to blood sample them, told they were Highlands. They weren't just feral cattle with horns.
In the early 90s when I was an AI man I inseminated a Sim cow. She was 21 the same year I was.
Beef cattle (cows) regularly live til 12/14
Dairy cows somewhat different probably 6 or 7
As always there's exceptions.
this may be of interest to some:
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/governmen...
But what's not true? The dates I have are roughly when we whack them, not how lomg they could actually live as pets. A cow will easily live to 20 but not without human assistance in terms of ongoing maintenance. Sheep are even more specialist domesticated and need even more input. I was sent to blood sample them, told they were Highlands. They weren't just feral cattle with horns.
In the early 90s when I was an AI man I inseminated a Sim cow. She was 21 the same year I was.
Beef cattle (cows) regularly live til 12/14
Dairy cows somewhat different probably 6 or 7
As always there's exceptions.
this may be of interest to some:
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/governmen...
Evanivitch said:
DonkeyApple said:
They wouldn't last for long and die a pretty horrible death as even the old, hardy breeds are still manmade, not natural so require ongoing maintenance.
Proper hardy domestic breeds are still pretty robust to most the UK can throw at them. Provided that is they're not kept on intensively grazed land with no natural shelter.AndyAudi said:
DonkeyApple said:
The males are dead within a week or so maybe a few months at best for veal but they're normally exported for that not long after birth. The girls only get 18 mo this if they're for beef. Milk cows get around 4-5 years. Not sure how long she gets as a breeder? Or, for that matter, whether it ever was until the other day?
Some absolute drivel on here, I don’t mind folks with differing morals/beliefs around keeping/eating animals but please don’t try and pass that lot off as fact.(If you want some more cruelty propaganda’ they do put a ring on most of the male balls to prevent them from sexually maturing & making meat tough & tainted as they grow, but appreciate growing them for a couple of years conflicts a bit with dying at a week…)
Start with looking what the post was in response to numbnuts. Stella Tortoise said:
Nibbles_bits said:
Bigends said:
Its fortunate in a way that the calf finished up as walking wounded. Had it broken a leg or two and lay or staggered around bellowing in agony with the Police having no immediate means to finish it off then the level of criticism levelled now would be as nothing. Its more by luck than judgement that this wasnt the case. The driver had no idea as what the consequences of their action were likely to be. I wonder what they hoped to achieve by running the calf over - was the aim to kill it or merely disable - theyll have to explain this to the enquiry
Obviously he wanted to kill it. He's out of control. Really should have been weeded out by vetting.Policemanladyperson bad
Because I don't think, based on the information, the officer did wrong?
Or because the comment is sarcastic?
Nibbles_bits said:
Stella Tortoise said:
Nibbles_bits said:
Bigends said:
Its fortunate in a way that the calf finished up as walking wounded. Had it broken a leg or two and lay or staggered around bellowing in agony with the Police having no immediate means to finish it off then the level of criticism levelled now would be as nothing. Its more by luck than judgement that this wasnt the case. The driver had no idea as what the consequences of their action were likely to be. I wonder what they hoped to achieve by running the calf over - was the aim to kill it or merely disable - theyll have to explain this to the enquiry
Obviously he wanted to kill it. He's out of control. Really should have been weeded out by vetting.Policemanladyperson bad
Because I don't think, based on the information, the officer did wrong?
Or because the comment is sarcastic?
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