PSV/Coach driver hours rules

[mjb1]

Drumroll said:

Don't forget the coach driver will likely be working full time so you would need to know his driving pattern for 21 days to see what he could do on "your" trip.
He/she may need to fuel up whilst the kids are at Alton Park. It all adds to his driving time.

They could of course get a second driver, but someone would have have to pay for it. But you already think £500 is to much.

I for one would feel a lot happier, if I felt my child's coach driver wasn't pushing his driving hours just so my kid could have a couple of hours extra at an amusement park

Edited by Drumroll on Monday 1st July 16:41

I was ok with the price when it was advertised as two full days of theme parks. But they've changed the itinerary and now it's half a day and 3/4 of a day. I get that the transport, accommodation etc are essential ancillary costs to factor in, but the whole point of the trip is to visit the theme parks. Now it feels like what they're getting is almost a whistle stop glimpse of the theme parks for a lot of travelling and accommodation expense. Surely no one thinks that 4 hours at Alton Towers is good value?

There's 77 kids going on the trip, at £450 a head to the coach/tour operator. Assuming they've paid full retail price for everything (the park admissions, premier inn with evening meal and breakfast, and splash landings hotel), by my reckoning that would leave the coach company with about £15,000 to cover the transport costs, with the rest being their profit. However, I expect a tour operator is going to get a decent discount on park admissions and accommodation when they're booking for 80 people. So I suspect the coach company is getting at least £20,000 after the other expenses are taken. I do feel that it should be better organised for money they've taken.

Ultimately, I don't much care what the coach driver is doing for the rest of his 21 day pattern - that's for his employer to work out. If he needs rest days in between trips then that's just part of the overhead they should be factoring in. So far people have pointed out the extra things I wasn't aware of (part of my reason for asking), but no one appears to be saying that when taking those into account it would exceed the hours?

Anyway, it's now sounding like the driver's hours isn't actually the issue - the reason they need to leave alton towers at 2pm is to drive to the next hotel for the time that they've got the evening meal booked for. Again, if they'd stuck to the advertised itinerary the timings would have worked better. In fact they could even have had time for an extra day somewhere (a 2nd day at alton towers, or perhaps their water park).

[119]

Ok, im out.

[hidetheelephants]

mjb1 said:

Anyway, it's now sounding like the driver's hours isn't actually the issue - the reason they need to leave alton towers at 2pm is to drive to the next hotel for the time that they've got the evening meal booked for. Again, if they'd stuck to the advertised itinerary the timings would have worked better. In fact they could even have had time for an extra day somewhere (a 2nd day at alton towers, or perhaps their water park).

Any vaguely worthwhile hotel would exchange an evening meal for a snack meal of sandwiches etc in the rooms and quietly rub their hands together at the extra profit. The more you tell about this jaunt the less I'd want to have anything to do with it.

[Vasco]

mjb1 said:

I was ok with the price when it was advertised as two full days of theme parks. But they've changed the itinerary and now it's half a day and 3/4 of a day. I get that the transport, accommodation etc are essential ancillary costs to factor in, but the whole point of the trip is to visit the theme parks. Now it feels like what they're getting is almost a whistle stop glimpse of the theme parks for a lot of travelling and accommodation expense. Surely no one thinks that 4 hours at Alton Towers is good value?

There's 77 kids going on the trip, at £450 a head to the coach/tour operator. Assuming they've paid full retail price for everything (the park admissions, premier inn with evening meal and breakfast, and splash landings hotel), by my reckoning that would leave the coach company with about £15,000 to cover the transport costs, with the rest being their profit. However, I expect a tour operator is going to get a decent discount on park admissions and accommodation when they're booking for 80 people. So I suspect the coach company is getting at least £20,000 after the other expenses are taken. I do feel that it should be better organised for money they've taken.

Ultimately, I don't much care what the coach driver is doing for the rest of his 21 day pattern - that's for his employer to work out. If he needs rest days in between trips then that's just part of the overhead they should be factoring in. So far people have pointed out the extra things I wasn't aware of (part of my reason for asking), but no one appears to be saying that when taking those into account it would exceed the hours?

Anyway, it's now sounding like the driver's hours isn't actually the issue - the reason they need to leave alton towers at 2pm is to drive to the next hotel for the time that they've got the evening meal booked for. Again, if they'd stuck to the advertised itinerary the timings would have worked better. In fact they could even have had time for an extra day somewhere (a 2nd day at alton towers, or perhaps their water park).

