Reform UK - A symptom of all that is wrong?
Discussion
don'tbesilly said:
markh1973 said:
don'tbesilly said:
markh1973 said:
b
hstewie said:
hstewie said: People are carrying on as if the actor chap is the only issue here.
Take him out of things.
There's plenty of other filth both in that video and widely reported.
Plus we have Farage saying that the electorate should still vite for 3 candidates who are no longer Reform candidates in order to show support for Reform.Take him out of things.
There's plenty of other filth both in that video and widely reported.
So encouraging people to vote for people with obnoxious views in order to show support for a party that doesn't have obnoxious views.....
markh1973 said:
Plus we have Farage saying that the electorate should still vite for 3 candidates who are no longer Reform candidates in order to show support for Reform.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c727xz2kkgjoI haven't seen any of the other parties do what Reform have done here.
valiant said:
bhstewie said:
hstewie said: People are carrying on as if the actor chap is the only issue here.
Take him out of things.
There's plenty of other filth both in that video and widely reported.
Because it’s a crutch to hang onto that means that everything else can’t be questioned.Take him out of things.
There's plenty of other filth both in that video and widely reported.
Besides, aren’t C4 standing by their story? All I’ve seen is Reform and some amateur armchair sleuths putting 2+2 together and making their up answers from that.
It will all come out in the end no doubt and if C4 have been duped or conspired in some funny business then they’ll have to answer for that themselves but as there’s been no definitive answer yet yelling ‘conspiracy’ at this stage is very Trumpian.
NuckyThompson said:
The pissing on chips is a good analogy
No it's really not. The better analogy would be that we befriended someone the bully wanted to influence. The NATO expansion excuse is precisely that. b
ks used by Putin to justify his various invasions/incursions to try to maintain some level of cold war soviet influence.And Farage, or anyone else, trying to make out it's a reasonable course for Putin is giving support for his false justification.
Vasco said:
valiant said:
No they haven’t. It’s just the media are finally holding them to the same scrutiny as the other parties.
Reform and Farage have had a very easy ride since they formed. They were seen as a novelty, a disruption amd given far more airtime than their polling numbers merited at the time.
Now that polling numbers have climbed and Farage decided to stand, a more critical look has been taken. So we see their fantasy manifesto torn to shreds over its costing and implementation, we see remarks Farage made in the past questioned and him asked to explain them. We see the media hold his own party to account for the failings of some of its supporters and candidates and as we saw on QT the other night, pushed on policy (like the Marines comment) where he was asked to explain in detail how he would achieve his goals.
This is nothing more than what’s asked of the other parties and if Reform wants to be seen as a major force in British politics then it must be able to stand up and explain itself and not get into a hissy fit and scream “unfair” when a question or audience appear hostile.
If Reform wants to be seen more than just a fringe party then it seriously needs to get its st together. It lacks professionalism, organisation and detail. Now that the spotlight is on them to a greater degree, it has to able to handle proper scrutiny.
I would suggest that Reform has been 'scrutinised', attacked and rubbished by many people, many times - you've only got to read some of the twaddle on here to know that some Tory or Labour supporters will just never give up and let Reform have a chance to gain a few MPs, ready for 2029. Give them 5-10 MPs and see what they make of it - LibDems and Greens are largely a waste of space so let's see another Party come in and shake up the 2 main, but poor, alternatives.Reform and Farage have had a very easy ride since they formed. They were seen as a novelty, a disruption amd given far more airtime than their polling numbers merited at the time.
Now that polling numbers have climbed and Farage decided to stand, a more critical look has been taken. So we see their fantasy manifesto torn to shreds over its costing and implementation, we see remarks Farage made in the past questioned and him asked to explain them. We see the media hold his own party to account for the failings of some of its supporters and candidates and as we saw on QT the other night, pushed on policy (like the Marines comment) where he was asked to explain in detail how he would achieve his goals.
This is nothing more than what’s asked of the other parties and if Reform wants to be seen as a major force in British politics then it must be able to stand up and explain itself and not get into a hissy fit and scream “unfair” when a question or audience appear hostile.
If Reform wants to be seen more than just a fringe party then it seriously needs to get its s
t together. It lacks professionalism, organisation and detail. Now that the spotlight is on them to a greater degree, it has to able to handle proper scrutiny.That doesn't suggest the party puts much effort into the candidates, just as the recent answer about how to return asylum seekers and the admission their contract isn't actually fiscally valid suggest a distinct lack of preparation by the party.
