How do people downshift for more power without rev-matching?
Discussion
Lester H said:
You are right, of course. But a sympathetic driver, even when in a hurry will also up the revs to assist the synchro and increase the life of the gearbox. It used to be called car sympathy.
We were also once supposed to use engine braking to be sympathetic to the brakes. Time moves on, things change, and there’s no need to rev match when dropping from fourth to third in a 2024 Yaris.Anyway, to answer the question.
In two of my cars I pull the left-hand paddle and the car simultaneously disengaged the clutch on 4th and engages it on 3rd. In one it slurs the change via a torque converter.
In one car it blips the throttle for me to match revs, and the other has no gears.
In two of my cars I pull the left-hand paddle and the car simultaneously disengaged the clutch on 4th and engages it on 3rd. In one it slurs the change via a torque converter.
In one car it blips the throttle for me to match revs, and the other has no gears.
popeyewhite said:
You don't need to rev match, and if you did in the situation you describe you probably still wouldn't be in the powerband.
This. As far as I can work out, rev matching whilst accelerating just means keeping the throttle open when changing gear. Any sympathetic advantage this gives your gearbox will be conteracted by the additional wear on the clutch.If the proposal is to drop into neutral, then blip the accelerator, then select the lower gear, then you've gained nothing in terms of acceleration. Whether you're on a hill or trying to overtake, you'll have lost a lot of momentum.
DarkVeil said:
Oh okay. I thought you meant be on throttle as soon as the clutch is fully engaged, but now I understand that you mean to apply throttle input while lifting the clutch.
This is exactly what you do when pulling away i.e. going from neutral to 1st gear otherwise you’ll kangaroo away! You feed in the throttle to match whatever RPM you want to be at.
Doofus said:
This. As far as I can work out, rev matching whilst accelerating just means keeping the throttle open when changing gear. Any sympathetic advantage this gives your gearbox will be conteracted by the additional wear on the clutch.
If the proposal is to drop into neutral, then blip the accelerator, then select the lower gear, then you've gained nothing in terms of acceleration. Whether you're on a hill or trying to overtake, you'll have lost a lot of momentum.
How is there additional wear on the clutch when it is done while the clutch is disengaged?If the proposal is to drop into neutral, then blip the accelerator, then select the lower gear, then you've gained nothing in terms of acceleration. Whether you're on a hill or trying to overtake, you'll have lost a lot of momentum.
I'm not talking about double-clutching.
Imagine you are in 4th but want to drop into 3rd to overtake, I would blip throttle while the clutch is depressed, so the clutch can be released quickly and smoothly. Without blipping the throttle, the clutch has to be released much more slowly since it needs to match engine speed to wheel speed.
DarkVeil said:
Doofus said:
This. As far as I can work out, rev matching whilst accelerating just means keeping the throttle open when changing gear. Any sympathetic advantage this gives your gearbox will be conteracted by the additional wear on the clutch.
If the proposal is to drop into neutral, then blip the accelerator, then select the lower gear, then you've gained nothing in terms of acceleration. Whether you're on a hill or trying to overtake, you'll have lost a lot of momentum.
How is there additional wear on the clutch when it is done while the clutch is disengaged?If the proposal is to drop into neutral, then blip the accelerator, then select the lower gear, then you've gained nothing in terms of acceleration. Whether you're on a hill or trying to overtake, you'll have lost a lot of momentum.
not talking about double-clutching.
Imagine you are in 4th but want to drop into 3rd to overtake, I would blip throttle while the clutch is depressed, so the clutch can be released quickly and smoothly. Without blipping the throttle, the clutch has to be released much more slowly since it needs to match engine speed to wheel speed.
It's already been asked, but have you ever tried changing down, under acceleration, using both your method and the normal one?
Rev matching when slowing down avoids jerkiness from engine braking. Rev matching when accelerating makes no sense. That's what a gearbox is for.
Doofus said:
DarkVeil said:
Doofus said:
This. As far as I can work out, rev matching whilst accelerating just means keeping the throttle open when changing gear. Any sympathetic advantage this gives your gearbox will be conteracted by the additional wear on the clutch.