4 hours at Alton Towers seems a bit low although some will consider it about right/quite enough.
Is this a tour operator organising the trip - or a coach company doing the planning etc?
If it's got 77 on board it's presumably a double deck coach with all the hassle of kids returning late after the breaks. It all adds up.
Where in the UK does the coach start.

[FiF]

Sorry to be that guy, but grumpy old fart mode. Alton Towers? Thorpe Park? What's wrong with a half day trip to the sewage works, going underground in the coal mining museum, like when I was a sprog.

[RayDonovan]

I'm with the OP. Sounds like poor organisation for the money it's costing. Couldn't the Coach company have another driver on the trip if there's a concern (quite rightly) on driving hours?

Leaving early just to have a Meal at the hotel is also crap. The kids don't care what/where they eat. I think they'd rather a Pizza and an additional 2 to 3 hours at AT..

[Vasco]

RayDonovan said:

I'm with the OP. Sounds like poor organisation for the money it's costing. Couldn't the Coach company have another driver on the trip if there's a concern (quite rightly) on driving hours?

Leaving early just to have a Meal at the hotel is also crap. The kids don't care what/where they eat. I think they'd rather a Pizza and an additional 2 to 3 hours at AT..

A 2pm departure from Alton Towers sounds about right for an arrival at a hotel near Thorpe Park about 5.30pm (very busy roads, rush hours, hold ups etc). Then, to check in 77 kids and get them into rooms etc suggests that a meal is probably scheduled for 7pm.
If that's not what is required then a good many of the parents need to raise it with the tour operator. If they have subcontracted the coach part to a different company then the coach operator is probably getting significantly less than you believe.

[LivLL]

RayDonovan said:

I'm with the OP. Sounds like poor organisation for the money it's costing. Couldn't the Coach company have another driver on the trip if there's a concern (quite rightly) on driving hours?

Leaving early just to have a Meal at the hotel is also crap. The kids don't care what/where they eat. I think they'd rather a Pizza and an additional 2 to 3 hours at AT..

Precisely what I was thinking £500 each and no 2nd driver. Are short coach trips really that expensive these days or are there loads of freeloaders tagging along to pay for?

[Drumroll]

LivLL said:

Precisely what I was thinking £500 each and no 2nd driver. Are short coach trips really that expensive these days or are there loads of freeloaders tagging along to pay for?

Why how many people do you think need to go with a class of 77 children going to a theme park?

Edited by Drumroll on Monday 1st July 21:02

[E36Ross]

You can drive up to 9 hours a day (Can extend to 10 twice a week) After 4.5 hours you must have a 45min brake.

56 hours a week max and 90 over a 2 week period.



In my opinion, it's a badly organised trip and nothing to do with drivers hours.

[LivLL]

Drumroll said:

LivLL said:

Precisely what I was thinking £500 each and no 2nd driver. Are short coach trips really that expensive these days or are there loads of freeloaders tagging along to pay for?

Why how many people do you think need to go with a class of 77 children going to a theme park?

Edited by Drumroll on Monday 1st July 21:02

8 to 1 normally. £38500 for the trip, Even being very generous and saying £8k all in for the adult supervision. £400 each left for the kids for 2 nights accom and 2 half days in theme parks plus bus there and back.

I don’t know, just seems super expensive to me.

[Vasco]

LivLL said:

Drumroll said:

LivLL said:

Precisely what I was thinking £500 each and no 2nd driver. Are short coach trips really that expensive these days or are there loads of freeloaders tagging along to pay for?

Why how many people do you think need to go with a class of 77 children going to a theme park?

Edited by Drumroll on Monday 1st July 21:02

8 to 1 normally. £38500 for the trip, Even being very generous and saying £8k all in for the adult supervision. £400 each left for the kids for 2 nights accom and 2 half days in theme parks plus bus there and back.

I don’t know, just seems super expensive to me.

I'm not as convinced as you that the charge is too expensive. I do, however, agree that the whole plan could be improved. The tour company (not the coach operator) should be asked for relevant comments. They may be reluctant to go in to any detail if they've added a rather sizeable profit margin for themselves.
If you're still concerned it might be best to cancel it all.

[E-bmw]

mjb1 said:

Ultimately, I don't much care what the coach driver is doing for the rest of his 21 day pattern - that's for his employer to work out. If he needs rest days in between trips then that's just part of the overhead they should be factoring in. So far people have pointed out the extra things I wasn't aware of (part of my reason for asking), but no one appears to be saying that when taking those into account it would exceed the hours?