Tonberry said:
The desire for a reduction in immigration isn't inherently racist. There are many reasons (imagined or otherwise) why someone may want less people entering a country.
But taking issue with immigration based on the skin colour of those arriving is racist.
Racism isn't new, and we know that there are a lot of people in this country who despise ethnic minorities.
Nothing complex about it.
And this is where it gets tricky...But taking issue with immigration based on the skin colour of those arriving is racist.
Racism isn't new, and we know that there are a lot of people in this country who despise ethnic minorities.
Nothing complex about it.
Certain demographics of immigrants are a net drain on the country and are having a destructive effect of our society. Any entry from said demographic should obviously be highly restricted.
This should be done be nationality / status of course but the trouble is that nationality often has a high correlation with skin colour.
The right will say we're controlling based on nationality but the left with say it's on skin colour and therefore racist.
This is the problem with having the left and the right exist in different worlds entirely. With different meanings for the same words. Plus the way discourse is shut down and speech controlled these days, means we cant communicate to re-establish a shared reality.
markh1973 said:
don'tbesilly said:
markh1973 said:
don'tbesilly said:
markh1973 said:
bhstewie said:
hstewie said: People are carrying on as if the actor chap is the only issue here.
Take him out of things.
There's plenty of other filth both in that video and widely reported.
Plus we have Farage saying that the electorate should still vite for 3 candidates who are no longer Reform candidates in order to show support for Reform.Take him out of things.
There's plenty of other filth both in that video and widely reported.
So encouraging people to vote for people with obnoxious views in order to show support for a party that doesn't have obnoxious views.....
markh1973 said:
Plus we have Farage saying that the electorate should still vite for 3 candidates who are no longer Reform candidates in order to show support for Reform.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c727xz2kkgjoI haven't seen any of the other parties do what Reform have done here.
Mr Farage told the programme: "I want nothing to do with them."
Asked what Reform would say to voters in the constituencies where the candidates had been dropped, the party spokesman said he would “encourage them to vote for the party, by voting for these people on the ballot paper".
This way, he said people could still vote for Reform's "policy platform".
He added: "I’m not saying the situation is ideal, but the size of the Reform vote share nationally is what matters."
You won’t have seen any of the parties do similar things, you’re not looking. Xx xx
Bill said:
The NATO expansion excuse is precisely that. bks used by Putin to justify his various invasions/incursions to try to maintain some level of cold war soviet influence.
Sorry if I'm missing something but Isn't that what Farage said? Putin used the excuse of Nato / EU attempts at moving ever nearer as a threat to what he wants to get back to i.e. the old USSR, as an excuse to invade Ukraine?ks used by Putin to justify his various invasions/incursions to try to maintain some level of cold war soviet influence.rscott said:
Vasco said:
valiant said:
No they haven’t. It’s just the media are finally holding them to the same scrutiny as the other parties.
Reform and Farage have had a very easy ride since they formed. They were seen as a novelty, a disruption amd given far more airtime than their polling numbers merited at the time.
Now that polling numbers have climbed and Farage decided to stand, a more critical look has been taken. So we see their fantasy manifesto torn to shreds over its costing and implementation, we see remarks Farage made in the past questioned and him asked to explain them. We see the media hold his own party to account for the failings of some of its supporters and candidates and as we saw on QT the other night, pushed on policy (like the Marines comment) where he was asked to explain in detail how he would achieve his goals.
This is nothing more than what’s asked of the other parties and if Reform wants to be seen as a major force in British politics then it must be able to stand up and explain itself and not get into a hissy fit and scream “unfair” when a question or audience appear hostile.
If Reform wants to be seen more than just a fringe party then it seriously needs to get its st together. It lacks professionalism, organisation and detail. Now that the spotlight is on them to a greater degree, it has to able to handle proper scrutiny.
I would suggest that Reform has been 'scrutinised', attacked and rubbished by many people, many times - you've only got to read some of the twaddle on here to know that some Tory or Labour supporters will just never give up and let Reform have a chance to gain a few MPs, ready for 2029. Give them 5-10 MPs and see what they make of it - LibDems and Greens are largely a waste of space so let's see another Party come in and shake up the 2 main, but poor, alternatives.Reform and Farage have had a very easy ride since they formed. They were seen as a novelty, a disruption amd given far more airtime than their polling numbers merited at the time.
