Police run over calf - reasonable?

[DonkeyApple]

otolith said:

DonkeyApple said:

The officer has learned that next time a farmer fails to co rain his animals and they get loose where they could cause harm to people, he needs to be a little more firm with the throttle and brake a little later?

Next time the cow through the windscreen will provide feedback to ease off a bit.

That's going to be a risk that requires a lot of specialist training but having the skill to punt a cow over the hedge back into the field is clearly essential.

I think the real issue here is that they were provincial plod. A proper urban one would have years of experience wrestling enormous, violent and confused heffers to the ground every Saturday night outside 'Spoons.

[Evanivitch]

The Gauge said:

The police aren’t farmers who aren’t answerable to the public. Farmers can do as they wish. Police can’t just use taser cus they want to. They have to comply with Home Office guidelines and their tasers carry 50,000 volts.

Handling of livestock in slaughterhouses (when they're often pretty damp stressed) is strictly controlled with cameras and approved handling techniques. You'll lose your job pretty quickly if found abusing animals. The idea anyone that handles animals can do as they wish is a joke.

[TwigtheWonderkid]

dickymint said:

otolith said:

Watching the video on the BBC - it got up and ran away again after being hit by the car, so what is it that people think that achieved?

Achieved absolutely nothing.

I've done many things in my life that have achieved nothing. Trying to talk sense to people on here is one of them. The thing is, at the time of doing it, I thought it would achieve something, and that what I was doing was the best course of action.

Hindsight always comes with 20/20 vision. When I walk out of the football stadium at full time when the game has been lost, I'm surrounded by people picking the side that the manager should have picked.

[DonkeyApple]

Evanivitch said:

Handling of livestock in slaughterhouses (when they're often pretty damp stressed) is strictly controlled with cameras and approved handling techniques. You'll lose your job pretty quickly if found abusing animals. The idea anyone that handles animals can do as they wish is a joke.

It's also remarkably easy to slam a bolt through a cows head when it is firmly held in position.

The issue here is that one had a large and seemingly startled creature that was moving about near people. People thinking some vet in the early hours is going to be operating at SAS target dispatch levels is in cloud cuckoo land. As are those who think plod should have tried to taser the large animal, putting themselves at risk if they were even able to get remotely close enough. In the absence of the farmer and his people to herd and restrain his own animal the police just did the logical last resort act which was to stop it running about by using a car. Very sad, very unfortunate but no one is to blame bar the owner of the animal and the chance are they did nothing wrong. Shot happens, no one else got hurt and in a spot of good fortune the cow will live a bit longer before a bolt is smashed through the top of its head and its carcass is sliced and diced and on the shelves tout suite.

[Somewhatfoolish]

DonkeyApple said:

Evanivitch said:

Handling of livestock in slaughterhouses (when they're often pretty damp stressed) is strictly controlled with cameras and approved handling techniques. You'll lose your job pretty quickly if found abusing animals. The idea anyone that handles animals can do as they wish is a joke.

It's also remarkably easy to slam a bolt through a cows head when it is firmly held in position.

The issue here is that one had a large and seemingly startled creature that was moving about near people. People thinking some vet in the early hours is going to be operating at SAS target dispatch levels is in cloud cuckoo land. As are those who think plod should have tried to taser the large animal, putting themselves at risk if they were even able to get remotely close enough. In the absence of the farmer and his people to herd and restrain his own animal the police just did the logical last resort act which was to stop it running about by using a car. Very sad, very unfortunate but no one is to blame bar the owner of the animal and the chance are they did nothing wrong. Shot happens, no one else got hurt and in a spot of good fortune the cow will live a bit longer before a bolt is smashed through the top of its head and its carcass is sliced and diced and on the shelves tout suite.

Quite a lot longer actually. It was apparently destined to be a breeding cow, which coincidentally is presumably the type the farmer will get most compensation fore. You can keep up with the fate of the cow in your favourite tabloid. Her name is Beau Lucy and she's currently single. I'm not making this up.

Edit: There's even a gypsy angle

Edited by Somewhatfoolish on Wednesday 19th June 16:12

[otolith]

DonkeyApple said:

I think the real issue here is that they were provincial plod. A proper urban one would have years of experience wrestling enormous, violent and confused heffers to the ground every Saturday night outside 'Spoons.

At least this one won't accuse them of grabbing its udders.

[Gary C]

what about the wimp doing laps around the car with the heifer following

[otolith]

TwigtheWonderkid said:

I've done many things in my life that have achieved nothing.

And do you say "That was the right thing to do" or "That was the wrong thing to do but seemed like a good idea at the time"?

[DonkeyApple]

Somewhatfoolish said:

Quite a lot longer actually. It was apparently destined to be a breeding cow, which coincidentally is presumably the type the farmer will get most compensation fore. You can keep up with the fate of the cow in your favourite tabloid. Her name is Beau Lucy and she's currently single. I'm not making this up.

