Totting Up Ban

[E-bmw]

Dunbar871 said:

I do notice the same posters across several threads who seem to have very different views to those you’d expect to see on an enthusiast’s motoring forum.

Sorry, I didn't realise "enthusiasts" were above the law of the land and above criticism for repeatedly being caught doing the same over & over again.

Life is full of lessons to be learnt, generally when you learn them the lesson has some lasting effect.

[Blue62]

BertBert said:

Perhaps to save us all going around in circles, would you be able to say again what you think the outcome of the OP's 35 in a 30 will be please?

His final offence is 35 in a 30, he’s already on nine points so has to go to court as he faces a potential ban. The offer of 3 points and a £100 fine is long gone, as is the offer of a speed awareness course. I’m not sure if you’ve read the original post, or maybe just don’t understand how it works once you reach nine points?

My assertion that he will receive extra points (for the hard of thinking, something like six) is based on the recent experience a friend, it doesn’t mean that the OP will suffer the same fate, it’s simply an indicator of what might happen. I’ve hopefully made it clear that my advice to the OP is to get a lawyer and I hope I’ve made it clear that I didn’t say you get six points for doing 35 in a 30, the OP is totting up, as per the thread title.

[gazza285]

Dunbar871 said:

I do notice the same posters across several threads who seem to have very different views to those you’d expect to see on an enthusiast’s motoring forum.

If being an enthusiastic driver means getting caught speeding for the fifth time and facing a ban then I’m out.

It is difficult to be an enthusiastic driver if you are banned.

[Semmelweiss]

From one of our esteemed brethren's website, instead of stirring up up a whole lot of unbalanced rhetoric, read the guidelines here:

https://www.counsel.direct/news/2015/3/25/speeding...

[Dynion Araf Uchaf]

ChocolateFrog said:

You do realise that if you put Google maps on it tells you where all the speed cameras are including the mobile ones.

If you're driving badly enough to get pulled by plod then a time off the road is probably for the best.

it's a pity that google maps doesn't also tell you where all the sanctimonious bell ends live.

[Dingu]

Dunbar871 said:

I do notice the same posters across several threads who seem to have very different views to those you’d expect to see on an enthusiast’s motoring forum. Generally not helpful at all, adding zero value and very keen to criticise the op at the earliest opportunity rather than trying to help. There was a speeding one recently where the guy said he was suicidal yet the abuse from some continued, truly staggering.

Meanwhile op sounds like a clear case for an exceptional hardship argument, the focus should be on others who would suffer if you were banned, as said involving a professional legal adviser probably a good idea given the stakes.

I can see both sides. There is a line I guess.

Also it is a wide parish, some people enjoy shedding for example, it’s not all road racers and nor should it be to be considered a car enthusiast. Likewise there is an advanced driver sub forum.

The dirt bike riding chavs near me could be considered enthusiasts, they are a nuisance going on pavements and doing tricks down the road and I wish they could be stopped. Especially when they hit kids occasionally.

[siremoon]

Bullitt 1 said:

Another prick, this place is full of people who have never done anything wrong

I must be a gargantuan prick. I've been driving for 47 years and never had so much as a parking ticket. These days anyone can be unlucky and get caught by a camera due to a genuine mistake or a moments inattention but the victimhood sob stories we get on here from repeat offenders are pathetic. The only thing worse is the "speeding is my right and anyone who says otherwise is beneath contempt" merchants who regularly pop up to defend them. If someone wants to speed that's up to them, I couldn't give a toss, but the whinging when they get caught is beyond belief. I agree the cameras et al has got ridiculous but I guarantee plenty of those moaning about it are going to vote for one of the anti-motoring parties without a second thought. I hope they enjoy the consequences.

Finally, all the driving gods who will no doubt slag me off whilst paying fines and accumulating points can, in this age of soaring insurance premiums, enjoy listening to insurers explaining their premium rise is because of the points. Meanwhile, I've just renewed mine with the same insurer and my premium fell.

