Max Verstappen
Discussion
simon_harris said:
It is not flawed genius, it is just flawed. He constantly proves that unless he has a field beating car he cannot win, if he does not have that car then he has to cheat which basically means he cannot win without an advantage.
His absence of a moral code that says it is okay to cheat should not be revered or celebrated.
I found the post race interview revealing, too: after the incident debate, all about how poor the team performance, the strategy & the car was, but no acknowledgement of his part in that.His absence of a moral code that says it is okay to cheat should not be revered or celebrated.
MarkwG said:
simon_harris said:
It is not flawed genius, it is just flawed. He constantly proves that unless he has a field beating car he cannot win, if he does not have that car then he has to cheat which basically means he cannot win without an advantage.
His absence of a moral code that says it is okay to cheat should not be revered or celebrated.
I found the post race interview revealing, too: after the incident debate, all about how poor the team performance, the strategy & the car was, but no acknowledgement of his part in that.His absence of a moral code that says it is okay to cheat should not be revered or celebrated.
Yes, any proper fan would. The rules are the rules. One of Vettels titles was won this way, yes it was a bit boring, but making up the rules on the spot makes the entire thing pointless.
p1stonhead said:
MarkwG said:
simon_harris said:
It is not flawed genius, it is just flawed. He constantly proves that unless he has a field beating car he cannot win, if he does not have that car then he has to cheat which basically means he cannot win without an advantage.
His absence of a moral code that says it is okay to cheat should not be revered or celebrated.
I found the post race interview revealing, too: after the incident debate, all about how poor the team performance, the strategy & the car was, but no acknowledgement of his part in that.His absence of a moral code that says it is okay to cheat should not be revered or celebrated.
Yes, any proper fan would. The rules are the rules. One of Vettels titles was won this way, yes it was a bit boring, but making up the rules on the spot makes the entire thing pointless.
simon_harris said:
p1stonhead said:
MarkwG said:
simon_harris said:
It is not flawed genius, it is just flawed. He constantly proves that unless he has a field beating car he cannot win, if he does not have that car then he has to cheat which basically means he cannot win without an advantage.
His absence of a moral code that says it is okay to cheat should not be revered or celebrated.
I found the post race interview revealing, too: after the incident debate, all about how poor the team performance, the strategy & the car was, but no acknowledgement of his part in that.His absence of a moral code that says it is okay to cheat should not be revered or celebrated.
Yes, any proper fan would. The rules are the rules. One of Vettels titles was won this way, yes it was a bit boring, but making up the rules on the spot makes the entire thing pointless.
It’s bizarre.
Even if they cancelled AD’s result and Max won on count back, at least he would have won in a reasonably understandable way.
carlo996 said:
TheDeuce said:
Winning by breaking the rules doesn't do it for me.
That's why you are not winning F1 Champs..... 
There's nothing wrong with hard competition - pushing to the rules to the limits and not giving an inch.
But breaking the rules is not acceptable in any sport - otherwise, what's the point in rules?
732NM said:
carlo996 said:
The only rubbish is spouted by those who need to push their personal narrative, and have likely zero track experience themselves. Lando was naive, as you are in defending his knee jerk move.
I've a lifetime of track experience, both behind the wheel and in the pits.You're posting complete nonsense, you always have when it comes to Max and his poor driving standards.
Dave200 said:
732NM said:
carlo996 said:
The only rubbish is spouted by those who need to push their personal narrative, and have likely zero track experience themselves. Lando was naive, as you are in defending his knee jerk move.
I've a lifetime of track experience, both behind the wheel and in the pits.You're posting complete nonsense, you always have when it comes to Max and his poor driving standards.
paulguitar said:
Dave200 said:
732NM said:
carlo996 said:
The only rubbish is spouted by those who need to push their personal narrative, and have likely zero track experience themselves. Lando was naive, as you are in defending his knee jerk move.
I've a lifetime of track experience, both behind the wheel and in the pits.You're posting complete nonsense, you always have when it comes to Max and his poor driving standards.
'Max Verstappen did not deserve a penalty' - Alex Wurz, the current Grand Prix Drivers Association President no less.
https://www.motorsport-magazin.com/formel1/news-28...
Similar defence of Max here by Peter Windsor:
https://youtu.be/qlwNeVVJIdk?si=YZTvHZ_HQWXg3SP5
paulguitar said:
Dave200 said:
732NM said:
carlo996 said:
The only rubbish is spouted by those who need to push their personal narrative, and have likely zero track experience themselves. Lando was naive, as you are in defending his knee jerk move.