Edit: There's even a gypsy angle

Edited by Somewhatfoolish on Wednesday 19th June 16:12

The males are dead within a week or so maybe a few months at best for veal but they're normally exported for that not long after birth. The girls only get 18 mo this if they're for beef. Milk cows get around 4-5 years. Not sure how long she gets as a breeder? Or, for that matter, whether it ever was until the other day?

Edited by DonkeyApple on Wednesday 19th June 16:31

[Evanivitch]

Somewhatfoolish said:

Quite a lot longer actually. It was apparently destined to be a breeding cow, which coincidentally is presumably the type the farmer will get most compensation fore. You can keep up with the fate of the cow in your favourite tabloid. Her name is Beau Lucy and she's currently single. I'm not making this up.

Edit: There's even a gypsy angle

Edited by Somewhatfoolish on Wednesday 19th June 16:12

Is breeding cow a euphemism used for dairy cattle these days?

[Pica-Pica]

TwigtheWonderkid said:

I've done many things in my life that have achieved nothing. Trying to talk sense to people on here is one of them. The thing is, at the time of doing it, I thought it would achieve something, and that what I was doing was the best course of action.

Hindsight always comes with 20/20 vision. When I walk out of the football stadium at full time when the game has been lost, I'm surrounded by people picking the side that the manager should have picked.

6/6 vision. No Americanisms here please!

[Greendubber]

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/article/2024/j...

[TwigtheWonderkid]

otolith said:

TwigtheWonderkid said:

I've done many things in my life that have achieved nothing.

And do you say "That was the right thing to do" or "That was the wrong thing to do but seemed like a good idea at the time"?

Often it was the right thing to do at the time, even though it didn't work out.

[spants]

Mammasaid said:

spants said:

how many of you saying "at least the calf is ok" "the vet is looking after it" but still eat meat?

The calf is being patched up, and then killed for steak soon..... make the connection.

And?

I farm, we've got sheep and I'm in no doubt of where the lambs go from the auction. I also love a leg of lamb as much as the next man.

The sheep (and all our other animals) are kept to the highest possible standards that we can, and their welfare is paramount.

How long would they live for - naturally vs killed for food?.
No matter what you think your standards are - Red Tractor have already been exposed as a marketing scam - the animals suffer tremendously when their babies are removed and very stressed by transport to a slaughterhouse.

The "And?" part is obvious. You do not need meat and dairy in your diet.We have so many better options now. Go vegan for the animals.
(I live in the countryside, not a "townie")

[monthou]

spants said:

How long would they live for - naturally vs killed for food?.
No matter what you think your standards are - Red Tractor have already been exposed as a marketing scam - the animals suffer tremendously when their babies are removed and very stressed by transport to a slaughterhouse.

The "And?" part is obvious. You do not need meat and dairy in your diet.We have so many better options now. Go vegan for the animals.
(I live in the countryside, not a "townie")

Presumably the answer is they wouldn't live at all, outside of zoos and hobby farms?

[Bigends]

No information released to date that the officer was instructed from on high to bring the incident to a halt using his vehicle. So theyre currently carrying the can for the current public backlash until this is clarified.

[dickymint]

Greendubber said:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/article/2024/j...

From what I gather the Police always investigate first. The public can complain directly to the IOPC but they would always pass it on to the force to investigate first. If the complainant is not happy then and only then can it be referred to the IOPC


All explained here.......


https://www.policeconduct.gov.uk/complaints/guide-...

[Greendubber]

dickymint said:

Greendubber said:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/article/2024/j...

From what I gather the Police always investigate first. The public can complain directly to the IOPC but they would always pass it on to the force to investigate first. If the complainant is not happy then and only then can it be referred to the IOPC


All explained here.......


https://www.policeconduct.gov.uk/complaints/guide-...

I'm well aware of how it works thank you, IOPC have kicked it back to the owning force as it doesn't warrant their attention.

I'm pointing out that this friendly little pet cow appears to have been a little bit more than a timid farmyard animal. That may go some way to explain the actions we saw being taken.

[loskie]

TGCOTF-dewey said:

Dave Hedgehog said:

we used cattle prods all the time on my cousins dairy farm to encourage them to change direction if they were being unhelpful, i don't know if they are legal any more, but electric fences still are and cows are contained by them (mostly)

Bit harsh on your cousins. Can't you just ask them to change direction?

They are legal if the way ahead of the beast is clear to move into. However you don't see them used that often which is good. Those who do use them often misuse them and long term it quite evidently leads to stressed out fractious cattle.

I'm not keen on them and on one or two occasions have felt like grabbing it off the user and prodding him with it. It's usually used by angry, lazy fat people.



Cattle aren't stupid and learn depending on how well or badly they are treated.

[Tenacious]

Greendubber said:

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/article/2024/j...

Interestingly a friend of mine, IQ 167 and engages in human behaviour, doesn't read the Guardian....