What am I getting wrong about sports cars?
Discussion
Hoofy said:
turboLP said:
I started this thread just to see how my ideas about car enthusiast test in the real world. Thanks everyone for responding. This was enlightening.
As for car suggestions
this thread planted a 996 911 seed in my head.
To be honest, a 2+2 would be ideal for me, but the choice is probably even more limited there.
I don't know how deep a money pit a serious sports car such as Cayman or 996 could be.
One of the biggest concerns to me is ULEZ-compliability.
A later 996 will be ULEZ-compliant and £415 VED (dunno what the Cayman or Lotus VED is but the 370Z will be £715 IIRC).As for car suggestions
this thread planted a 996 911 seed in my head.
To be honest, a 2+2 would be ideal for me, but the choice is probably even more limited there.
I don't know how deep a money pit a serious sports car such as Cayman or 996 could be.
One of the biggest concerns to me is ULEZ-compliability.
As for buying a 996, if you get one that's had a Hartech rebuild (and check that the IMS has been uprated) plus has refreshed suspension, it will be good for years to come. Try a manual 996 for yourself and see what they're like. I think my 996 Turbo with standard suspension is too firm for British war-torn (
) roads. I'm forever darting left and right like I've had 3 too many.What you really want is a nice and simple 996. So that's 2wd, narrow body and none turbo. The earlier cars are better so the 3.4 litre. The very first 996 was the lightest water cooled car they ever made. They gradually got heavier. I [also] have a 1998 c2 coupe with no sunroof and no side airbags which is probably the lightest you can buy. The nerds get excited about cable throttle rather than fly by wire. This change happened around 1999 / 2000.
Also pre 2001 cars are only 345 road tax compared to 415.
You can get these reclassified as ULEZ if not already. I'm not 100% on the newer Clean Air Zone rules. I did get my 986 reclassified as it was showing as ULEZ for TFL but I got ticketed for driving through Birmingham CAZ and fought to get this over ruled or thrown out or whatever winning is called.
These are almost a 2+2 if you can all squeeze yourselves inwards for say a little trip. And yes that's 4 adults but the driver will need to move seat forward so will be squashed.
Entry cost is about 12 to 20k. I'll link to a good sounding car which sold via ebay auction recently and looked very cheap to Me. If you read all the details in the ad about work done on that car it will give you a good idea what's involved in keeping one of these cars tip top. They're over 25 years old now and no one wanted them around 15 years ago when they were selling for 7 grand and so most were not lavished with a lot of TLC.
You can run little 17 inch wheels on all none Turbo 996 and they still grip like stink with tiny 205 front tyres but the steering is much more delicate feeling. Most have had lowered stiffer suspension added over the years but I think a softer one could be joyous on our more rubbish roads.
Most maintenance jobs are DIY-able. We have some heroic owners dropping their gearbox on the drive. I'm not quite up there - but would like to be. I'm more of a discs and pads type of guy. Although I did recently do engine mounts and driveshafts on my 986 which is a bit more involved.
The smaller 2.7 986 is worth considering also and can run a 16 inch wheel setup. You can buy these for only 5 grand and a good one would be great but probably impossible to find for that money.
There are a couple of good threads here for you to check out if you're interested ---
Poverty pork
Anything Porsche which looks cheap, really cheap
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
Early 996 cars
Used to focus on 97 to 99 cars but is now frequented by people discussing anything 996 related
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/266852370052
Sold for £17,578
Here you can see this car has the original door cards without side airbag inserts - which look much better if you ask me. Also the lever pulls on the door sill for the bonnet and boot which identifies the earlier cars. These switched to electric buttons around 2000ish. Think cable release bonnet = cable throttle.
andy43 said:
That was exactly what I was going to post. Or Lotus or Caterham/Westfield or something old. Most modern stuff is never going to have the same rawness.
The OP said he "couldn't stand the whole convertible thing". If he couldn't cope with an MX-5, he'd freak out with a Caterham etc!ATM said:
Hoofy said:
turboLP said:
I started this thread just to see how my ideas about car enthusiast test in the real world. Thanks everyone for responding. This was enlightening.
As for car suggestions
this thread planted a 996 911 seed in my head.