Way to go! I wonder how you would feel if you were the driver on the job?

mjb1 said:

Anyway, it's now sounding like the driver's hours isn't actually the issue - the reason they need to leave alton towers at 2pm is to drive to the next hotel for the time that they've got the evening meal booked for. Again, if they'd stuck to the advertised itinerary the timings would have worked better. In fact they could even have had time for an extra day somewhere (a 2nd day at alton towers, or perhaps their water park).

I suspect you would be the first to complain if your child didn't get his tea as the restaurant had closed by the time they got to the hotel at 9.30 due to them spending the full day there.

[48k]

mjb1 said:

There's 77 kids going on the trip, at £450 a head to the coach/tour operator. Assuming they've paid full retail price for everything (the park admissions, premier inn with evening meal and breakfast, and splash landings hotel), by my reckoning that would leave the coach company with about £15,000 to cover the transport costs, with the rest being their profit. However, I expect a tour operator is going to get a decent discount on park admissions and accommodation when they're booking for 80 people

77 kids but only 3 teachers going? That doesn't sound right. Isn't the ratio something like 1 teacher per 8 pupils for overnight trips ?

That's also going to be one massive coach, must be a double deck jobby.

Half a day in a theme park doesn't seem worth it. If it's busy the queues could mean they get to do as little as 2 rides.

[Drawweight]

E-bmw said:

mjb1 said:

Ultimately, I don't much care what the coach driver is doing for the rest of his 21 day pattern - that's for his employer to work out. If he needs rest days in between trips then that's just part of the overhead they should be factoring in. So far people have pointed out the extra things I wasn't aware of (part of my reason for asking), but no one appears to be saying that when taking those into account it would exceed the hours?

Way to go! I wonder how you would feel if you were the driver on the job?

He’s a bus driver, his job is to drive the bus to the schedule that his employer gives him.

I’m sure we’d all love to pick and choose the hours and jobs we do but that’s not how being an employee works.

[andburg]

said:

Mon day time drive to Alton Towers - 9am start, 275 miles, estimated arrival at Alton Towers hotel 4pm.
Tues Depart Alton Towers - 2pm, 160 miles to hotel near Thorpe Park.
Weds 10am - approx 5 miles from hotel to Thorpe Park.
Weds 4pm - depart Thorpe Park to drive home, 225 miles, 4.5hrs estimated.

Looks like this is based around sitting the kids down for their evening meal about 6pm at the hotel where its already paid for and arranged. To give the kids a full day at alton towers they'd really need to sort out an evening meal along the way. Problem is giving the kids an extra 2 hours park time plus an hour mid journey extends the driver's day and he needs an 11 hour rest period overnight. A bit of traffic and its entirely feasible that means pushing back his start time the next day and getting less time at thorpe park.

Assuming an extra hour each a day for the coach driver to do his safety checks, bring the coach round for loading, clean up the coach, park it etc... I don't really see much opportunity to extend the time in the parks. The only thing i would have suggested would have been perhaps a cold buffet/picnic back at the coach at alton towers. They could leave the park later, have the buffet and aim to arrive at the second hotel for more like 9pm. this is exactly what we did at Ascot this year, everybody just took a folding chair on the coach but there were 38 adults on board not 77 children.

Edited by andburg on Tuesday 2nd July 09:24

[Southerner]

OP, how invested is your kid in going on this trip? Yes it sounds expensive, and aside from changing the inventory you say they’ve moved the goalposts regarding food as well? Also, when are they going? Are we talking a weekend immediately after the end of term? Both parks will be absolutely rammed in that case, I’m familiar with both places and there is categorically no way I’d go to Alton Towers for a miserable four hours in peak times; they’ll be lucky to get on more than about two or three rides if the queues are maxed out.

It’s a poorly organised trip, why try and squeeze in two parks hundreds of miles apart when they could have just overnighted at Alton and had two days there; I’d be inclined to ask for your deposit back on the grounds that they’ve changed what you’re paying them for. I appreciate though that your offspring may feel differently!

[FiF]

Just to continue the alternative view, I'd be tempted to sack off this trip, and spend the same money on taking the kid(s) to Alton or wherever of choice together with 2 or 3 of their proper friends from school or wherever.

[Vasco]

FiF said:

Just to continue the alternative view, I'd be tempted to sack off this trip, and spend the same money on taking the kid(s) to Alton or wherever of choice together with 2 or 3 of their proper friends from school or wherever.

Agreed.
.

[rallycross]

Just to add Thorpe Park in summer = nothing but hours and hours of queues for almost every ride (apart from the ones where you get soaked), leaving early not a good plan.