Police run over calf - reasonable?

[Robertb]

A friend makes a living from ‘wildlife management’ and would have dealt with this easily and humanely with a dart gun. He often does work with the police.

[Patio]

and31 said:

FMOB said:

Well I hope the cow is okay.

Lots of outrage on this thread but the Police are in a no-win situation, the cow was chasing after people in the BBC video. No idea if that is a curious friendly chase or a 'if I am going to end up as burgers I am not going alone' chase.

I think the risk of a 300kg cow injuring someone in that situation is quite high whether by direct contact or getting into a more serious collision.

Just a thought but not seeing any outrage for the pigs down in Wiltshire which received much much worse treatment than this particular cow received.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c2qql6wn206o

This thread is just an excuse for a bit of faux outrage and Police bashing.

If it was some nutter with a knife they wouldn’t have rammed him with the car a couple of times….

This.....

Or a shoplifter, just stop oil etc

[Tenacious]

Nibbles_bits said:

Tenacious said:

Nibbles_bits said:

Tenacious said:

"over a number of hours..."

Plenty of time to get a vet there then with a dart and sedate it.

And yet.......no vet???

Indeed. Why didn't they call one? Living my life with a small holding background for 46 years, they are always plenty on call 24/7.

Did they not call one?
Inside knowledge. What else do ya know?

Because if they only called one and they never arrived, they should have called others until one did.

Please let me know which one they did call.

You do realise what you're doing works both ways and you're really not that clever in smug towers.

[Heathwood]

Robertb said:

A friend makes a living from ‘wildlife management’ and would have dealt with this easily and humanely with a dart gun. He often does work with the police.

Interesting. I’m surprised you’re allowed to tranquilliser a copper.

[texaxile]

Heathwood said:

Interesting. I’m surprised you’re allowed to tranquilliser a copper.

I think demand outstrips supply.

[Ridgemont]

MrBogSmith said:

Tenacious said:

Because if they only called one and they never arrived, they should have called others until one did.

Unless the risk was sufficient to justify not waiting etc.

Who knows? We don’t, so it’s a good thing the IOPC are looking into it.

I’d wait for their concision before too much beef with the police!

I’ll speculate some recommendations to firm up third party assistance for this for this sort of thing will be forthcoming.

ISWYDT.

Anyhow. The inevitable investigation will out some truths. As a country boy I get that a large lumbering calf may bemuse some of our more metropolitan cousins, but there are literally millions of these animals wandering around and not causing trouble, and if they are they don’t receive the pointy end of a bloody Volvo.

As was noted it’s not bloody Godzilla. I struggle to see how a police ram is the most effective means of control. It looks like sheer idiocy as there should have been multiple options at hand, not least contacting the farm, reaching out to equipped vets or finally maybe, as per a point a few pages back, just, I don’t know, roadblocking it in until it calmed down.

Seems like morons needed to be seen doing, well, moronic things. Don’t have much time for Packham but this time I tend to agree with him. Utterly ridiculous way to deal with a livestock situation.

I look forward to a similar approach next time some drug dealers in ‘urban Surrey’ get a bit frisky.

[The Gauge]

TwigtheWonderkid said:

I'm from London, and wouldn't have a clue how to deal with a runaway cow. It's in a built up area, so, whilst knowing nothing about cows, would imagine it could be quite a dangerous situation. How would a human fare being run into by a frightened and panicking cow? The actual job of the police is protection of the public, not animal welfare.

Maybe questions need to be asked of the owner of the cow. How was it allowed to get free?

I'm sure if, 10 minutes later, the cow ran into someone and killed them, people would be saying "why didn't they run it over with a car when they had a chance, it's only a bloody cow?"

One of the few sensible posts in they thread. Some of the rest are knee jerk emotional reactions of people who aren't aware of the full circumstances and haven't actually got a clue what might have happened earlier on in the incident, and the perceived risk to the public.

Yes, just watching the short video it does looks barbaric, but when put into context it might have been the last and only option available for the police. The cries of 'why didn't they get a vet' could be unfounded if the control room had tried contacting every suitable vet on their call out list and had no success, or non of them could get to the scene within time before the cow potentially harmed someone, and I'm sure not every vet carries a tranquilliser gun!.

Maybe the control room FIM had explored every option available to them and the only reasonable option available to protect human life was to task the officer to use their vehicle to maximise public safety, and the cop was simply following instruction? After all, one of the top priorities in any police incident is to maximise the safety of the public whilst minimising the risk to officers.