If the proposal is to drop into neutral, then blip the accelerator, then select the lower gear, then you've gained nothing in terms of acceleration. Whether you're on a hill or trying to overtake, you'll have lost a lot of momentum.
How is there additional wear on the clutch when it is done while the clutch is disengaged?If the proposal is to drop into neutral, then blip the accelerator, then select the lower gear, then you've gained nothing in terms of acceleration. Whether you're on a hill or trying to overtake, you'll have lost a lot of momentum.
not talking about double-clutching.
Imagine you are in 4th but want to drop into 3rd to overtake, I would blip throttle while the clutch is depressed, so the clutch can be released quickly and smoothly. Without blipping the throttle, the clutch has to be released much more slowly since it needs to match engine speed to wheel speed.
It's already been asked, but have you ever tried changing down, under acceleration, using both your method and the normal one?
Rev matching when slowing down avoids jerkiness from engine braking. Rev matching when accelerating makes no sense. That's what a gearbox is for.
DarkVeil said:
Doofus said:
DarkVeil said:
Doofus said:
This. As far as I can work out, rev matching whilst accelerating just means keeping the throttle open when changing gear. Any sympathetic advantage this gives your gearbox will be conteracted by the additional wear on the clutch.
If the proposal is to drop into neutral, then blip the accelerator, then select the lower gear, then you've gained nothing in terms of acceleration. Whether you're on a hill or trying to overtake, you'll have lost a lot of momentum.
How is there additional wear on the clutch when it is done while the clutch is disengaged?If the proposal is to drop into neutral, then blip the accelerator, then select the lower gear, then you've gained nothing in terms of acceleration. Whether you're on a hill or trying to overtake, you'll have lost a lot of momentum.
not talking about double-clutching.
Imagine you are in 4th but want to drop into 3rd to overtake, I would blip throttle while the clutch is depressed, so the clutch can be released quickly and smoothly. Without blipping the throttle, the clutch has to be released much more slowly since it needs to match engine speed to wheel speed.
It's already been asked, but have you ever tried changing down, under acceleration, using both your method and the normal one?
Rev matching when slowing down avoids jerkiness from engine braking. Rev matching when accelerating makes no sense. That's what a gearbox is for.
Impressive.
DarkVeil said:
Watch Conquer Driving's video on YouTube about rev-matching, my method is the same as his. It's a far faster way of downshifting in preparation for a burst of acceleration since you can pretty much drop the clutch since the RPM is already at the right level for the new gear.
Yes you can do that but in the instance described by the OP in this thread it's not needed in the slightest.DarkVeil said:
Watch Conquer Driving's video on YouTube about rev-matching, my method is the same as his. It's a far faster way of downshifting in preparation for a burst of acceleration since you can pretty much drop the clutch since the RPM is already at the right level for the new gear.
Even if you are doing it perfectly, speed is irrelevant when you are “preparing for” acceleration.Some advanced driving lessons may help you to better anticipate which gear you need to be in to avoid the need for fast downshifts.
GeniusOfLove said:
People dump it into the lower gear, bring up the clutch, and let the road speed drag the engine speed up to the appropriate point, same as they do when decelerating
If you're relaly lucky they'll come on the throttle as they lift the clutch to sort of match. Only real powerfully built directors actually blip in the small period where the car is in neutral during your downshift.
This. I used to blip the throttle when braking but in a modern car it’s fairly unnecessary If you're relaly lucky they'll come on the throttle as they lift the clutch to sort of match. Only real powerfully built directors actually blip in the small period where the car is in neutral during your downshift.
popeyewhite said:
DarkVeil said:
Watch Conquer Driving's video on YouTube about rev-matching, my method is the same as his. It's a far faster way of downshifting in preparation for a burst of acceleration since you can pretty much drop the clutch since the RPM is already at the right level for the new gear.
Yes you can do that but in the instance described by the OP in this thread it's not needed in the slightest.DarkVeil said:
popeyewhite said:
DarkVeil said:
Watch Conquer Driving's video on YouTube about rev-matching, my method is the same as his. It's a far faster way of downshifting in preparation for a burst of acceleration since you can pretty much drop the clutch since the RPM is already at the right level for the new gear.