I've a lifetime of track experience, both behind the wheel and in the pits.You're posting complete nonsense, you always have when it comes to Max and his poor driving standards.
Maybe F1 should have a look at US series like Indycar and indy nxt?
You're allowed to move and defend but you are not allowed to block. Blocking is moving in reaction to the driver behind, anywhere, not just into a corner. So you can move to defend a corner, but you have to choose your line BEFORE the driver behind chooses theirs.
It incurs an immediate penalty and is easy and quick to review on video. They've been running it for years and it works well. You don't get much erratic driving from any of the field because they know they won't get away with it. You'd think US liberty media would want to adopt things like this.
You're allowed to move and defend but you are not allowed to block. Blocking is moving in reaction to the driver behind, anywhere, not just into a corner. So you can move to defend a corner, but you have to choose your line BEFORE the driver behind chooses theirs.
It incurs an immediate penalty and is easy and quick to review on video. They've been running it for years and it works well. You don't get much erratic driving from any of the field because they know they won't get away with it. You'd think US liberty media would want to adopt things like this.
mattikake said:
Maybe F1 should have a look at US series like Indycar and indy nxt?
You're allowed to move and defend but you are not allowed to block. Blocking is moving in reaction to the driver behind, anywhere, not just into a corner. So you can move to defend a corner, but you have to choose your line BEFORE the driver behind chooses theirs.
It incurs an immediate penalty and is easy and quick to review on video. They've been running it for years and it works well. You don't get much erratic driving from any of the field because they know they won't get away with it. You'd think US liberty media would want to adopt things like this.
It might be worth looking at. It's a shame Verstappen has caused the need to do this. He's got so much talent but isn't going to end up in the pantheon of greats unless he learns/decides to race fairly. You're allowed to move and defend but you are not allowed to block. Blocking is moving in reaction to the driver behind, anywhere, not just into a corner. So you can move to defend a corner, but you have to choose your line BEFORE the driver behind chooses theirs.
It incurs an immediate penalty and is easy and quick to review on video. They've been running it for years and it works well. You don't get much erratic driving from any of the field because they know they won't get away with it. You'd think US liberty media would want to adopt things like this.
Muzzer79 said:
What a terribly sad viewpoint.
There's nothing wrong with hard competition - pushing to the rules to the limits and not giving an inch.
But breaking the rules is not acceptable in any sport - otherwise, what's the point in rules?
Rules are pushed by everyone, all the time in competition, if not....then you are not really in the right place. It's genuinely funny the level of personal comments when some don't agree with a pov, and quite remarkable that someone would stop watching a sport they 'love' because of an incident? Over manyt years of F1 there have been many scandals, it's purely a tribal thing that you chose which one steps over your personal line. The main focus on PH is bashing RB and bashing Max and Perez. Although the same level of 'banter' doesn't go down that well when it is aimed at others, which is why it cannot be taken seriously tbh. Spygate, Crashgate, water cooled brakes, weight tricks, aero tricks, fuelgate, traction control, team orders....and guess what.....none of these involved RB There's nothing wrong with hard competition - pushing to the rules to the limits and not giving an inch.
But breaking the rules is not acceptable in any sport - otherwise, what's the point in rules?
As for Mercedes, fancy steering, front wing, cooling wheel, this is what happens when you push the envelope. It's not a 'following the rules' type sport racing prototypes!Think what you will but without Verstappen and Red Bull the sport would be a weaker spectacle. They have forced the other teams to up their games and the dominance is cyclical, as has been said many, many times we have seen this dominance with other teams in the past. If he was a Brit, I very much doubt there would be half the fuss being made.
carlo996 said:
Rules are pushed by everyone, all the time in competition, if not....then you are not really in the right place.
Why do you try to write as though you have understanding of what it means to compete at the top level, of anything, trying to lecture others despite not being in a position to do so?You haven’t, and just come across as having some form of mental health issue when you do.
paulguitar said:
It might be worth looking at. It's a shame Verstappen has caused the need to do this. He's got so much talent but isn't going to end up in the pantheon of greats unless he learns/decides to race fairly.
Maybe not for you, but rest assured he will. The general view of winners in the UK comes with strings, look at Pringle
'“Things may be changing now, and I do recognise that we had several years of a British driver dominating the championship, and we didn't mind that so much as a British promoter, but it's certainly been a lot harder with Red Bull dominating.”
What a shame, it's more like Silverstone prices are daft and it's a complete crap hole. But no, apparently we can't have one of these foreign types doing all the winning...that just wont do for our ticket sales
Here's the Original Post on this thread seven years ago. Max hasn't really improved over the years, has he?
anonymous-user said:
http://www.grandprix247.com/2017/06/29/verstappen-...