[Dynion Araf Uchaf]

siremoon said:

I must be a gargantuan prick. I've been driving for 47 years and never had so much as a parking ticket. These days anyone can be unlucky and get caught by a camera due to a genuine mistake or a moments inattention but the victimhood sob stories we get on here from repeat offenders are pathetic. The only thing worse is the "speeding is my right and anyone who says otherwise is beneath contempt" merchants who regularly pop up to defend them. If someone wants to speed that's up to them, I couldn't give a toss, but the whinging when they get caught is beyond belief. I agree the cameras et al has got ridiculous but I guarantee plenty of those moaning about it are going to vote for one of the anti-motoring parties without a second thought. I hope they enjoy the consequences.

Finally, all the driving gods who will no doubt slag me off whilst paying fines and accumulating points can, in this age of soaring insurance premiums, enjoy listening to insurers explaining their premium rise is because of the points. Meanwhile, I've just renewed mine with the same insurer and my premium fell.

it's not a fine.

It's the payment of an invoice that's allowed you to speed for numerous years before getting caught. Think of it as purchasing a 'pass' to speed. Paid retrospectively.

[BertBert]

Blue62 said:

His final offence is 35 in a 30, he’s already on nine points so has to go to court as he faces a potential ban. The offer of 3 points and a £100 fine is long gone, as is the offer of a speed awareness course. I’m not sure if you’ve read the original post, or maybe just don’t understand how it works once you reach nine points?

My assertion that he will receive extra points (for the hard of thinking, something like six) is based on the recent experience a friend, it doesn’t mean that the OP will suffer the same fate, it’s simply an indicator of what might happen. I’ve hopefully made it clear that my advice to the OP is to get a lawyer and I hope I’ve made it clear that I didn’t say you get six points for doing 35 in a 30, the OP is totting up, as per the thread title.

I'm just not sure why you are so snarky, but hey ho. Thanks for explaining. I don't think it works the way you describe though. The offence carries three points which will put the OP on 12 and then in line for a totter. Appreciate that your friend may have experienced something different. Did they go from 9 points then to 15 points?

[martinbiz]

Blue62 said:

NRG1976 said:

You have said it twice you absolute complete moron. Are you on drugs or something?

The OP is on nine penalty points and has just been caught speeding again, which means he won’t now receive the offer of a FPN, instead he’s been summoned to appear in a magistrates court.

A friend of mine was recently in the same situation, I’ve now bothered him for the details, his final offence was 61mph in a 50 limit, so he hired a lawyer and told the court he would likely lose his job and would suffer hardship. He was allowed to keep his licence but received a hefty fine and FIVE penalty points on his licence, taking his points total to fourteen.

If you or anyone else could be bothered to review what I originally posted you’d see that at no time have I stated that anyone would get six points for 35 in a 30, I actually used the term ‘something like six points’ to describe what I thought the OP would be in for, I think I could be a point or two out but who cares. The extra points, if awarded to the OP, will be a condition of keeping his licence I think.

I think you or your friend are both having recall issues, they would not have been issued more than 3 points for 61 in a 50, just because the court accepted their hardship plea does not then give them licence to stray outside the guidlines and issue extra points, a la "we've kindly let you keep your licence but here's some extra points instead to balance it out" It didn't happen.

You still haven't explained why you think the OP would be in for more than 3 points. Clearly you don't know how the process works and just resort to chucking insults about when in a hole and that just makes yoi look silly "Attack is the best form of defence M'lud"

[Blue62]

BertBert said:

I'm just not sure why you are so snarky, but hey ho. Thanks for explaining. I don't think it works the way you describe though. The offence carries three points which will put the OP on 12 and then in line for a totter. Appreciate that your friend may have experienced something different. Did they go from 9 points then to 15 points?

Only irritated by those people who haven’t read the OP nor followed the exchanges and jump in, see the post below. Someone has posted a very helpful link a page back, suggest you read it. Why do you think the OP has received a court summons as opposed to an FPN for doing 35 in a 30?

Twelve points is a ban (minimum six months I think), but he can try to plea mitigation, if successful he will receive a fine and points. In the case of my mate it was five points (I posted this previously) taking him to fourteen.

