Speed limiters from July 7 2024 on all new cars

[964Cup]

Evanivitch said:

So why is your data all over the Internet? Name, employment, date of birth, home address?

Not a hermit. Also not a secret agent. Fairly public role in a global company and on numerous boards - it's my job to be professionally visible. But Facebook doesn't know who my friends are, or my hobbies, or my movements and can't sell that data to anyone, and nor can Google, or Apple. Palantir doesn't know my politics and (hopefully) doesn't have my health data. I don't appear in the government's convenient centralised database of ethnicities.

I don't mind you lot knowing a fair bit about me - see above re: not a hermit. I do object to the government or people with access to large databases and an agenda having the ability to surveil my private life, though. The point of privacy is to have control over what you share with whom; it's not inherently to share nothing with anyone.

[biggbn]

964Cup said:

Evanivitch said:

So why is your data all over the Internet? Name, employment, date of birth, home address?

Not a hermit. Also not a secret agent. Fairly public role in a global company and on numerous boards - it's my job to be professionally visible. But Facebook doesn't know who my friends are, or my hobbies, or my movements and can't sell that data to anyone, and nor can Google, or Apple. Palantir doesn't know my politics and (hopefully) doesn't have my health data. I don't appear in the government's convenient centralised database of ethnicities.

I don't mind you lot knowing a fair bit about me - see above re: not a hermit. I do object to the government or people with access to large databases and an agenda having the ability to surveil my private life, though. The point of privacy is to have control over what you share with whom; it's not inherently to share nothing with anyone.

But if you share on a public forum, surely you are sharing with everyone including the government, you have no control over who you are sharing these posts with...?

[964Cup]

Evanivitch said:

Yet you share it with this forum, your socials and unnecessarily with publicly shared records...

Don't have any personal socials. This forum is not directly linked to my public identity. Although it's not hard for a person to work out, that's not how big data works. I don't conceal my home address at CH because it serves little real purpose if you are also a visible figure - finding home addresses isn't that hard. Yes, that means I will be targeted with a certain amount of marketing, but it's tied to my professional life - about which I am hardly shy - not my personal one.

What you will find is that there are no candid selfies of me anywhere (although the internet is, sadly, awash with pictures of me at conferences and the like, for which I apologise), that I have never posted pictures of my family or named them (although of course some can also be identified through CH) and that there is very little publicly available information about my private life to be found by googling my name (tediously some non-profit NED roles require a hideous mini-bio, but that's not big data either).

From PH I think you can work out:

• Some of the cars, watches (and, I think, bicycles) I own (and in some cases, have owned), and what that's been like. Yes, I am conscious of some risk here. See "not a hermit" and "publicly visible anyway"
• Vast amounts of extraneous detail about some medical conditions - but not in a form that helps Meta sell me to advertisers or Experian "enrich" my profile - usually posted with a view to helping others going through the same thing, and therefore by no means a complete list
• A very great deal about how I feel concerning government, politics and world affairs - or at least what I say about that on here
• Very occasionally somewhere I am planning to go if there is a chance other PHers might be there too (or have been if someone is asking for advice, or in the case of the MTC I thought it would be interesting - you will note from that post there is no picture of the awards hall because the only picture I had of that included my other half)
• ISTR also posting about some sci-fi books I have read
• Allusions to my income and how much tax I pay (although that's mostly back to how I feel about government)
• Opinions related to my job - but there really is no shortage of that on the public internet if you feel the need. I apologise again.

But to work all that out you have to read and analyse all of my posts. An LLM could do that (although it would be a difficult piece of processing to justify) but I'm not sure it would add enough value to bother.

You will however find that this forum doesn't otherwise know when I go on holiday, or where, or what I had for dinner last night, or what I bought on Amazon yesterday (my use of Amazon is probably my biggest actual privacy weakness; I really should stop), or who my friends are and when I last spoke to them, or my sexuality or ethnicity, or how much I actually earned last year, or where I live, or how I spent last night, or my taste in art, music, literature (apart from sci-fi), film, TV, or how I voted in the last elections or will vote in the next one, or my preferences in clothes or furniture or any other consumer product and so on. This is what you share when you use social media or use social log-ins - your movements of course also being the original topic of this thread since tracking is the only way to do full road pricing - and this is what the owners of those social platforms both monetise and use to manipulate you. It's also what government will increasingly use to "nudge" you and to pursue you when the nudging stops working or the tax revenues fall. Or worse, if a Corbyn or an Orban ever gets power.

TL;DR? I'm not trying to hide from you lot. I'm trying to minimise my structured big data footprint out of concern about corporate and governmental abuses of power.

[964Cup]

Evanivitch said:

But I literally know your name, have a photo, know your home address and your family acquaintances. And that's just a few clicks. There are countless bots that can skim that data from LinkedIn and Companies House and create a fake.identify of yours, possibly to your financial loss. Through PH they will also know your personal interests, which makes phishing and fraud more possible.

Please, fix your PH profile and companies house, it makes everyone's life better.

We're overlapping posts. But I'm not trying to hide from you. I've never been concerned about my address being at CH - it's in far too many other places outside my control to be worth trying to redact that now (and of course there's the Wayback machine - and I go way back at CH and elsewhere). I think bot-phishing me through PH is far-fetched, and personally spearphishing me, while possible, seems unlikely. Being visible on LI is literally my job, but you will note that I don't do the LI is Facebook thing.

I worry more that I can't stop members of my family using social media; that seems to me a much worse exposure. But I'm not a secret agent, remember.

[964Cup]

Evanivitch said:

Your name and one of your businesses are on your PH profile page. It was easy from there.

And so I know your home.address and your watch collection...

I know. I acknowledged that risk earlier. Of course that assumes that the address is the one where I keep the watches. We're looking at different concerns - you're thinking about a bad actor (probably human) targeting me for fraud or actual physical interference. You're not wrong, but my concern as shared in this thread is to do with data risks - starting with corporate exploitation and culminating in exterminatory persecution by government. I care more about that - partly because it's pretty difficult to insure against.

Yes, I could redact my PH profile. Which works until I go to a PH event and actually meet people. But FFS I drive a McLaren and actually wear the watches - if someone's going to pick me out as a target, that's how it'll happen, not through amateur sleuthing on here. I could hide even more on the internet, but that only works until I go out of my front door.

[DodgyGeezer]

biggbn said:

DodgyGeezer said:

The Selfish Gene said:

the good news about these crappy speed limiters are it's prompted me to go and buy an older manual, two seater that I can rag around for the sts and giggles forever hopefully if I can keep it running.

Doing my bit for the environment

Plan will be to keep it amazingly used and mechanically looked after so my son can have it when he is older enough to drive in 15 years

just waiting for the eco-mentalists in the next government to scupper your plans by outlawing any car over 2litres on the basis that no-one needs something that big...

As opposed to the 'eco-mentalists' who have been in charge for the last 14 years and overseen all of the 'eco-mentalism'?

nah - the current lot are 'just' mentalists, the next lot will be a bunch of vindictive mentalists with a distinct green bent (I know, tinfoil hat )

[FiF]

The thing that I don't quite get about all the driver aids and restrictions kit that's been forced on manufacturers and therefore drivers, not just the 'intelligent ' (lol) speed assist but all the other stuff is that manufacturers must know that some of it's just not good enough, and in some cases arguably increases risk. At best it annoys people. They must know this.* See below.

So in their shoes what to do other than continue to work to make it better? Well my suggestion is to make it easier for drivers to set the vehicle up to a configuration that suits them, save it, and then when everything is enabled on next start up quickly and easily enable their desired configuration. Renault nice one. Even better with physical accessible buttons to turn on /off specifics, eg Lane assist on for motorway, switch off elsewhere as one random example.

And as for the example of automatic cruise control not being able to be used as 'normal' cruise control just wtf.

• *Maybe some really don't know. Maybe their development bods drive on big wide straight roads with no roundabouts or no twisty narrow country lanes. Anyone like Tesla who can eliminate column stalks and put the indicator controls as buttons on the steering wheel spoke clearly never driven round a roundabout. Useless tts not interested in driving properly. FRO and then FO over the horizon.

[Debaser]

FiF said:

The thing that I don't quite get about all the driver aids and restrictions kit that's been forced on manufacturers and therefore drivers, not just the 'intelligent ' (lol) speed assist but all the other stuff is that manufacturers must know that some of it's just not good enough, and in some cases arguably increases risk. At best it annoys people. They must know this.* See below.

So in their shoes what to do other than continue to work to make it better? Well my suggestion is to make it easier for drivers to set the vehicle up to a configuration that suits them, save it, and then when everything is enabled on next start up quickly and easily enable their desired configuration. Renault nice one. Even better with physical accessible buttons to turn on /off specifics, eg Lane assist on for motorway, switch off elsewhere as one random example.

And as for the example of automatic cruise control not being able to be used as 'normal' cruise control just wtf.

• *Maybe some really don't know. Maybe their development bods drive on big wide straight roads with no roundabouts or no twisty narrow country lanes. Anyone like Tesla who can eliminate column stalks and put the indicator controls as buttons on the steering wheel spoke clearly never driven round a roundabout. Useless tts not interested in driving properly. FRO and then FO over the horizon.

Manufacturers know the systems aren't ready for customers to use, however they are mandatory. They also can't make them easy to switch off, or remain off when you start the car. The latest legislation requires them to be on every time you start the car, and be unnecessarily difficult to switch off.

Manufacturers know some customers will hate their new cars because of this, but there's no alternative unless the legislation changes.


The tech isn't ready to be used but is mandatory, and must be implemented in a way that will annoy customers, which is ridiculous.

[Tycho]

FiF said:

So in their shoes what to do other than continue to work to make it better? Well my suggestion is to make it easier for drivers to set the vehicle up to a configuration that suits them, save it, and then when everything is enabled on next start up quickly and easily enable their desired configuration.

This is one thing that Tesla have done right. The mirrors, seat, preferences for acceleration type and all the rest are in my profile even remembering my lane assist preference vs the OH. I can go into a different car, log in and they all transfer over which is brilliant. Your point about having different settings for the type of road should be implemented IMO as the auto cancel indicator works well on the motorway but is useless on normal roads in my car.

[RSTurboPaul]

964Cup said:

Evanivitch said:

So why is your data all over the Internet? Name, employment, date of birth, home address?

Not a hermit. Also not a secret agent. Fairly public role in a global company and on numerous boards - it's my job to be professionally visible. But Facebook doesn't know who my friends are, or my hobbies, or my movements and can't sell that data to anyone, and nor can Google, or Apple. Palantir doesn't know my politics and (hopefully) doesn't have my health data. I don't appear in the government's convenient centralised database of ethnicities.

I don't mind you lot knowing a fair bit about me - see above re: not a hermit. I do object to the government or people with access to large databases and an agenda having the ability to surveil my private life, though. The point of privacy is to have control over what you share with whom; it's not inherently to share nothing with anyone.

They may well have your health data:

https://news.sky.com/story/nhs-facing-legal-challe...

Sky said:

... Palantir, which has become notorious for its close ties to security services and immigration agencies in the United States, secured its first ever deal to handle NHS data in March last year [2020] for the nominal sum of £1 ... which was extended in December 2020 and is now worth £23.5m. ...

It was challenged in the courts by Open Democracy, who appear to have won, but I'm not sure what (if anything) has happened since:

https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/ournhs/weve-won-o...

[964Cup]

RSTurboPaul said:

It was challenged in the courts by Open Democracy, who appear to have won, but I'm not sure what (if anything) has happened since:

https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/ournhs/weve-won-o...

This, along with the original plan to "slurp" GP data into a central repository and then hand it to Thiel's dark minions, was arguably the ICO's greatest failure in a long history of entirely failing to meet its brief. My "hopefully" reflected a fairly energetic effort at the time to enforce my opt-out rights including extended correspondence with the relevant DPOs.

