Reform UK - A symptom of all that is wrong?

[Carl_VivaEspana]

MDMetal said:

Amazing the stuff that gets dredged up near the end of elections by the parties with the most to loose....

Reform are "dangerous" because they've turned up with their own menu to the party and everyone is now wondering why the two main parties have fairly identical policies mainly centred around taking more money off you to spend on various things you don't care or want. Quick! Let's tell everyone they're racists so nobody starts talking about their ideas.

hah, indeed.

[rscott]

JagLover said:

MDMetal said:

Amazing the stuff that gets dredged up near the end of elections by the parties with the most to loose....

Reform are "dangerous" because they've turned up with their own menu to the party and everyone is now wondering why the two main parties have fairly identical policies mainly centred around taking more money off you to spend on various things you don't care or want. Quick! Let's tell everyone they're racists so nobody starts talking about their ideas.

Reform don't seem too keen to discuss the details of their policies though - especially after Farage's Royal Marines comment showed he has no idea how they would return anyone arriving by small boat.
Their fiscal policies make even less sense than those of the other parties, at least that's the view of the IFS and Tax Policy Associates.


It's pretty clear Reform rushed to find candidates and did an abysmal job of even basic screening. That doesn't help their image of being a sensible new alternative.

The latest reports are of more than a dozen of their candidates making fairly inappropriate comments about the monarchy. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13589851/...

[Mr Penguin]

https://www.thetimes.com/uk/scotland/article/refor...

Some great lines here

Labour and the Conservatives have each had one or two candidates say or do something stupid (out of 630), how many is it for Reform? I haven't been counting.

[Fast and Spurious]

rscott said:

Reform don't seem too keen to discuss the details of their policies though - especially after Farage's Royal Marines comment showed he has no idea how they would return anyone arriving by small boat.
Their fiscal policies make even less sense than those of the other parties, at least that's the view of the IFS and Tax Policy Associates.


It's pretty clear Reform rushed to find candidates and did an abysmal job of even basic screening. That doesn't help their image of being a sensible new alternative.

The latest reports are of more than a dozen of their candidates making fairly inappropriate comments about the monarchy. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13589851/...

And you think that, for example, Labour candidates never say anything like that?
You think that the media report everything, in an unbiased way too?
Think about it.

[President Merkin]

Fast and Spurious said:

And you think that, for example, Labour candidates never say anything like that?
You think that the media report everything, in an unbiased way too?
Think about it.

OK, I've thought about it. Out of the daily Newspapers, The Mail, Express, Telegraph, Times & Sun are all right wing. The Independent & FT are in the middle & the Mirror is left wing. So, five vs two. Presumably then, the right biased media, motivated against Labour should be able to provide you with an equivalent stream of Labour PPC's spewing up similarly awful comments to shore up your premise. Right?

[JagLover]

President Merkin said:

OK, I've thought about it. Out of the daily Newspapers, The Mail, Express, Telegraph, Times & Sun are all right wing. The Independent & FT are in the middle & the Mirror is left wing. So, five vs two. Presumably then, the right biased media, motivated against Labour should be able to provide you with an equivalent stream of Labour PPC's spewing up similarly awful comments to shore up your premise. Right?

What are the interests of the owners of those newspapers and their most important advertisers?

We already know that Murdoch is backing Labour as he usually backs the winning side, so that is two of your "right wing" papers right there.

The Daily Mail and Telegraph seem busy trying to shore up the Tory vote, but more on the basis that they can be ready to take back power, when it is their turn to continue the agenda, than anything else.

This notion that there is an ideological motivated "right wing" press that report on the basis of their ideology seems very flawed. They pander to their readers to keep them reading and serve the money men and promote their interests.

Reform were useful in ensuring a Labour victory when they were polling at 10-15% but became too dangerous once some polls showed them at around 20%. Hence the sudden hatchet jobs, including by the supposed "right-wing" press.

[Killboy]

Elysium said:

But some people on the left wing cannot seem to cope with minorities that are both successful and socially conservative.