[Blue62]

martinbiz said:

I think you or your friend are both having recall issues, they would not have been issued more than 3 points for 61 in a 50, just because the court accepted their hardship plea does not then give them licence to stray outside the guidlines and issue extra points, a la "we've kindly let you keep your licence but here's some extra points instead to balance it out" It didn't happen.

You still haven't explained why you think the OP would be in for more than 3 points. Clearly you don't know how the process works and just resort to chucking insults about when in a hole and that just makes yoi look silly "Attack is the best form of defence M'lud"

I honestly think you should read the OP and dig out the helpful link, it will hopefully explain the predicament the OP finds himself in and explain the exchanges thereafter. Hole you say?

[JagLad]

Dynion Araf Uchaf said:

it's not a fine.

It's the payment of an invoice that's allowed you to speed for numerous years before getting caught. Think of it as purchasing a 'pass' to speed. Paid retrospectively.

It is not an invoice - you are getting confused with private parking tickets.

It is what it says - a penalty. It is provided for under the Road Traffic Act and Road Traffic Offenders' Act, both of which are criminal statutes. If an invoice remains unpaid the person owed can only pursue the debt through the County Court. If a Fixed Penalty remains unpaid the person involved will be prosecuted through the criminal courts.

[Forester1965]

JagLad said:

It is not an invoice - you are getting confused with private parking tickets.

It is what it says - a penalty. It is provided for under the Road Traffic Act and Road Traffic Offenders' Act, both of which are criminal statutes. If an invoice remains unpaid the person owed can only pursue the debt through the County Court. If a Fixed Penalty remains unpaid the person involved will be prosecuted through the criminal courts.

His point floated over your head.

He wasn't suggesting a speeding fine was an actual invoice.

[Blue62]

Forester1965 said:

His point floated over your head.

He wasn't suggesting a speeding fine was an actual invoice.

I think you’re wasting your time, there’s some odd people in this part of PH, don’t stray here too often but it’s even worse than NP&E.

[BertBert]

Blue62 said:

Only irritated by those people who haven’t read the OP nor followed the exchanges and jump in, see the post below. Someone has posted a very helpful link a page back, suggest you read it. Why do you think the OP has received a court summons as opposed to an FPN for doing 35 in a 30?

Twelve points is a ban (minimum six months I think), but he can try to plea mitigation, if successful he will receive a fine and points. In the case of my mate it was five points (I posted this previously) taking him to fourteen.

The OP isn't getting an FPN as the offence would carry 3 points and take him to 12 thence a totter as you say. I don't understand where the 6 points you mentioned comes in?

[Blue62]

BertBert said:

The OP isn't getting an FPN as the offence would carry 3 points and take him to 12 thence a totter as you say. I don't understand where the 6 points you mentioned comes in?

I’m beginning to think this is a wind up! I can see that you can’t be bothered to scroll back, the six points comment (which I will regret for all eternity) was conjecture on my part I actually wrote ‘something like six points’ based on my friend’s experience, in fact it was five. If the OP avoids a ban he will get a big fine (or is it an invoice) and additional points, I don’t know how many but in my mates case it was five, I so wish it had been six.

If it’s not clear by now then I’m sorry for all the confusion and upset I have caused.

[martinbiz]

Blue62 said:

I’m beginning to think this is a wind up! I can see that you can’t be bothered to scroll back, the six points comment (which I will regret for all eternity) was conjecture on my part I actually wrote ‘something like six points’ based on my friend’s experience, in fact it was five. If the OP avoids a ban he will get a big fine (or is it an invoice) and additional points, I don’t know how many but in my mates case it was five, I so wish it had been six.

If it’s not clear by now then I’m sorry for all the confusion and upset I have caused.

I think most on here are thinking the wind up is coming from your direction. All of the above is utter rubbish, as I and others have said the offence carries 3 points and an income related fine if dealt with in court, the OP will not be getting extra points or a bigger fine on a whim from the bench just because they decided to accept his hardship plea

All you have done is deflect questions and write drivel

Example : If the OP avoids a ban he will get a big fine (or is it an invoice) and additional points

[JagLad]

Blue62 said:

If it’s not clear by now then I’m sorry for all the confusion and upset I have caused.

No apology is necessary but it's important to make sure that people who look for advice are told what is likely to happen and, just as importantly, what is not.