To be honest, a 2+2 would be ideal for me, but the choice is probably even more limited there.
I don't know how deep a money pit a serious sports car such as Cayman or 996 could be.
One of the biggest concerns to me is ULEZ-compliability.
A later 996 will be ULEZ-compliant and £415 VED (dunno what the Cayman or Lotus VED is but the 370Z will be £715 IIRC).As for car suggestions
this thread planted a 996 911 seed in my head.
To be honest, a 2+2 would be ideal for me, but the choice is probably even more limited there.
I don't know how deep a money pit a serious sports car such as Cayman or 996 could be.
One of the biggest concerns to me is ULEZ-compliability.
As for buying a 996, if you get one that's had a Hartech rebuild (and check that the IMS has been uprated) plus has refreshed suspension, it will be good for years to come. Try a manual 996 for yourself and see what they're like. I think my 996 Turbo with standard suspension is too firm for British war-torn (
) roads. I'm forever darting left and right like I've had 3 too many.What you really want is a nice and simple 996. So that's 2wd, narrow body and none turbo. The earlier cars are better so the 3.4 litre. The very first 996 was the lightest water cooled car they ever made. They gradually got heavier. I [also] have a 1998 c2 coupe with no sunroof and no side airbags which is probably the lightest you can buy. The nerds get excited about cable throttle rather than fly by wire. This change happened around 1999 / 2000.
Also pre 2001 cars are only 345 road tax compared to 415.
You can get these reclassified as ULEZ if not already. I'm not 100% on the newer Clean Air Zone rules. I did get my 986 reclassified as it was showing as ULEZ for TFL but I got ticketed for driving through Birmingham CAZ and fought to get this over ruled or thrown out or whatever winning is called.
These are almost a 2+2 if you can all squeeze yourselves inwards for say a little trip. And yes that's 4 adults but the driver will need to move seat forward so will be squashed.
Entry cost is about 12 to 20k. I'll link to a good sounding car which sold via ebay auction recently and looked very cheap to Me. If you read all the details in the ad about work done on that car it will give you a good idea what's involved in keeping one of these cars tip top. They're over 25 years old now and no one wanted them around 15 years ago when they were selling for 7 grand and so most were not lavished with a lot of TLC.
You can run little 17 inch wheels on all none Turbo 996 and they still grip like stink with tiny 205 front tyres but the steering is much more delicate feeling. Most have had lowered stiffer suspension added over the years but I think a softer one could be joyous on our more rubbish roads.
Most maintenance jobs are DIY-able. We have some heroic owners dropping their gearbox on the drive. I'm not quite up there - but would like to be. I'm more of a discs and pads type of guy. Although I did recently do engine mounts and driveshafts on my 986 which is a bit more involved.
The smaller 2.7 986 is worth considering also and can run a 16 inch wheel setup. You can buy these for only 5 grand and a good one would be great but probably impossible to find for that money.
There are a couple of good threads here for you to check out if you're interested ---
Poverty pork
Anything Porsche which looks cheap, really cheap
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
Early 996 cars
Used to focus on 97 to 99 cars but is now frequented by people discussing anything 996 related
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/266852370052
Sold for £17,578
Here you can see this car has the original door cards without side airbag inserts - which look much better if you ask me. Also the lever pulls on the door sill for the bonnet and boot which identifies the earlier cars. These switched to electric buttons around 2000ish. Think cable release bonnet = cable throttle.
I run a lardy (!!) 2003 996 C2 with some trick suspension and a 3.9 motor. On road, in the UK it is a wonderous thing.
Amazingly capable but involving and good fun. I have a Caterham and Elise which are obviously more engaging still but require a lot more compromises.
As a 1 car solution, the 996 is fantastic. Get a good one, spend some money on making it "yours" and you have a winner..
911Spanker said:
ATM said:
Hoofy said:
turboLP said:
I started this thread just to see how my ideas about car enthusiast test in the real world. Thanks everyone for responding. This was enlightening.
As for car suggestions
this thread planted a 996 911 seed in my head.
To be honest, a 2+2 would be ideal for me, but the choice is probably even more limited there.
I don't know how deep a money pit a serious sports car such as Cayman or 996 could be.
One of the biggest concerns to me is ULEZ-compliability.
A later 996 will be ULEZ-compliant and £415 VED (dunno what the Cayman or Lotus VED is but the 370Z will be £715 IIRC).As for car suggestions
this thread planted a 996 911 seed in my head.
To be honest, a 2+2 would be ideal for me, but the choice is probably even more limited there.
I don't know how deep a money pit a serious sports car such as Cayman or 996 could be.
One of the biggest concerns to me is ULEZ-compliability.
As for buying a 996, if you get one that's had a Hartech rebuild (and check that the IMS has been uprated) plus has refreshed suspension, it will be good for years to come. Try a manual 996 for yourself and see what they're like. I think my 996 Turbo with standard suspension is too firm for British war-torn (
) roads. I'm forever darting left and right like I've had 3 too many.What you really want is a nice and simple 996. So that's 2wd, narrow body and none turbo. The earlier cars are better so the 3.4 litre. The very first 996 was the lightest water cooled car they ever made. They gradually got heavier. I [also] have a 1998 c2 coupe with no sunroof and no side airbags which is probably the lightest you can buy. The nerds get excited about cable throttle rather than fly by wire. This change happened around 1999 / 2000.
Also pre 2001 cars are only 345 road tax compared to 415.
You can get these reclassified as ULEZ if not already. I'm not 100% on the newer Clean Air Zone rules. I did get my 986 reclassified as it was showing as ULEZ for TFL but I got ticketed for driving through Birmingham CAZ and fought to get this over ruled or thrown out or whatever winning is called.
These are almost a 2+2 if you can all squeeze yourselves inwards for say a little trip. And yes that's 4 adults but the driver will need to move seat forward so will be squashed.
Entry cost is about 12 to 20k. I'll link to a good sounding car which sold via ebay auction recently and looked very cheap to Me. If you read all the details in the ad about work done on that car it will give you a good idea what's involved in keeping one of these cars tip top. They're over 25 years old now and no one wanted them around 15 years ago when they were selling for 7 grand and so most were not lavished with a lot of TLC.
You can run little 17 inch wheels on all none Turbo 996 and they still grip like stink with tiny 205 front tyres but the steering is much more delicate feeling. Most have had lowered stiffer suspension added over the years but I think a softer one could be joyous on our more rubbish roads.
Most maintenance jobs are DIY-able. We have some heroic owners dropping their gearbox on the drive. I'm not quite up there - but would like to be. I'm more of a discs and pads type of guy. Although I did recently do engine mounts and driveshafts on my 986 which is a bit more involved.
The smaller 2.7 986 is worth considering also and can run a 16 inch wheel setup. You can buy these for only 5 grand and a good one would be great but probably impossible to find for that money.
There are a couple of good threads here for you to check out if you're interested ---
Poverty pork
Anything Porsche which looks cheap, really cheap
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
Early 996 cars
Used to focus on 97 to 99 cars but is now frequented by people discussing anything 996 related
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/266852370052
Sold for £17,578
Here you can see this car has the original door cards without side airbag inserts - which look much better if you ask me. Also the lever pulls on the door sill for the bonnet and boot which identifies the earlier cars. These switched to electric buttons around 2000ish. Think cable release bonnet = cable throttle.
I run a lardy (!!) 2003 996 C2 with some trick suspension and a 3.9 motor. On road, in the UK it is a wonderous thing.
Amazingly capable but involving and good fun. I have a Caterham and Elise which are obviously more engaging still but require a lot more compromises.
As a 1 car solution, the 996 is fantastic. Get a good one, spend some money on making it "yours" and you have a winner..
biggbn said:
911Spanker said:
ATM said:
Hoofy said:
turboLP said:
I started this thread just to see how my ideas about car enthusiast test in the real world. Thanks everyone for responding. This was enlightening.
As for car suggestions
this thread planted a 996 911 seed in my head.
To be honest, a 2+2 would be ideal for me, but the choice is probably even more limited there.
I don't know how deep a money pit a serious sports car such as Cayman or 996 could be.
One of the biggest concerns to me is ULEZ-compliability.
A later 996 will be ULEZ-compliant and £415 VED (dunno what the Cayman or Lotus VED is but the 370Z will be £715 IIRC).As for car suggestions
this thread planted a 996 911 seed in my head.
To be honest, a 2+2 would be ideal for me, but the choice is probably even more limited there.
I don't know how deep a money pit a serious sports car such as Cayman or 996 could be.
One of the biggest concerns to me is ULEZ-compliability.
As for buying a 996, if you get one that's had a Hartech rebuild (and check that the IMS has been uprated) plus has refreshed suspension, it will be good for years to come. Try a manual 996 for yourself and see what they're like. I think my 996 Turbo with standard suspension is too firm for British war-torn (
) roads. I'm forever darting left and right like I've had 3 too many.What you really want is a nice and simple 996. So that's 2wd, narrow body and none turbo. The earlier cars are better so the 3.4 litre. The very first 996 was the lightest water cooled car they ever made. They gradually got heavier. I [also] have a 1998 c2 coupe with no sunroof and no side airbags which is probably the lightest you can buy. The nerds get excited about cable throttle rather than fly by wire. This change happened around 1999 / 2000.
Also pre 2001 cars are only 345 road tax compared to 415.
You can get these reclassified as ULEZ if not already. I'm not 100% on the newer Clean Air Zone rules. I did get my 986 reclassified as it was showing as ULEZ for TFL but I got ticketed for driving through Birmingham CAZ and fought to get this over ruled or thrown out or whatever winning is called.
These are almost a 2+2 if you can all squeeze yourselves inwards for say a little trip. And yes that's 4 adults but the driver will need to move seat forward so will be squashed.
Entry cost is about 12 to 20k. I'll link to a good sounding car which sold via ebay auction recently and looked very cheap to Me. If you read all the details in the ad about work done on that car it will give you a good idea what's involved in keeping one of these cars tip top. They're over 25 years old now and no one wanted them around 15 years ago when they were selling for 7 grand and so most were not lavished with a lot of TLC.
You can run little 17 inch wheels on all none Turbo 996 and they still grip like stink with tiny 205 front tyres but the steering is much more delicate feeling. Most have had lowered stiffer suspension added over the years but I think a softer one could be joyous on our more rubbish roads.
Most maintenance jobs are DIY-able. We have some heroic owners dropping their gearbox on the drive. I'm not quite up there - but would like to be. I'm more of a discs and pads type of guy. Although I did recently do engine mounts and driveshafts on my 986 which is a bit more involved.
The smaller 2.7 986 is worth considering also and can run a 16 inch wheel setup. You can buy these for only 5 grand and a good one would be great but probably impossible to find for that money.
There are a couple of good threads here for you to check out if you're interested ---
Poverty pork
Anything Porsche which looks cheap, really cheap
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
Early 996 cars
Used to focus on 97 to 99 cars but is now frequented by people discussing anything 996 related
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/266852370052
Sold for £17,578
Here you can see this car has the original door cards without side airbag inserts - which look much better if you ask me. Also the lever pulls on the door sill for the bonnet and boot which identifies the earlier cars. These switched to electric buttons around 2000ish. Think cable release bonnet = cable throttle.
I run a lardy (!!) 2003 996 C2 with some trick suspension and a 3.9 motor. On road, in the UK it is a wonderous thing.
Amazingly capable but involving and good fun. I have a Caterham and Elise which are obviously more engaging still but require a lot more compromises.
As a 1 car solution, the 996 is fantastic. Get a good one, spend some money on making it "yours" and you have a winner..
Serious question: why choose a 996 over a 986/7?
Strip away the 911 halo, and other than an extra 50 bhp I'm not sure what a 996 offers to compensate for its inherently flawed weight distribution.
Thought I'd ask here, as I'd get a better chance of sensible replies among folk who appreciate 'less is more'.
Strip away the 911 halo, and other than an extra 50 bhp I'm not sure what a 996 offers to compensate for its inherently flawed weight distribution.
Thought I'd ask here, as I'd get a better chance of sensible replies among folk who appreciate 'less is more'.
911Spanker said:
biggbn said:
911Spanker said:
ATM said:
Hoofy said:
turboLP said:
I started this thread just to see how my ideas about car enthusiast test in the real world. Thanks everyone for responding. This was enlightening.
As for car suggestions
this thread planted a 996 911 seed in my head.
To be honest, a 2+2 would be ideal for me, but the choice is probably even more limited there.
I don't know how deep a money pit a serious sports car such as Cayman or 996 could be.
One of the biggest concerns to me is ULEZ-compliability.
A later 996 will be ULEZ-compliant and £415 VED (dunno what the Cayman or Lotus VED is but the 370Z will be £715 IIRC).As for car suggestions
this thread planted a 996 911 seed in my head.
To be honest, a 2+2 would be ideal for me, but the choice is probably even more limited there.
I don't know how deep a money pit a serious sports car such as Cayman or 996 could be.
One of the biggest concerns to me is ULEZ-compliability.
As for buying a 996, if you get one that's had a Hartech rebuild (and check that the IMS has been uprated) plus has refreshed suspension, it will be good for years to come. Try a manual 996 for yourself and see what they're like. I think my 996 Turbo with standard suspension is too firm for British war-torn (
) roads. I'm forever darting left and right like I've had 3 too many.What you really want is a nice and simple 996. So that's 2wd, narrow body and none turbo. The earlier cars are better so the 3.4 litre. The very first 996 was the lightest water cooled car they ever made. They gradually got heavier. I [also] have a 1998 c2 coupe with no sunroof and no side airbags which is probably the lightest you can buy. The nerds get excited about cable throttle rather than fly by wire. This change happened around 1999 / 2000.
Also pre 2001 cars are only 345 road tax compared to 415.
You can get these reclassified as ULEZ if not already. I'm not 100% on the newer Clean Air Zone rules. I did get my 986 reclassified as it was showing as ULEZ for TFL but I got ticketed for driving through Birmingham CAZ and fought to get this over ruled or thrown out or whatever winning is called.
These are almost a 2+2 if you can all squeeze yourselves inwards for say a little trip. And yes that's 4 adults but the driver will need to move seat forward so will be squashed.
Entry cost is about 12 to 20k. I'll link to a good sounding car which sold via ebay auction recently and looked very cheap to Me. If you read all the details in the ad about work done on that car it will give you a good idea what's involved in keeping one of these cars tip top. They're over 25 years old now and no one wanted them around 15 years ago when they were selling for 7 grand and so most were not lavished with a lot of TLC.
You can run little 17 inch wheels on all none Turbo 996 and they still grip like stink with tiny 205 front tyres but the steering is much more delicate feeling. Most have had lowered stiffer suspension added over the years but I think a softer one could be joyous on our more rubbish roads.
Most maintenance jobs are DIY-able. We have some heroic owners dropping their gearbox on the drive. I'm not quite up there - but would like to be. I'm more of a discs and pads type of guy. Although I did recently do engine mounts and driveshafts on my 986 which is a bit more involved.
The smaller 2.7 986 is worth considering also and can run a 16 inch wheel setup. You can buy these for only 5 grand and a good one would be great but probably impossible to find for that money.
There are a couple of good threads here for you to check out if you're interested ---
Poverty pork
Anything Porsche which looks cheap, really cheap
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
Early 996 cars
Used to focus on 97 to 99 cars but is now frequented by people discussing anything 996 related
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/266852370052
Sold for £17,578
Here you can see this car has the original door cards without side airbag inserts - which look much better if you ask me. Also the lever pulls on the door sill for the bonnet and boot which identifies the earlier cars. These switched to electric buttons around 2000ish. Think cable release bonnet = cable throttle.
I run a lardy (!!) 2003 996 C2 with some trick suspension and a 3.9 motor. On road, in the UK it is a wonderous thing.
Amazingly capable but involving and good fun. I have a Caterham and Elise which are obviously more engaging still but require a lot more compromises.
As a 1 car solution, the 996 is fantastic. Get a good one, spend some money on making it "yours" and you have a winner..
plenty said:
Serious question: why choose a 996 over a 986/7?
Strip away the 911 halo, and other than an extra 50 bhp I'm not sure what a 996 offers to compensate for its inherently flawed weight distribution.
Thought I'd ask here, as I'd get a better chance of sensible replies among folk who appreciate 'less is more'.
The first thing to say it that the 911's weight distribution isn't inherently flawed, it's just different.Strip away the 911 halo, and other than an extra 50 bhp I'm not sure what a 996 offers to compensate for its inherently flawed weight distribution.
Thought I'd ask here, as I'd get a better chance of sensible replies among folk who appreciate 'less is more'.
The front to rear distribution isn't much different to an Elise/Exige. Then, the engine is obviously further back but is also much, much lower - nearly all the engine mass is down at the level of the wheel nuts. The 911's layout gives an advantage in straightline braking (the rear wheels can do more braking work than other layouts) and corner exit (more weight over the rear wheels giving better traction).
If you have a look back at early GT3 racing when the race cars were far closer to the road cars, the 996 GT3s and the 360 Challenge cars were similar overall pace but had advantages in different places. There used to a guy on the Porsche sub-forum who raced both and who gave really interesting insights on this.
The second thing is that the 911 has rear seats! Great for those with young kids. The 911 has nearly always been the lightest 2+2, and thus nearly always the best 2+2 sportscar to drive.
braddo said:
The first thing to say it that the 911's weight distribution isn't inherently flawed, it's just different.
The front to rear distribution isn't much different to an Elise/Exige. Then, the engine is obviously further back but is also much, much lower - nearly all the engine mass is down at the level of the wheel nuts.
Interesting, thanks. Compared with a 986/7 which also has boxer engines, the engine in a 996 is obviously much further rearward - behind the axle in fact. If 2+2 isn't a selling point, I suppose you'd really want its specific handling characteristics to choose a 996.The front to rear distribution isn't much different to an Elise/Exige. Then, the engine is obviously further back but is also much, much lower - nearly all the engine mass is down at the level of the wheel nuts.
TBH it's hard for me to see past most people wanting the 911 halo and not wanting the 'poor man's Porsche' rather than actually choosing rear-engined handling.
biggbn said:
911Spanker said:
biggbn said:
911Spanker said:
ATM said:
Hoofy said:
turboLP said:
I started this thread just to see how my ideas about car enthusiast test in the real world. Thanks everyone for responding. This was enlightening.
As for car suggestions
this thread planted a 996 911 seed in my head.
To be honest, a 2+2 would be ideal for me, but the choice is probably even more limited there.
I don't know how deep a money pit a serious sports car such as Cayman or 996 could be.
One of the biggest concerns to me is ULEZ-compliability.
A later 996 will be ULEZ-compliant and £415 VED (dunno what the Cayman or Lotus VED is but the 370Z will be £715 IIRC).As for car suggestions
this thread planted a 996 911 seed in my head.
To be honest, a 2+2 would be ideal for me, but the choice is probably even more limited there.
I don't know how deep a money pit a serious sports car such as Cayman or 996 could be.
One of the biggest concerns to me is ULEZ-compliability.
As for buying a 996, if you get one that's had a Hartech rebuild (and check that the IMS has been uprated) plus has refreshed suspension, it will be good for years to come. Try a manual 996 for yourself and see what they're like. I think my 996 Turbo with standard suspension is too firm for British war-torn (
) roads. I'm forever darting left and right like I've had 3 too many.What you really want is a nice and simple 996. So that's 2wd, narrow body and none turbo. The earlier cars are better so the 3.4 litre. The very first 996 was the lightest water cooled car they ever made. They gradually got heavier. I [also] have a 1998 c2 coupe with no sunroof and no side airbags which is probably the lightest you can buy. The nerds get excited about cable throttle rather than fly by wire. This change happened around 1999 / 2000.
Also pre 2001 cars are only 345 road tax compared to 415.
You can get these reclassified as ULEZ if not already. I'm not 100% on the newer Clean Air Zone rules. I did get my 986 reclassified as it was showing as ULEZ for TFL but I got ticketed for driving through Birmingham CAZ and fought to get this over ruled or thrown out or whatever winning is called.
These are almost a 2+2 if you can all squeeze yourselves inwards for say a little trip. And yes that's 4 adults but the driver will need to move seat forward so will be squashed.
Entry cost is about 12 to 20k. I'll link to a good sounding car which sold via ebay auction recently and looked very cheap to Me. If you read all the details in the ad about work done on that car it will give you a good idea what's involved in keeping one of these cars tip top. They're over 25 years old now and no one wanted them around 15 years ago when they were selling for 7 grand and so most were not lavished with a lot of TLC.
You can run little 17 inch wheels on all none Turbo 996 and they still grip like stink with tiny 205 front tyres but the steering is much more delicate feeling. Most have had lowered stiffer suspension added over the years but I think a softer one could be joyous on our more rubbish roads.
Most maintenance jobs are DIY-able. We have some heroic owners dropping their gearbox on the drive. I'm not quite up there - but would like to be. I'm more of a discs and pads type of guy. Although I did recently do engine mounts and driveshafts on my 986 which is a bit more involved.
The smaller 2.7 986 is worth considering also and can run a 16 inch wheel setup. You can buy these for only 5 grand and a good one would be great but probably impossible to find for that money.
There are a couple of good threads here for you to check out if you're interested ---
Poverty pork
Anything Porsche which looks cheap, really cheap
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
Early 996 cars
Used to focus on 97 to 99 cars but is now frequented by people discussing anything 996 related
https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&...
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/266852370052
Sold for £17,578
Here you can see this car has the original door cards without side airbag inserts - which look much better if you ask me. Also the lever pulls on the door sill for the bonnet and boot which identifies the earlier cars. These switched to electric buttons around 2000ish. Think cable release bonnet = cable throttle.
I run a lardy (!!) 2003 996 C2 with some trick suspension and a 3.9 motor. On road, in the UK it is a wonderous thing.
Amazingly capable but involving and good fun. I have a Caterham and Elise which are obviously more engaging still but require a lot more compromises.
As a 1 car solution, the 996 is fantastic. Get a good one, spend some money on making it "yours" and you have a winner..
Otherwise, if you buy a car without the IMS upgrade, just spend another £2k to get it done. IMS is the Archilles Heel of the 996.
plenty said:
Interesting, thanks. Compared with a 986/7 which also has boxer engines, the engine in a 996 is obviously much further rearward - behind the axle in fact. If 2+2 isn't a selling point, I suppose you'd really want its specific handling characteristics to choose a 996.
TBH it's hard for me to see past most people wanting the 911 halo and not wanting the 'poor man's Porsche' rather than actually choosing rear-engined handling.
There will always be people who potter about in sports cars and like the styling/image. But for people who drive more enthusiastically, they're not going to stick with a 911 if they don't like how they handle - there are often posters in GG who have tried 911s and didn't like them. TBH it's hard for me to see past most people wanting the 911 halo and not wanting the 'poor man's Porsche' rather than actually choosing rear-engined handling.
They're not that different to a mid-engined car to drive. They need some trail braking to get the nose to turn in and you need to be wary of lift-off oversteer - same applies to mid-engined cars.
braddo said:
There will always be people who potter about in sports cars and like the styling/image. But for people who drive more enthusiastically, they're not going to stick with a 911 if they don't like how they handle - there are often posters in GG who have tried 911s and didn't like them.
They're not that different to a mid-engined car to drive. They need some trail braking to get the nose to turn in and you need to be wary of lift-off oversteer - same applies to mid-engined cars.
I’m one.They're not that different to a mid-engined car to drive. They need some trail braking to get the nose to turn in and you need to be wary of lift-off oversteer - same applies to mid-engined cars.
A few years back I’d had a few test drives in 911s, and hadn’t enjoyed them.
Given the near universal praise they got from motoring journalists I thought that I must just need to give one more of a chance to get under my skin, so bought a brand new 997 as my main car.
I kept trying to give it a chance for two years, never once really loved it, and so sold it on.
braddo said:
Hoofy said:
IMS is the Archilles Heel of the 996.
No, bore scoring is the much bigger issue. It's this which necessitates so many expensive engine rebuilds.On the other hand,
https://lnengineering.com/products/watercooled-por...
7 5 7 said:
Try a MX5, think these are pretty good...
OP said:
I eventually started my journey by getting an old NB Miata
OP, a few suggestions:
- work out what it is that you liked most about the Miata, and what is missing in the modern ND MX5 and GR86. It sounds like steering feel, but that might not be the only thing
- see if you can try another MX5 or GR86, but change the way you hold the wheel - modern EPAS CAN pass messages through the steering pretty well, but they're often muted through excess assistance...a light, finger-tip grip on the wheel will let more of the messages pass through. Plus often the nuanced patter from a good manual rack or older PAS system isn't essential (some people have to have it, some don't), as the key thing when driving is to have that natual weight to the steering - getting heavier as you load up the wheel at higher speeds / going 'glassy' when the front tyres lose grip.
- have a balanced conversation with yourself about the pro's and con's of older cars (rust, higher maintenance needs, worse crash protection, more likely to be outdragged by a taxi
) vs newer cars (too much power / torque? bloated / worse visibility, nannying tech, less feelsome steering)...and then work out where you think the sweet-spot is likely to be for you. It might be a 90s lightweight sports car, it might be a 2000s 'modern muscle car', it might be something altogether different...then try a few machines out, ideally for more than a 20-minute test drive (a lot of very good and involving cars take time to reveal the best bits about them).
Just got back yesterday from ten days in mainland Europe in the Evora (2021 410GT), covering motorways, sweeping mountain roads, alpine passes and everything in between.
I know I'm biased, but the steering and suspension are just magical compared to pretty much everything else. Had a passenger swap one day with friends during the week and my mate commented that he was astounded how well it rode and how beautifully it cornered without being difficult to live with on a motorway, an Alp, or around town.
How Lotus didn't put the contemporary 911 out of business with this car I'll never know.
I know I'm biased, but the steering and suspension are just magical compared to pretty much everything else. Had a passenger swap one day with friends during the week and my mate commented that he was astounded how well it rode and how beautifully it cornered without being difficult to live with on a motorway, an Alp, or around town.
How Lotus didn't put the contemporary 911 out of business with this car I'll never know.
Baldchap said:
Just got back yesterday from ten days in mainland Europe in the Evora (2021 410GT), covering motorways, sweeping mountain roads, alpine passes and everything in between.
I know I'm biased, but the steering and suspension are just magical compared to pretty much everything else. Had a passenger swap one day with friends during the week and my mate commented that he was astounded how well it rode and how beautifully it cornered without being difficult to live with on a motorway, an Alp, or around town.
How Lotus didn't put the contemporary 911 out of business with this car I'll never know.
I think the badge and the perception of poor reliability plays a massive part in that for Lotus rightly or wrongly. Plus if Porsche didn't exist, then there would still be a chance that TVR would still be around I reckon too.I know I'm biased, but the steering and suspension are just magical compared to pretty much everything else. Had a passenger swap one day with friends during the week and my mate commented that he was astounded how well it rode and how beautifully it cornered without being difficult to live with on a motorway, an Alp, or around town.
How Lotus didn't put the contemporary 911 out of business with this car I'll never know.
The 911/Cayman/Boxster helped to kill TVR off for me, because punters went across to Porsche because they'd had enough of TVR's build/reliability issues. So for their £40k plus money they would rather go to a manufacturer that was perceived as being better built/more reliable with Porsche.
I've had all the possible engine layouts and am currently running a Cayman (mid-engined but very benign handling) and an MX-5 (metal folding hardtop, lovely handling but a bit under powered). I recently sold my Caterham Supersport after 18 years (beautifully nippy but far too raw for the OP apparently!) and have previously also had a powerful rear-engined car (a bog-standard 875cc Hillman Imp - powerful compared with a 2CV!).
After the Caterham, the MX-5 feels like a limousine, even top down. So in the OP's shoes I'd go for an MX-5, with a bolt-on hardtop if you must (as suggested earlier in this thread) and with a BBR upgrade if possible. But he's already had one
.
After the Caterham, the MX-5 feels like a limousine, even top down. So in the OP's shoes I'd go for an MX-5, with a bolt-on hardtop if you must (as suggested earlier in this thread) and with a BBR upgrade if possible. But he's already had one
.Hoofy said:
braddo said:
Hoofy said:
IMS is the Archilles Heel of the 996.
No, bore scoring is the much bigger issue. It's this which necessitates so many expensive engine rebuilds.On the other hand,
https://lnengineering.com/products/watercooled-por...
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