As much as I think Verstappen is a huge breath of fresh air in F1, his non-appearance at the team picture at the end of the race for Ricciardo's win was pretty poor.
When Lewis and Rosberg were basically wanting to kill each other they still stayed and took part in all media duties and more importantly were in the team photo's
Clearly has the same temper as his his father when things are not going his way, which is a very bad thing.
As much as I think Verstappen is a huge breath of fresh air in F1, his non-appearance at the team picture at the end of the race for Ricciardo's win was pretty poor.
When Lewis and Rosberg were basically wanting to kill each other they still stayed and took part in all media duties and more importantly were in the team photo's
Clearly has the same temper as his his father when things are not going his way, which is a very bad thing.
carlo996 said:
paulguitar said:
It might be worth looking at. It's a shame Verstappen has caused the need to do this. He's got so much talent but isn't going to end up in the pantheon of greats unless he learns/decides to race fairly.
Maybe not for you, but rest assured he will. The general view of winners in the UK comes with strings, look at Pringle
'“Things may be changing now, and I do recognise that we had several years of a British driver dominating the championship, and we didn't mind that so much as a British promoter, but it's certainly been a lot harder with Red Bull dominating.”
What a shame, it's more like Silverstone prices are daft and it's a complete crap hole. But no, apparently we can't have one of these foreign types doing all the winning...that just wont do for our ticket sales
As far as Silverstone goes, they've raised the prices way too much. Stuart Pringle tried to use Red Bull dominance as an excuse for the venue not selling out, but it's far more likely to be that it costs £2,000 for a farmly to get tickets, plus the disgraceful 'dynamic' pricing policy. They no longer have that excuse anyway, we've thankfully started to see some racing at the front.
I'm still deciding whether to go this weekend actually. Might just pop in for quali and watch the race with some beers at home.
carlo996 said:
Rules are pushed by everyone, all the time in competition, if not....then you are not really in the right place. It's genuinely funny the level of personal comments when some don't agree with a pov, and quite remarkable that someone would stop watching a sport they 'love' because of an incident? Over manyt years of F1 there have been many scandals, it's purely a tribal thing that you chose which one steps over your personal line. The main focus on PH is bashing RB and bashing Max and Perez. Although the same level of 'banter' doesn't go down that well when it is aimed at others, which is why it cannot be taken seriously tbh. Spygate, Crashgate, water cooled brakes, weight tricks, aero tricks, fuelgate, traction control, team orders....and guess what.....none of these involved RB As for Mercedes, fancy steering, front wing, cooling wheel, this is what happens when you push the envelope. It's not a 'following the rules' type sport racing prototypes!
Think what you will but without Verstappen and Red Bull the sport would be a weaker spectacle. They have forced the other teams to up their games and the dominance is cyclical, as has been said many, many times we have seen this dominance with other teams in the past. If he was a Brit, I very much doubt there would be half the fuss being made.
I think a lot of this is very valid, we want the sport and technical rules to be pushed to the limit. However where a driver is breaking them on track then they should be punished properly, be that Max, Lando, Lewis or whoever... As for Mercedes, fancy steering, front wing, cooling wheel, this is what happens when you push the envelope. It's not a 'following the rules' type sport racing prototypes!Think what you will but without Verstappen and Red Bull the sport would be a weaker spectacle. They have forced the other teams to up their games and the dominance is cyclical, as has been said many, many times we have seen this dominance with other teams in the past. If he was a Brit, I very much doubt there would be half the fuss being made.
People also need to remember this is entertainment.....
davidd said:
I think a lot of this is very valid, we want the sport and technical rules to be pushed to the limit. However where a driver is breaking them on track then they should be punished properly, be that Max, Lando, Lewis or whoever...
People also need to remember this is entertainment.....
In that case, maybe resurrect Bernie's idea of sprinklers on certain parts of the track, perhaps at the whim of the Race Director.People also need to remember this is entertainment.....
carlo996 said:
The only rubbish is spouted by those who need to push their personal narrative, and have likely zero track experience themselves.
Which is precisely what you are doing.Verstappen was clearly in the wrong, yet here you are defending him. If he was not in the wrong why did the stewards see fit to award 2 points on his licence?
MustangGT said:
carlo996 said:
The only rubbish is spouted by those who need to push their personal narrative, and have likely zero track experience themselves.
Which is precisely what you are doing.Verstappen was clearly in the wrong, yet here you are defending him. If he was not in the wrong why did the stewards see fit to award 2 points on his licence?
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