Now that polling numbers have climbed and Farage decided to stand, a more critical look has been taken. So we see their fantasy manifesto torn to shreds over its costing and implementation, we see remarks Farage made in the past questioned and him asked to explain them. We see the media hold his own party to account for the failings of some of its supporters and candidates and as we saw on QT the other night, pushed on policy (like the Marines comment) where he was asked to explain in detail how he would achieve his goals.
This is nothing more than what’s asked of the other parties and if Reform wants to be seen as a major force in British politics then it must be able to stand up and explain itself and not get into a hissy fit and scream “unfair” when a question or audience appear hostile.
If Reform wants to be seen more than just a fringe party then it seriously needs to get its s
t together. It lacks professionalism, organisation and detail. Now that the spotlight is on them to a greater degree, it has to able to handle proper scrutiny.That doesn't suggest the party puts much effort into the candidates, just as the recent answer about how to return asylum seekers and the admission their contract isn't actually fiscally valid suggest a distinct lack of preparation by the party.
Bill said:
NuckyThompson said:
The pissing on chips is a good analogy
No it's really not. The better analogy would be that we befriended someone the bully wanted to influence. The NATO expansion excuse is precisely that. b
ks used by Putin to justify his various invasions/incursions to try to maintain some level of cold war soviet influence.And Farage, or anyone else, trying to make out it's a reasonable course for Putin is giving support for his false justification.
biggbn said:
VS, this is exactly the point I was making. In my opinion, Farage's comment was deliberately ambiguous so he can have the fall back position you allude to. Culture is a huge spectrum and is not only related to colour, religion or the other 'big hitters'. I'm sorry if I didn't male this clear. Farage is a skilled orator and is clearly advised well on what to say, when, and how far to go and he always leaves himself enough wriggle room for a hands up 'not me guv' impression of innocence.
But how does he become more accurate. When he says 'our' culture he is speaking to everybody who is not from Sunaks sphere if you like. If he said working man to include me he would exclude women or professionals etc. Maybe you could suggest a way he could have put the idea across without being necessarily vague so as to include everybody. As far as I can see it is only those who see racism in everything who are getting exercised about it while everyone else knew exactly what he meant.
I keep reading that not all reform voters are racist but all racists vote for reform. Is racism the only societal trait that we are considering here?
What about other low life's of society? the drug dealers, gun and knife criminals, petty thieves, muggers, squatters; the fraud benefit claimants and the feckless.
I suspect many of those won't vote but I am betting the majority of the ones that do will vote Labour.
What about other low life's of society? the drug dealers, gun and knife criminals, petty thieves, muggers, squatters; the fraud benefit claimants and the feckless.
I suspect many of those won't vote but I am betting the majority of the ones that do will vote Labour.
Vanden Saab said:
biggbn said:
VS, this is exactly the point I was making. In my opinion, Farage's comment was deliberately ambiguous so he can have the fall back position you allude to. Culture is a huge spectrum and is not only related to colour, religion or the other 'big hitters'. I'm sorry if I didn't male this clear. Farage is a skilled orator and is clearly advised well on what to say, when, and how far to go and he always leaves himself enough wriggle room for a hands up 'not me guv' impression of innocence.
But how does he become more accurate. When he says 'our' culture he is speaking to everybody who is not from Sunaks sphere if you like. If he said working man to include me he would exclude women or professionals etc. Maybe you could suggest a way he could have put the idea across without being necessarily vague so as to include everybody. As far as I can see it is only those who see racism in everything who are getting exercised about it while everyone else knew exactly what he meant.
Edited by biggbn on Sunday 30th June 11:24
I'm quite comfortable that saying Sunak "doesn't get normal people" is a lot less open to interpretation than someone who leads a party with many openly racist candidates and who's known for using dog-whistle language saying that a Prime Minister of Indian heritage doesn't get "our" culture.
President Merkin said:
OddCat said:
MDMetal said:
Equally trying to claim Farage is somehow Putin's chum because he wisely pointed out that giving a madman with a giant arm a reason to go to war might not be the best plan is somewhat akin to suggesting that telling your friend not to piss in the school bullys chips somehow makes him the bullys bestest chum
Brilliant ! 
Anyone who can't see this is being deliberately stupid.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-65644475
The primary instigator of these rumours was the journalist Carole Cadwalladr who is also the founder of the hard left activist group The Citizens who describe themselves as follows:
The Citizens said:
Experimental by design, we're finding new ways to hold power to account. Because the old ways are broken
https://the-citizens.com/Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff