Exactly the same running costs, would you go ICE or EV?
Discussion
If an EV(battery only electric) had exactly the same costs to buy/run as an ICE(internal combustion engine), would you still buy an EV?
As a general rule I see EVs as being purchased for their financial incentives and cheaper running costs, and there isn't anything wrong with that of course. However if both ICE and EVs had the identical purchase price and the same total running costs, would you still buy the EV?
I personally wouldn't and I'd stick with ICE, but I'm interested in how many of you would though?
As a general rule I see EVs as being purchased for their financial incentives and cheaper running costs, and there isn't anything wrong with that of course. However if both ICE and EVs had the identical purchase price and the same total running costs, would you still buy the EV?
I personally wouldn't and I'd stick with ICE, but I'm interested in how many of you would though?
if the running costs were the same, then i'd have an ICE car. because ICE cars are far faster to fuel, and go further once fully fuelled.
EVs are nice and quiet and easy to drive for the daily commute, but a decent automatic ICE car is perfectly quiet and easy to drive as well, so thats not really a deciding factor.
EVs are nice and quiet and easy to drive for the daily commute, but a decent automatic ICE car is perfectly quiet and easy to drive as well, so thats not really a deciding factor.
Going from my (Company) EV to my personal ICE family car feels like stepping back in time, it's archaic. The EV is so smooth, easy to live with, quick, quiet etc.
There will always be a place for "Interesting" ICE cars, but when you're talking about the every day runabout, why compromise with an ICE car? Modern family cars with ICE's are pretty dull. And most EV's will have a range of at least 200 miles - since we live on a relatively tiny island, that's quite enough for 99% of journeys.
Keep the hot-hatches, the V8s and the sports cars, but the family Peugeot 5008's or Kia Sportage's et al can die off quietly please.
There will always be a place for "Interesting" ICE cars, but when you're talking about the every day runabout, why compromise with an ICE car? Modern family cars with ICE's are pretty dull. And most EV's will have a range of at least 200 miles - since we live on a relatively tiny island, that's quite enough for 99% of journeys.
Keep the hot-hatches, the V8s and the sports cars, but the family Peugeot 5008's or Kia Sportage's et al can die off quietly please.
I would have an EV (with one doubt).
I have an EV now, a company car Leaf. I never wanted it and it's small battery is a PITA on a long journey but I love the way it drives, perfect for the real world of UK driving.
The doubt comes in because I keep private cars forever, our other car is a 17 year old Toyota turbo diesel I bought new, so the battery life after 10 years would be on my mind.
I have an EV now, a company car Leaf. I never wanted it and it's small battery is a PITA on a long journey but I love the way it drives, perfect for the real world of UK driving.
The doubt comes in because I keep private cars forever, our other car is a 17 year old Toyota turbo diesel I bought new, so the battery life after 10 years would be on my mind.
C.A.R. said:
Keep the hot-hatches, the V8s and the sports cars, but the family Peugeot 5008's or Kia Sportage's et al can die off quietly please.
Agreed!I'm not a huge fan of EVs but similarly, I don't get much joy out of commuting or driving along a motorway in a modern ICE car either. I would happily have an EV for all of the boring journeys and then just keep my fun cars for the fun stuff.
EVs as part of a fleet make perfect sense to me, where they do not make sense to me (as a car enthusiast) is as a one car solution. If I could tow with an EV (I need to tow a race car + trailer at ~1200kg) and get one through salary sacrifice, I'd happily replace my family car
Edited by LennyM1984 on Wednesday 3rd July 10:04
If I lived in a city and wanted a small run about to get from A-B and it was cheap, and I had a drive to charge it on - EV absolute no brainer.
Otherwise, as a rural dweller, my trusty 3.0 TDI with 500 miles range and no hard earned capital tied up in it is perfect.
As a slight aside, I have just returned from 8 days in northern Italy and in that time I did not see one single EV in use, anywhere, (including Pisa centre) or one single public charging point - do the Italians know something we don't or are they simply stubborn?
Otherwise, as a rural dweller, my trusty 3.0 TDI with 500 miles range and no hard earned capital tied up in it is perfect.
As a slight aside, I have just returned from 8 days in northern Italy and in that time I did not see one single EV in use, anywhere, (including Pisa centre) or one single public charging point - do the Italians know something we don't or are they simply stubborn?
As with any EV argument the answer is it depends on use case.
I have an EV I use almost purely for a commute which involves almost no 'twisties' or need for helmsmanship therefore the EV is ideal. All things being equal I would still choose the EV unless the running costs included an allowance for time wasted at petrol stations (real ones, not the ones where it takes some time to fill up, not the pretend ones that offer instant re-fill that people make up in EV threads).
On the other hand someone crashed into said EV the other week so I have a loan car with a smaller battery, at the weekend we went on a long trip (which the usual one would have managed no bother) and had to use public chargers. In this case, or any other where I had to use public charging more than say once a year, then ICE all the way
I have an EV I use almost purely for a commute which involves almost no 'twisties' or need for helmsmanship therefore the EV is ideal. All things being equal I would still choose the EV unless the running costs included an allowance for time wasted at petrol stations (real ones, not the ones where it takes some time to fill up, not the pretend ones that offer instant re-fill that people make up in EV threads).
On the other hand someone crashed into said EV the other week so I have a loan car with a smaller battery, at the weekend we went on a long trip (which the usual one would have managed no bother) and had to use public chargers. In this case, or any other where I had to use public charging more than say once a year, then ICE all the way
brillomaster said:
if the running costs were the same, then i'd have an ICE car. because ICE cars are far faster to fuel..
Are they though? If you can charge at home then filling up generally means putting a plug into a socket which takes a few seconds, compared to the time it takes to drive to a petrol station, wait for a pump, stand there while it fills up, pay, then drive home.
Even with occasional public charger use, surely most people would spend more of their time filling up an ICE car than charging an EV.
Whenever this comparison comes up I can't get the Smash Martians advert out of my head...
"on your last visit did you discover what the earth people drive"?
"they drive a great many of these" <picture of an ICE vehicle followed by sniggering from the martians>
"they fill them with dead dinosaurs to use as fuel" <raucous laughter >
"they drive them and enjoy the smell and vibrations" <martians pissing themselves with laughter>
"they are clearly a most primitive people " <martians rolling around on the floor>.
in a few years time EVs will charge much more quickly, have higher capacity batteries which are solid state & thus so much lighter.
by then, their uptake will have reached the tipping point whereby they're cheaper to make than ICE vehicles so ICE vehicles will be seen as quaint and suitable only Sunday drives or museums.
"on your last visit did you discover what the earth people drive"?
"they drive a great many of these" <picture of an ICE vehicle followed by sniggering from the martians>
"they fill them with dead dinosaurs to use as fuel" <raucous laughter >
"they drive them and enjoy the smell and vibrations" <martians pissing themselves with laughter>
"they are clearly a most primitive people " <martians rolling around on the floor>.
in a few years time EVs will charge much more quickly, have higher capacity batteries which are solid state & thus so much lighter.
by then, their uptake will have reached the tipping point whereby they're cheaper to make than ICE vehicles so ICE vehicles will be seen as quaint and suitable only Sunday drives or museums.
IF the engine in the ICE is even vaguely interesting - then ICE over EV.
However, if you're talking something like a boggo 2L diesel then it would be EV for me.
A lot of small N/A petrol engines are fun to trash, I'd prefer one of them over a similarly powered EV cost being the same.
I'm about to sell my M5 for a Tesla, purely as my overall costs will more than half. Idea is to save up and buy a toy outright and get out of the finance loop. EV will be on PCP though... too much risk in values.
However, if you're talking something like a boggo 2L diesel then it would be EV for me.
A lot of small N/A petrol engines are fun to trash, I'd prefer one of them over a similarly powered EV cost being the same.
I'm about to sell my M5 for a Tesla, purely as my overall costs will more than half. Idea is to save up and buy a toy outright and get out of the finance loop. EV will be on PCP though... too much risk in values.