Note the difference between maximising public safety and minimising risk to officer safety. That translates as officers potentially putting themselves at risk to help the public, but in this case they minimised the risk of harm to the officer by using their vehicle. If all other options had been explored and negated, what else could they do?

Edited by The Gauge on Sunday 16th June 00:48

[The Gauge]

Robertb said:

A friend makes a living from ‘wildlife management’ and would have dealt with this easily and humanely with a dart gun. He often does work with the police.

Does he reside in that force area, and is he on their call out list of approved contractors for destroying dangerous animals? I doubt it. The police cant just ring anyone to shoot an animal.

[Ridgemont]

The Gauge said:

TwigtheWonderkid said:

I'm from London, and wouldn't have a clue how to deal with a runaway cow. It's in a built up area, so, whilst knowing nothing about cows, would imagine it could be quite a dangerous situation. How would a human fare being run into by a frightened and panicking cow? The actual job of the police is protection of the public, not animal welfare.

Maybe questions need to be asked of the owner of the cow. How was it allowed to get free?

I'm sure if, 10 minutes later, the cow ran into someone and killed them, people would be saying "why didn't they run it over with a car when they had a chance, it's only a bloody cow?"

One of the few sensible posts in they thread. Some of the rest are knee jerk emotional reactions of people who aren't aware of the full circumstances and haven't actually got a clue what might have happened earlier on in the incident, and the perceived risk to the public.

Yes, just watching the short video it does looks barbaric, but when put into context it might have been the last and only option available for the police. The cries of 'why didn't they get a vet' could be unfounded if the control room had tried contacting every suitable vet on their call out list and had no success, or non of them could get to the scene within time before the cow potentially harmed someone, and I'm sure not every vet carries a tranquilliser gun!.

Maybe the control room FIM had explored every option available to them and the only reasonable option available to protect human life was to task the officer to use their vehicle to maximise public safety, and the cop was simply following instruction? After all, one of the top priorities in any police incident is to maximise the safety of the public whilst minimising the risk to officers.

Note the difference between maximising public safety and minimising risk to officer safety. That translates as officers potentially putting themselves at risk to help the public, but in this case they minimised the risk of harm to the officer by using their vehicle. If all other options had been explored and negated, what else could they do?

Edited by The Gauge on Sunday 16th June 00:48

It’s a distressed calf. It could quite easily been handled by people who knew what they were doing instead of by, what is clear from this thread, people who have no idea of how livestock behave.

Tell you what, place me in the situation of handling a drugs raid. I can almost guarantee

1) it wouldn’t go well
2) it would look hilariously inept from a third person point of view.

I fail to see how ‘this’ situation would have been handled worse by people who might know how to handle cattle. Or give advice.

But hey ho. We’ll see the outcome of the investigation, but it looks like a catastrophic break down of, I don’t know, any idea of how to handle livestock and a stupid plan hatched off the back of it.

‘We need to hit it hard enough to incapacitate it’.

Righty ho. Sounds very Gene Hunt.

[dickymint]

The Gauge said:

Robertb said:

A friend makes a living from ‘wildlife management’ and would have dealt with this easily and humanely with a dart gun. He often does work with the police.

Does he reside in that force area, and is he on their call out list of approved contractors for destroying dangerous animals? I doubt it. The police cant just ring anyone to shoot an animal.

Well it seems they can for dogs And who said anybody wanted it "destroyed"

[dickymint]

Ridgemont said:

The Gauge said:

TwigtheWonderkid said:

I'm from London, and wouldn't have a clue how to deal with a runaway cow. It's in a built up area, so, whilst knowing nothing about cows, would imagine it could be quite a dangerous situation. How would a human fare being run into by a frightened and panicking cow? The actual job of the police is protection of the public, not animal welfare.

Maybe questions need to be asked of the owner of the cow. How was it allowed to get free?

I'm sure if, 10 minutes later, the cow ran into someone and killed them, people would be saying "why didn't they run it over with a car when they had a chance, it's only a bloody cow?"

One of the few sensible posts in they thread. Some of the rest are knee jerk emotional reactions of people who aren't aware of the full circumstances and haven't actually got a clue what might have happened earlier on in the incident, and the perceived risk to the public.

Yes, just watching the short video it does looks barbaric, but when put into context it might have been the last and only option available for the police. The cries of 'why didn't they get a vet' could be unfounded if the control room had tried contacting every suitable vet on their call out list and had no success, or non of them could get to the scene within time before the cow potentially harmed someone, and I'm sure not every vet carries a tranquilliser gun!.

Maybe the control room FIM had explored every option available to them and the only reasonable option available to protect human life was to task the officer to use their vehicle to maximise public safety, and the cop was simply following instruction? After all, one of the top priorities in any police incident is to maximise the safety of the public whilst minimising the risk to officers.

Note the difference between maximising public safety and minimising risk to officer safety. That translates as officers potentially putting themselves at risk to help the public, but in this case they minimised the risk of harm to the officer by using their vehicle. If all other options had been explored and negated, what else could they do?

Edited by The Gauge on Sunday 16th June 00:48

It’s a distressed calf. It could quite easily been handled by people who knew what they were doing instead of by, what is clear from this thread, people who have no idea of how livestock behave.

Tell you what, place me in the situation of handling a drugs raid. I can almost guarantee

1) it wouldn’t go well
2) it would look hilariously inept from a third person point of view.

I fail to see how ‘this’ situation would have been handled worse by people who might know how to handle cattle. Or give advice.

But hey ho. We’ll see the outcome of the investigation, but it looks like a catastrophic break down of, I don’t know, any idea of how to handle livestock and a stupid plan hatched off the back of it.

‘We need to hit it hard enough to incapacitate it’.

Righty ho. Sounds very Gene Hunt.

There is no way Gene Hunt would have fired up his Quattro to take out a lost cow

[Ridgemont]

dickymint said:

There is no way Gene Hunt would have fired up his Quattro to take out a lost cow

And amazingly the met did. Genius.
But at least it’s a Volvo. Some justice.

[Flumpo]

There was no fking Volvo involved in the running over of this horse.

[dickymint]

Flumpo said:

There was no fking Volvo involved in the running over of this horse.

Anyway - They shooot horses don't? they they sh........

[fttm]

Sad reflection on broken Britain when a loose cow and calf cause mayhem , really viscous animals that'll rip your face off with their teeth while shredding the skin from your body with their razor sharp hooves , dangerous animals that are well known for their quick reactions and agility . How the hell do you survive over there ?

[Oliver Hardy]

this is a link that was posted in politics

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cnkkp7eejyqo

From the BBC story

The force said in a statement that after attempts to safely capture the cow “over a period of a number of hours” failed, “the decision was made to stop it using a police car”.

They couldn't find anyone to deal with it or a vet to tranquilize it ?

[ChocolateFrog]

Story seems to be gathering momentum in the news. Home Secretary now involved.

[Hugo Stiglitz]

Nibbles_bits said:

dickymint said:

I've no real position on this other than I know other options are/were available rather than a gung-ho approach that seems to be taken. People say 'London' as though it was in Knightsbridge during rush hour.

We'll see what comes of it.

Ah yes. And despite the situation ongoing for several hours, the Police didn't think of these other options

They would have tried all options. If I'm setting off to work on my motorbike and I came across the animal I'd have been asking why wasn't it stopped. By any means.

[croyde]

A mate of mine had his car written off when he hit a badger at night so I'm amazed that the front of that cop car looks completely undamaged.

I used to work on a dairy farm and young cows can be pretty dangerous. I had a few battle scars.

[P0PC0RN]

Doesn't look great.... however....

I have dealt with a number of fatal and serious injury road traffic collisions which have been caused by cows/wondering farm animals.

Cows are big and heavy (even young ones) and this one has apparently damaged cars and charged at members of the public suggesting that it's not just been trotting around the local area. It is therefore possing a risk to the public, the public whom the Police are paid to protect.

The incident has been ongoing for a number of hours looking at the press release's which would suggest the police were unable to get hold of a farmer, vet with a dart gun, ARV with a real gun etc.

If the Police left the cow to its own devices and it ran into a group of kids killing a few of them Pistonheads would all be up in arms demanding why the police didn't deal with the cow proactively hours before.

If the cow walked onto the local 'big road' and took up residence resulting in the Police closing the road for hours waiting for the cow to be dealt with in a Chris Packham approved fashion Pistonheads would again be up in arms.

Seems abit like the police were damned of they do damned of they don't?