So I will just explain the process once more, so as to illustrate that what happened to your mate is unlikely to happen in this case. I'm not winding anybody up; I don't "get off" on this sort of thing. It just happens that I know how the process normally works.

!. He will be sentenced for the latest offence (35 in a 30). This will almost certainly be a fine of one third of a week's net income (i.e. half a week's income, reduced by a third for his guilty plea). He will also be ordered to pay costs (of around £90) and a "victim surcharge" of 10% of the fine. He will also have three points imposed on his driving record and so will face a "totting up" ban of six months.

2. Before that ban is imposed he will be asked if he wants to make an "exceptional hardship" (EH) argument.

3. If he does not, he will be disqualified for six months and ordered to pay the fine etc. He will leave the court disqualified from driving but with no points on his record.

4. If he does, the court will hear his argument.

5. If it is unsuccessful, step #3 will be invoked.

6. If it is successful, he will not be disqualified. He will be ordered to pay the fine and costs announced in step #1. He will leave the court able to drive, but with 12 points on his licence. He will be warned that any further offence which attracts points (committed before the earliest of the 12 points are three years old - based on the date of the offence) will see him face a totting up ban again. He will be further warned that he cannot use the same reasons for a second EH argument for three years.

The important point to note is that the sentence in Step #1 is not modified if the EH argument is successful. There is no prospect of additional points or a heavier fine. The sentence for the latest offence is decided before any EH argument is made, it stands alone and is independent of the result of the EH argument.

If your mate who got five points is telling you the truth he was sentenced incorrectly and that is most unlikely to happen to this OP. That's why I believe it is misleading to suggest that there is anything loke a decent chance hat it might.

Edited by JagLad on Tuesday 2nd July 14:29

[w8pmc]

JagLad said:

No apology is necessary but it's important to make sure that people who look for advice are told what is likely to happen and, just as importantly, what is not.

So I will just explain the process once more, so as to illustrate that what happened to your mate is unlikely to happen in this case. I'm not winding anybody up; I don't "get off" on this sort of thing. It just happens that I know how the process normally works.

!. He will be sentenced for the latest offence (35 in a 30). This will almost certainly be a fine of one third of a week's net income (i.e. half a week's income, reduced by a third for his guilty plea). He will also be ordered to pay costs (of around £90) and a "victim surcharge" of 10% of the fine. He will also have three points imposed on his driving record and so will face a "totting up" ban of six months.

2. Before that ban is imposed he will be asked if he wants to make an "exceptional hardship" (EH) argument.

3. If he does not, he will be disqualified for six months and ordered to pay the fine etc. He will leave the court disqualified from driving but with no points on his record.

4. If he does, the court will hear his argument.

5. If it is unsuccessful, step #3 will be invoked.

6. If it is successful, he will not be disqualified. He will be ordered to pay the fine and costs announced in step #1. He will leave the court able to drive, but with 12 points on his licence. He will be warned that any further offence which attracts points (committed before the earliest of the 12 points are three years old - based on the date of the offence) will see him face a totting up ban again. He will be further warned that he cannot use the same reasons for a second EH argument for three years.

The important point to note is that the sentence in Step #1 is not modified if the EH argument is successful. There is no prospect of additional points or a heavier fine. The sentence for the latest offence is decided before any EH argument is made, it stands alone and is independent of the result of the EH argument.

If your mate who got five points is telling you the truth he was sentenced incorrectly and that is most unlikely to happen to this OP. That's why I believe it is misleading to suggest that there is anything loke a decent chance hat it might.

Edited by JagLad on Tuesday 2nd July 14:29

I'm in no way disputing the above, however when (many many) years ago i was faced with the same scenario (guessing was around 25yrs ago for me), i was given 6 points upon acceptance of my totting up EH plea (all other points you make regarding sentence & the EH plea were present).

Was almost a joke made of this as i then was the proud owner of 15 points, so needed to lose 9 points (3 x 3 point offences) before i was in a clear margin of safety.

Safe to say, from that day forth i've never picked up any speeding tickets & am fairly careful 100% of the time, but that also doesn't mean i've never strayed above 70mph on a motorway.