Speed Awareness Course

[Pica-Pica]

martinbiz said:

BertBert said:

drmotorsport said:

Of course not, but i'm in no position to start arguing with the trainer I'd dearly love to see some enforcement of MLM's who are just a rolling road block.

So why was it an interesting takeaway if you didn't believe it?

It's no big deal of course, but there's no reason for the SAC trainers to spout bks. I am an expert in SACs (I'm obviously not listening) but I can't see why they see the need to make stuff up. The job of driver training to produce better drivers is a fabulous enterprise and I am a big fan - I've learned a lot from driver training over the years. So where is the need to add a dollop of bks to the affair? It's just very strange.

I think a lot of it, rather than making it up is they all work from a script and in most cases the script is well ot ouf date and living in the past. Stopping distances is one example

Stopping distance has increased. TRL reckons that thinking distance is closer to 1.5 seconds, than the 0.67 seconds currently assumed.

[Short Grain]

Pica-Pica said:

Short Grain said:

Did one around 2005 and the guy was very good. Engaging, knowledgeable, and well able to shut down the 2 gobstes who thought they knew the law better than him! They didn't of course!
They are quite a money spinner though! Approximately 30 people in my group, with the same number in the room next door, so 60 x £95 = £5,700 x 5 days a week = £28,500 per week, on average! He told us he'd been fully booked for months!

I did get done at 107mph on the M62 in 2010 and that went straight to court! Cost me around a grand and 6 points but no ban! That includes a barristers 30 minutes of advice, a solicitor at court, a new suit, and the fine and costs! I paid a £500 up front, 'all in' fee. If I'd not done that, the legal stuff alone would have been £1,100!

Driven like Miss Daisy since then. Less stress, less hassle, a lot cheaper, and a clean licence!

How many times !!! Miss Daisy was NOT the driver, that was Hoke Colburn.

I did say driven, sort of implies I was driven by someone!




I wasn't of course

Edited by Short Grain on Friday 21st June 05:49

[Sheepshanks]

cerb4.5lee said:

drmotorsport said:

My turn for one of these new fangled courses this afternoon. I've had a clean license for about 30 years so this course is an embarrasing insult to my scamera van observation skills (It was dusk and I thought they go home in poor visibility) spotted it too late on an empty A64 in York, my bad.

That was similar to me and I'd managed to go 34 years without getting caught. I was angry/frustrated/embarrassed if I'm honest, but in the end I actually really enjoyed the speed awareness course much to my surprise though!

Was it mostly older people on the course? One of my daughters did one for 35 in a 30 and she said she felt very out of place amongst the old folk, who mostly didn’t have a clue about anything.

[markymarkthree]

Sebring440 said:

drmotorsport said:

this course is an embarrasing insult to my scamera van observation skills.

Observation skills? If you observe it, it's too late, Shirley?

Not it you are on a motorcycle.

[cerb4.5lee]

Sheepshanks said:

cerb4.5lee said:

drmotorsport said:

My turn for one of these new fangled courses this afternoon. I've had a clean license for about 30 years so this course is an embarrasing insult to my scamera van observation skills (It was dusk and I thought they go home in poor visibility) spotted it too late on an empty A64 in York, my bad.

That was similar to me and I'd managed to go 34 years without getting caught. I was angry/frustrated/embarrassed if I'm honest, but in the end I actually really enjoyed the speed awareness course much to my surprise though!

Was it mostly older people on the course? One of my daughters did one for 35 in a 30 and she said she felt very out of place amongst the old folk, who mostly didn’t have a clue about anything.

Yes! I'm in my early 50's, and I was the second youngest in there by a mile! I was also surprised with the age demographic to be honest.

[ARHarh]

I think if you physically attend a course rather than zoom, you will find the people older as they tend not to use zoom to the same extent the youngsters do.

The courses i have attended were pre covid and the zoom option was not available so the age range was much wider. And the attendees who had no idea of speed limits were not just the older ones.

[Drawweight]

cerb4.5lee said:

Sheepshanks said:

cerb4.5lee said:

drmotorsport said:

My turn for one of these new fangled courses this afternoon. I've had a clean license for about 30 years so this course is an embarrasing insult to my scamera van observation skills (It was dusk and I thought they go home in poor visibility) spotted it too late on an empty A64 in York, my bad.

That was similar to me and I'd managed to go 34 years without getting caught. I was angry/frustrated/embarrassed if I'm honest, but in the end I actually really enjoyed the speed awareness course much to my surprise though!

Was it mostly older people on the course? One of my daughters did one for 35 in a 30 and she said she felt very out of place amongst the old folk, who mostly didn’t have a clue about anything.

Yes! I'm in my early 50's, and I was the second youngest in there by a mile! I was also surprised with the age demographic to be honest.

Several reasons I can think of.

Older people have more time on their hands to spare. It’s more difficult to fit a course in if you’re working all the hours you can.