Yes you can do that but in the instance described by the OP in this thread it's not needed in the slightest.
OP What's your mechanical knowledge like?
Do you understand how the clutch, gearbox and differential all work together? I can't imagine you'd be asking these questions if you did, so maybe a youtube video would help you understand it.
I don't wish to be hostile at all, I just don't understand what you're trying to ask or achieve here. Plenty of people have explained how it works but you continue to question it. If you don't want to take anything we say on board, just continue driving the way you want to and ignore everyone else. You're really over-thinking it.
Do you understand how the clutch, gearbox and differential all work together? I can't imagine you'd be asking these questions if you did, so maybe a youtube video would help you understand it.
I don't wish to be hostile at all, I just don't understand what you're trying to ask or achieve here. Plenty of people have explained how it works but you continue to question it. If you don't want to take anything we say on board, just continue driving the way you want to and ignore everyone else. You're really over-thinking it.
Discendo Discimus said:
OP What's your mechanical knowledge like?
Do you understand how the clutch, gearbox and differential all work together? I can't imagine you'd be asking these questions if you did, so maybe a youtube video would help you understand it.
I don't wish to be hostile at all, I just don't understand what you're trying to ask or achieve here. Plenty of people have explained how it works but you continue to question it. If you don't want to take anything we say on board, just continue driving the way you want to and ignore everyone else. You're really over-thinking it.
I was just curious as to how other drivers usually downshift for more power.Do you understand how the clutch, gearbox and differential all work together? I can't imagine you'd be asking these questions if you did, so maybe a youtube video would help you understand it.
I don't wish to be hostile at all, I just don't understand what you're trying to ask or achieve here. Plenty of people have explained how it works but you continue to question it. If you don't want to take anything we say on board, just continue driving the way you want to and ignore everyone else. You're really over-thinking it.
My method was learnt from Conquer Driving's video on YouTube, he's a driving instructor but also a driving enthusiast as well. So I thought it was a pretty common technique amongst driving enthusiasts, but then when I posted here it seems that most people don't know what I am talking about which was unexpected, one person even thought I was referring to double clutching.
I have basic knowledge of how the clutch and gearbox work.
Here's the video in case you are interested: https://youtu.be/-RnPUq2yut4?si=tCqjG4UAET-Rj5Xw
DarkVeil said:
Discendo Discimus said:
OP What's your mechanical knowledge like?
Do you understand how the clutch, gearbox and differential all work together? I can't imagine you'd be asking these questions if you did, so maybe a youtube video would help you understand it.
I don't wish to be hostile at all, I just don't understand what you're trying to ask or achieve here. Plenty of people have explained how it works but you continue to question it. If you don't want to take anything we say on board, just continue driving the way you want to and ignore everyone else. You're really over-thinking it.
I was just curious as to how other drivers usually downshift for more power.Do you understand how the clutch, gearbox and differential all work together? I can't imagine you'd be asking these questions if you did, so maybe a youtube video would help you understand it.
I don't wish to be hostile at all, I just don't understand what you're trying to ask or achieve here. Plenty of people have explained how it works but you continue to question it. If you don't want to take anything we say on board, just continue driving the way you want to and ignore everyone else. You're really over-thinking it.
My method was learnt from Conquer Driving's video on YouTube, he's a driving instructor but also a driving enthusiast as well. So I thought it was a pretty common technique amongst driving enthusiasts, but then when I posted here it seems that most people don't know what I am talking about which was unexpected, one person even thought I was referring to double clutching.
I have basic knowledge of how the clutch and gearbox work.
Here's the video in case you are interested: https://youtu.be/-RnPUq2yut4?si=tCqjG4UAET-Rj5Xw
DarkVeil said:
one person even thought I was referring to double clutching.
You accused me of that, but I didn't think you were referring to double declutching; you just assumed I did.I do think it's all hooey though. The video you linked to demonstrates how to overcome a problem that only exists if you create it deliberately.
Doofus said:
DarkVeil said:
one person even thought I was referring to double clutching.
You accused me of that, but I didn't think you were referring to double declutching; you just assumed I did.I do think it's all hooey though. The video you linked to demonstrates how to overcome a problem that only exists if you create it deliberately.
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