I like the idea of the seamless silent power of an EV.
The vast majority of ICE engines are tedious drony things and I think we are over-romanticising ICE.
The issue with EV for me is not so much that they are electric, but I just don't like the design 'language'. I genuinely hanker after a Taycan or an e-tron GT, but there's nothing at the affordable end that I like, in the same way as I liked for example the E36 and E46 3 series coupe, Golf GTi, Focus RS or Audi TT.
To be fair though, I would levy the same accusation against modern ICE cars too, for the most part. Truly the worst era ever for styling and interior design.
The vast majority of ICE engines are tedious drony things and I think we are over-romanticising ICE.
The issue with EV for me is not so much that they are electric, but I just don't like the design 'language'. I genuinely hanker after a Taycan or an e-tron GT, but there's nothing at the affordable end that I like, in the same way as I liked for example the E36 and E46 3 series coupe, Golf GTi, Focus RS or Audi TT.
To be fair though, I would levy the same accusation against modern ICE cars too, for the most part. Truly the worst era ever for styling and interior design.
ICE because I like brum brum noises. If you’re not a powerfully built PH director of many business you can put a brand new top end electric car through and have a budget of say £20-30k, there’s zero fun or interesting electric cars at that price point compared to many many ICE cars I can get excited about.
if they have the same running cost (service, maintenance, fuel charge, tax, consumable cost etc)
same power/acceleration
same smooth auto
same one pedal drive ability
same refinement in noise and vibration
then i will got for ICE purely for fast refueling and longer range between refueling, since my commuting is dull motorway journey or city traffic jam with average less than 30mph
weekend toy i have now swap for a motorcycle as it have way lower running cost than anything remotely fun in 4 wheels
same power/acceleration
same smooth auto
same one pedal drive ability
same refinement in noise and vibration
then i will got for ICE purely for fast refueling and longer range between refueling, since my commuting is dull motorway journey or city traffic jam with average less than 30mph
weekend toy i have now swap for a motorcycle as it have way lower running cost than anything remotely fun in 4 wheels
Tye Green said:
Whenever this comparison comes up I can't get the Smash Martians advert out of my head...
"on your last visit did you discover what the earth people drive"?
"they drive a great many of these" <picture of an ICE vehicle followed by sniggering from the martians>
"they fill them with dead dinosaurs to use as fuel" <raucous laughter >
"they drive them and enjoy the smell and vibrations" <martians pissing themselves with laughter>
"they are clearly a most primitive people " <martians rolling around on the floor>.
in a few years time EVs will charge much more quickly, have higher capacity batteries which are solid state & thus so much lighter.
by then, their uptake will have reached the tipping point whereby they're cheaper to make than ICE vehicles so ICE vehicles will be seen as quaint and suitable only Sunday drives or museums.
Indeed a very good point."on your last visit did you discover what the earth people drive"?
"they drive a great many of these" <picture of an ICE vehicle followed by sniggering from the martians>
"they fill them with dead dinosaurs to use as fuel" <raucous laughter >
"they drive them and enjoy the smell and vibrations" <martians pissing themselves with laughter>
"they are clearly a most primitive people " <martians rolling around on the floor>.
in a few years time EVs will charge much more quickly, have higher capacity batteries which are solid state & thus so much lighter.
by then, their uptake will have reached the tipping point whereby they're cheaper to make than ICE vehicles so ICE vehicles will be seen as quaint and suitable only Sunday drives or museums.
Then again, I'm reminded of how everyone said that the laughably old fashioned way of listening to music, the vinyl LP, would be dead by the end of the 1980s after CD appeared. Yet here we are in 2024 and the only method of listening to music that has been growing steadily in sales for a good few years now involves dragging a rock through some plastic.
Newer is usually cheaper, more convenient, easier for mass production and fine for most people who don't really care about stuff (be that driving experience or sound quality) but it's not necessarily "better".
And to answer the OP's question - ICE, ta.
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