I wouldn’t mind sitting getting lectured for a couple of hours, possibly younger people won’t have that frame of mind and would rather just take the points.

Older people value a clean licence (well I do anyway). Get a few points on and suddenly you’re having to watch your step.

[martinbiz]

Pica-Pica said:

martinbiz said:

BertBert said:

drmotorsport said:

Of course not, but i'm in no position to start arguing with the trainer I'd dearly love to see some enforcement of MLM's who are just a rolling road block.

So why was it an interesting takeaway if you didn't believe it?

It's no big deal of course, but there's no reason for the SAC trainers to spout bks. I am an expert in SACs (I'm obviously not listening) but I can't see why they see the need to make stuff up. The job of driver training to produce better drivers is a fabulous enterprise and I am a big fan - I've learned a lot from driver training over the years. So where is the need to add a dollop of bks to the affair? It's just very strange.

I think a lot of it, rather than making it up is they all work from a script and in most cases the script is well ot ouf date and living in the past. Stopping distances is one example

Stopping distance has increased. TRL reckons that thinking distance is closer to 1.5 seconds, than the 0.67 seconds currently assumed.

Yes more RAC Bunkum, they have plenty of history of that. it is split into 2 parts reaction distance and stopping disrance, the first one is hard to quantify, I was talking re the actual stopping distance which has decreased massively as much as 50% in a modern car since the 80's when the HC figures were written and the difference actully gets bigger the higher the speed

So if you want to add an increaed reaction distance to cover the worse case scenario, fair enough but it needs to be added to both stopping distances which still leaves a modern car streets ahead of a 40 year old one

Edited by martinbiz on Friday 21st June 11:11

[martinbiz]

markymarkthree said:

Sebring440 said:

drmotorsport said:

this course is an embarrasing insult to my scamera van observation skills.

Observation skills? If you observe it, it's too late, Shirley?

Not it you are on a motorcycle.

Why's that then?

[drmotorsport]

Sheepshanks said:

Was it mostly older people on the course? One of my daughters did one for 35 in a 30 and she said she felt very out of place amongst the old folk, who mostly didn’t have a clue about anything.

Was a mixed bag on my Zoom evening course. I was probably one of the older ones having just achieved 50 years, median average was in the 30's it seemed.

[markymarkthree]

martinbiz said:

markymarkthree said:

Sebring440 said:

drmotorsport said:

this course is an embarrasing insult to my scamera van observation skills.

Observation skills? If you observe it, it's too late, Shirley?

Not it you are on a motorcycle.

Why's that then?

You are gayly whizzing along on your bike, whilst rounding a bend and using your "observation skills" you spot a "scamera van" ahead. Unsure whether you were speeding you STOP, before you get to "scamera van". "Scamera van" wont have your reg yet. So you have choices.
A. carry on.
B. push bike backwards till out of sight of van or turn down a side road.
C. t-shirt falls over reg and you carry on. Highly illegal and i couldn't possibly condone this sort of action.

[Ian Geary]

markymarkthree said:

You are gayly whizzing along on your bike, whilst rounding a bend and using your "observation skills" you spot a "scamera van" ahead. Unsure whether you were speeding you STOP, before you get to "scamera van". "Scamera van" wont have your reg yet. So you have choices.
A. carry on.
B. push bike backwards till out of sight of van or turn down a side road.
C. t-shirt falls over reg and you carry on. Highly illegal and i couldn't possibly condone this sort of action.

A. There's a recent thread about an "advanced" biker on a super duke riding "defensively" to hold off a Ducati 1198 rider who overtook him on the straights, but couldn't keep up in the bends - (who he wasn't racing you understand, and all of this took place under the nsl of course)

Anyway he took umbridge about being caught by a mobile camera. They have CCTV to specifically catch vehicles with no front plate but a rear plate.

(In that bikers case, I think the van recorded the other biker's speed, but the PH member's plate...)

B. Is just highly impractical..it could be a km or more? It would also be quite unsafe depending on the verge. I've pushed a 230kg bike for a mile and was knackered. That was pushing from the bars - I'm not even sure how you'd push it backwards easily.

Plus can the operator just summon a police car whilst pushing?

C. i see what you're saying, and if the speed was mental - like court or prison time- it might be the best of a bad choice (though ideally a good rider wouldn't be in a situation where all the choices were bad).

My main concern would be it falls into perverting the course of justice, and plastic plod in the van and real plod will see it as such an affront to their authority, they will throw everything at finding out the vehicle, out of pettiness and bloody-mindedness more than the safety element imo.

Ie scouring CCTV from elsewhere like traffic cams, matching the bike and rider back. It's been done to trace YouTube type bike offences. It would be a huge risk, and I'd bet the consequences would be worse than sucking up the speeding consequence.

[BertBert]

Ian Geary said:

A. There's a recent thread about an "advanced" biker on a super duke riding "defensively" to hold off a Ducati 1198 rider who overtook him on the straights, but couldn't keep up in the bends - (who he wasn't racing you understand, and all of this took place under the nsl of course)

Anyway he took umbridge about being caught by a mobile camera. They have CCTV to specifically catch vehicles with no front plate but a rear plate.

(In that bikers case, I think the van recorded the other biker's speed, but the PH member's plate...)

B. Is just highly impractical..it could be a km or more? It would also be quite unsafe depending on the verge. I've pushed a 230kg bike for a mile and was knackered. That was pushing from the bars - I'm not even sure how you'd push it backwards easily.

Plus can the operator just summon a police car whilst pushing?

C. i see what you're saying, and if the speed was mental - like court or prison time- it might be the best of a bad choice (though ideally a good rider wouldn't be in a situation where all the choices were bad).

My main concern would be it falls into perverting the course of justice, and plastic plod in the van and real plod will see it as such an affront to their authority, they will throw everything at finding out the vehicle, out of pettiness and bloody-mindedness more than the safety element imo.

Ie scouring CCTV from elsewhere like traffic cams, matching the bike and rider back. It's been done to trace YouTube type bike offences. It would be a huge risk, and I'd bet the consequences would be worse than sucking up the speeding consequence.

Did you actually take what markymark said seriously?

[johnboy1975]

BertBert said:

shtu said:

More seriously - been caught? Taking the SAC? Accept you got caught and that maybe, just maybe, you might learn something if you go in with an open mind. Even if it's only how worryingly dense the rest of the class is.

I think it's perfectly possible to go in with an open mind to see what's to learn whilst also not just accepting things that are clearly made up that seems to be the norm of the courses I've been on.

I've learnt not to go last speed cameras at 35 on a DC at 6 in the morning on a beautiful sunny morning (context, there's a school there: not much activity at that time of morning though )

I'd have loved to take it to court and argue the case that my speed was neither excessive nor dangerous for the conditions. But obviously that would only have got me a bigger fine (lack of remorse, innit?) and at least the original 3 points, as well as taking up more time than the SAC.

The SAC wasn't terrible TBF. Most had similar stories, and the tea was nice At 50 quid a cup though, it had better be

[Pica-Pica]

johnboy1975 said:

I've learnt not to go last speed cameras at 35 on a DC at 6 in the morning on a beautiful sunny morning (context, there's a school there: not much activity at that time of morning though )

A bit of an assumption there. Many are used for pre-school clubs, not just for children either. Schools and such are often multi-use communal hubs.

(Someone else was probably thinking, “beautiful sunny morning, no one about …”)

[johnboy1975]

Pica-Pica said:

johnboy1975 said:

I've learnt not to go last speed cameras at 35 on a DC at 6 in the morning on a beautiful sunny morning (context, there's a school there: not much activity at that time of morning though )

A bit of an assumption there. Many are used for pre-school clubs, not just for children either. Schools and such are often multi-use communal hubs.

(Someone else was probably thinking, “beautiful sunny morning, no one about …”)

No assumption. Zero cars, zero pedestrians (Metal barriers in place.)

I'd rather be scanning for these "hazzards" then watching the needle doesn't creep over 33. (Yeah yeah, do both... ).

Which is why of course, people dab their brakes and do an indicated 29 (27 in all probability)

[BertBert]

johnboy1975 said:

I'd rather be scanning for these "hazzards" then watching the needle doesn't creep over 33. (Yeah yeah, do both... ).

Got it in on one. If you can't scan for hazards whilst not exceeding the speed limit then you shouldn't hold a licence.

And if you can't do that then playing exceed the speed limit but by less then 10%+2 is way above your capability.

[whimsical ninja]

I did one a few years ago. Given that nobody wanted to be there it was done pretty well. I knew most of it already although some stuff was new to me and useful (20mph limits vs 20mph zones which were fairly new at the time; hazard signs with a yellow border; how to work out what the likely limit it is from your surroundings if you're unsure). It's not earth shattering - I wouldn't suggest anyone voluntarily stumps up the £100 to go - but go in with the right attitude and you'll learn something.

[Alickadoo]

whimsical ninja said:

I did one a few years ago. Given that nobody wanted to be there it was done pretty well. I knew most of it already although some stuff was new to me and useful (20mph limits vs 20mph zones which were fairly new at the time; hazard signs with a yellow border; how to work out what the likely limit it is from your surroundings if you're unsure). It's not earth shattering - I wouldn't suggest anyone voluntarily stumps up the £100 to go - but go in with the right attitude and you'll learn something.

And, of course, by stumping up the hundred quid and a day off work, you saved yourself 3 points on your licence.

I suggest that the SAC is the sensible alternative.

[Mr Tidy]

Alickadoo said:

And, of course, by stumping up the hundred quid and a day off work, you saved yourself 3 points on your licence.

I suggest that the SAC is the sensible alternative.

It definitely is!

Years ago a work colleague couldn't be bothered doing the SAC so he just took the Fixed Penalty - within 2 weeks he got another NIP, so I learnt from his experience and opted for the SAC last year.