[Digga]

President Merkin said:

Fast and Spurious said:

And you think that, for example, Labour candidates never say anything like that?
You think that the media report everything, in an unbiased way too?
Think about it.

OK, I've thought about it. Out of the daily Newspapers, The Mail, Express, Telegraph, Times & Sun are all right wing. The Independent & FT are in the middle & the Mirror is left wing. So, five vs two. Presumably then, the right biased media, motivated against Labour should be able to provide you with an equivalent stream of Labour PPC's spewing up similarly awful comments to shore up your premise. Right?

FWIW I don;t personally believe it is now a case of newspapers and media merely being 'left' or 'right', red or blue. Perhaps in the past, but not now.

There are many dynamics at play. Some of the media are still very wary of the not so distant past of Labour and Corbynism. So they're left, but not that left and concerned about Starmer's ability to keep the peanutter gallery quiet.

Some of the media used to be true blue but, after the utter stshow since 2016 are truly in agreement the Tory party could not and should not return to power.

However, as much as alliances with either or both main parties may have worn thin, they are long standing and based on an awful lot of mutual interest. Reform are not playing to that and therefore threaten both the main parties and media themselves. The media are very quick on the draw with Reform - most interviews with Farage seem intent on a 'gotcha' moment.

My personal take is, if Refrom want to provide a genuine alternative, then they have to be above and beyond the establishment. End of. No one wants more of the same.

[Castrol for a knave]

Don't forget, Farage has his own show on GB News, so there is an element of he's competing media.

I agree with your last point Digga, they do have to be a cut above, otherwise, it's just a right wing Macron and ultimately, more of the same.

I do think there is an element of "gotcha" but that seems to be across politics, probably driven by social media - the usual "Liberal/fascist/ destroys politician/woke/racist - delete as applicable" stuff. He also has an annoying habit of just downloading, and when challenged on the detail pivots to play the man not he ball, very Trumpian and Orban - whatever colour of the rosette, this is not the way politics should go.

and his boycott of the BBC is comedy gold. Pro-rata, he has had the highest number of appearances on Question time, more than any other politician. 36 over 24 years. There are others with more, but over a far longer period.

[President Merkin]

Castrol for a knave said:

Don't forget, Farage has his own show on GB News, so there is an element of he's competing media.

I agree with your last point Digga, they do have to be a cut above (the establishment), otherwise, it's just a right wing Macron and ultimately, more of the same.

I'm going to need some persuading how they aren't the establshment. Tice, Uppingham, Habib, Rugby, Farage, Dulwich college. Habib, wealthiest MEP by a mile, Tice inherits a significant property group, Farage, erstwhile commodities trader, hardly the sons of toil whom they seek to exploit. They are by any reasonable definition, balls deep in the establishment imo.

Thought experiment - If there were no election, how often do you reckon you'd see any of those three in Jaywick for the weekend?

[Castrol for a knave]

President Merkin said:

Castrol for a knave said:

Don't forget, Farage has his own show on GB News, so there is an element of he's competing media.

I agree with your last point Digga, they do have to be a cut above (the establishment), otherwise, it's just a right wing Macron and ultimately, more of the same.

I'm going to need some persuading how they aren't the establshment. Tice, Uppingham, Habib, Rugby, Farage, Dulwich college. Habib, wealthiest MEP by a mile, Tice inherits a significant property group, Farage, erstwhile commodities trader, hardly the sons of toil whom they seek to exploit. They are by any reasonable definition, balls deep in the establishment imo.

Thought experiment - If there were no election, how often do you reckon you'd see any of those three in Jaywick for the weekend?

Ah no, they are very much the establishment. The whole UKIP/Reform movement has been a procession of very rich men, most from privileged backgrounds, all telling us how they want to smash the elites. Like teenage Marxists at Shrewsbury School.

[Digga]

Castrol for a knave said:

President Merkin said:

Castrol for a knave said:

Don't forget, Farage has his own show on GB News, so there is an element of he's competing media.

I agree with your last point Digga, they do have to be a cut above (the establishment), otherwise, it's just a right wing Macron and ultimately, more of the same.

I'm going to need some persuading how they aren't the establshment. Tice, Uppingham, Habib, Rugby, Farage, Dulwich college. Habib, wealthiest MEP by a mile, Tice inherits a significant property group, Farage, erstwhile commodities trader, hardly the sons of toil whom they seek to exploit. They are by any reasonable definition, balls deep in the establishment imo.

Thought experiment - If there were no election, how often do you reckon you'd see any of those three in Jaywick for the weekend?

Ah no, they are very much the establishment. The whole UKIP/Reform movement has been a procession of very rich men, most from privileged backgrounds, all telling us how they want to smash the elites. Like teenage Marxists at Shrewsbury School.

In the use of the word establishment, I merely meant established parties with long running relations and links to media.

Yes, as far as the bulk of their offices go, they are at least as stale, male and pale middle class as much of the rest.

[Wills2]

Killboy said:

Elysium said:

But some people on the left wing cannot seem to cope with minorities that are both successful and socially conservative.

You laugh but

Rupa Huq has apologised for her “ill-judged” remarks after being suspended as a Labour MP for describing Chancellor Kwasi Kwarteng as “superficially” black.

So it is a thing, Emma Dent Coad, then the Corbynite Labour MP for Kensington called a black Tory candidate a "token ghetto boy" who wouldn't be welcome in her constituency if he was elected in a neighbouring area...

[768]

President Merkin said:

Fast and Spurious said:

And you think that, for example, Labour candidates never say anything like that?
You think that the media report everything, in an unbiased way too?
Think about it.

OK, I've thought about it. Out of the daily Newspapers, The Mail, Express, Telegraph, Times & Sun are all right wing. The Independent & FT are in the middle & the Mirror is left wing. So, five vs two. Presumably then, the right biased media, motivated against Labour should be able to provide you with an equivalent stream of Labour PPC's spewing up similarly awful comments to shore up your premise. Right?

Crass enough?

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1886965/Ke...

[Killboy]

Wills2 said:

You laugh but

Rupa Huq has apologised for her “ill-judged” remarks after being suspended as a Labour MP for describing Chancellor Kwasi Kwarteng as “superficially” black.

So it is a thing, Emma Dent Coad, then the Corbynite Labour MP for Kensington called a black Tory candidate a "token ghetto boy" who wouldn't be welcome in her constituency if he was elected in a neighbouring area...

So it’s a left wing thing?

[Wills2]

Killboy said:

Wills2 said:

You laugh but

Rupa Huq has apologised for her “ill-judged” remarks after being suspended as a Labour MP for describing Chancellor Kwasi Kwarteng as “superficially” black.

So it is a thing, Emma Dent Coad, then the Corbynite Labour MP for Kensington called a black Tory candidate a "token ghetto boy" who wouldn't be welcome in her constituency if he was elected in a neighbouring area...

So it’s a left wing thing?

I'm not here to spoon feed you fella.

[S600BSB]

Mr Penguin said:

https://www.thetimes.com/uk/scotland/article/refor...

Some great lines here

Labour and the Conservatives have each had one or two candidates say or do something stupid (out of 630), how many is it for Reform? I haven't been counting.

Good point. There are a large number of awful Reform candidates. Not really sure where they find them tbh.

[Vasco]

Thank goodness that we've had only 6,600+ posts on this thread. I had a fear that people might simply ignore the Reform party.........

[President Merkin]

768 said:

President Merkin said:

Fast and Spurious said:

And you think that, for example, Labour candidates never say anything like that?
You think that the media report everything, in an unbiased way too?
Think about it.

OK, I've thought about it. Out of the daily Newspapers, The Mail, Express, Telegraph, Times & Sun are all right wing. The Independent & FT are in the middle & the Mirror is left wing. So, five vs two. Presumably then, the right biased media, motivated against Labour should be able to provide you with an equivalent stream of Labour PPC's spewing up similarly awful comments to shore up your premise. Right?

Crass enough?

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1886965/Ke...

Yes, beyond crass. What's your point?

[Killboy]

Wills2 said:

I'm not here to spoon feed you fella.

That’s okay. It looks like it might be a lot of hot air on that spoon.