[RSTurboPaul]

964Cup said:

RSTurboPaul said:

It was challenged in the courts by Open Democracy, who appear to have won, but I'm not sure what (if anything) has happened since:

https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/ournhs/weve-won-o...

This, along with the original plan to "slurp" GP data into a central repository and then hand it to Thiel's dark minions, was arguably the ICO's greatest failure in a long history of entirely failing to meet its brief. My "hopefully" reflected a fairly energetic effort at the time to enforce my opt-out rights including extended correspondence with the relevant DPOs.

I recall the proposed harvesting of comprehensive data on individuals for use in a centralised system was not very well publicised by those intending to do it... which was naturally completely surprising.

IIRC it was pulled near the proposed cut-off date?

When CBDCs are rolled out and we 'have' to have a digital ID on a 'smart' phone, which will link with all your data, including your health data as already seen with 'vaccine passports', the potential power of the state over the individual will be that only previously fantasised about by those who seek out such things. (I am looking at you, Bliar.)

But, you know... 'nothing to hide, nothing to fear'...

[RDMcG]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/money/cars/article-135...


Well, I have a bad feeling that this will show up everywhere. California is proposing something similar and I expect it will be installed by default. Also the insurance companies are likely to hike premiums on "free" cars I imagine.

There is for instance a speed limit on the Nürburgring in one section though generally ignored. Just waiting for some new car to screech to 60km/h during Touristenfahrten.....................

[Terminator X]

As I've said before I won't buy any car with it installed. Hopefully demand collapses for all this nonsense that no one needs.

TX.

[DodgyGeezer]

Terminator X said:

As I've said before I won't buy any car with it installed. Hopefully demand collapses for all this nonsense that no one needs.

TX.

that'll play into the hands of those who would love to see none of us driving we're fooked either way

[The Selfish Gene]

nobody is going to buy that st

[SkodaIan]

I'm yet to drive anything with active speed limiters, but as with the lane assist and the other nannying systems, how bad it is I suspect will depend on the implementation.

I've driven some cars with the full suite of that stuff and didn't even realise it was fitted, as they never did an incorrect intervention. By contrast, if you leave the "driver assist" functions switched on in my wife's car, it's done two emergency stops before I get to the bottom of the drive due to suicidal foliage and then the lane assist gives me a full upper body workout fighting against me driving the next 3-4 miles down the local B-road before I reach the motorway. And that's before the continuous bongs, flashing red symbols on the dashboard and helpful messages like "drive in the centre of the lane" when I already am.

If implemented right, as a very subtle dead spot in throttle response at the speed limit, it could be useful in the fight against the incompetents who can't drive at a constant speed, and in the overall scheme of things not that intrusive. However, I suspect in most cases it will be implemented badly, either getting the speed limit wrong, or causing a similar response to driving into a brick wall.

[blank]

I don't think any vehicles have the actual limiter yet, just the warning.

My wife's car seems to have it although I'm not 100% sure if it's fully compliant to the regulation as I've never noticed audible or haptic warnings. It's not really annoying at all and just flashes the speed limit sign if you exceed it.

One issue is it puts NSL slip roads as 60mph rather than 70mph.

[ITP]

I would suggest anyone buying a new car after this week, therefore with the ISA system fitted, goes for a long test drive on various roads, town, b roads etc. and leave all the cr@p turned on.

You will then know if you could actually live with all the bongs and electronic interference of your steering, brakes and throttle.
Because there is a real possibility that in the near future, not this year or next, but maybe 2026/7 (as the data collection assessment date is dec 25) the ability to turn off the ‘safety’ features, ISA, lane assist, emergency braking, cornering assist etc. may be removed from the car’s system. This could just happen as an ‘over the air’ update, then you are stuck with it all on for good, with no option to turn off.
When buying your new car you will probably have accepted this as an option that may happen in the small print, so won’t be able to stop it, or ask to have any ‘system update’ reversed.