Martial Art / Self Defence? What to choose?

[Stu78]

There's no correct answer. I've done a few different ones but now just focus on karate. However, we combine traditional Shukokai karate with other martial arts and self defence so it's a much more rounded martial art. Any of them of trained properly will give you benefit more than the vast majority of people out there, even learning nerve techniques and joint manipulation will give you advantages.

[biggbn]

DaveA8 said:

biggbn said:

The doors really give you a good grounding in situational awareness. It was my main job for 33 years before becoming a school teacher, the last dozen years or so of my career including designing and delivering conflict management and physical intervention programmes across Scotland so people could attain their SIA badges.

My brain always helped me more than my judo, mma, size and strength during my long career on the front door (I worked front doors from 17-50 years old)..

Fair play over 30yrs, I absolutely hated it but I had a new baby, my wife wasn’t working and the nice asst manager at Halifax made it clear if I defaulted on the mortgage he’d make sure we’d never get one again so off I went. I still don’t like Fridays all these years later.
I nearly got squirted with ammonia only that a colleague hit the guy as he took his hand out of his pocket, it’s odd as sometime later a guy who hadn’t been in with us got squirted, I can still recall the scene, he couldn’t scream but just gurgled and rolled around like a fish out of water.
To do 30 yrs plus is mind boggling

Edited by biggbn on Saturday 29th June 19:47

Man, I loved it!! That said, I was petrol bombed, people have tried to stab me several times, been glassed and bottled and involved in lots of agro over the years, attacked with swords and machetes once or twice.... Didn't love those bits...!! I feel blessed because I've only had two jobs over the years, I worked doors till I was fifty, got a degree in my forties and became a teacher at fifty. Wouldn't change a thing and my people skills are a huge strength BECAUSE of the doors, not in spite of it. My perfect night was chatting to people and us all going home safe....so I am on board 100% with those saying prevention and awareness is the best self defence!!

[ILikeCake]

s3pc1989 said:

Hi All,
I'm a very peaceable easy going chap, but warming to the idea of taking up some kind of martial art or similar.....but which one?? Primary motivations are fitness, bit of increased self confidence and hopefully having the knowledge that if I ever get into a confrontation, I should have some idea how to de-escalate, respond or protect myself.....?? To add, I'm rather late to the party being in my late 50's (although resonably fit) and not remotely interested in breaking bricks, kick boxing or similar.
There's a bewildering array of choices out there, so interested to hear any suggestions particularly from anyone at a similar stage in life.

Thanks all....

I've done all sorts over the years, but boxing the main draw. Never 'used' it though, never ran out of jokes.

In terms of which is best I'd say by far the most important thing is... Whichever club/gym you find the most fun! Realistically you'll need to go regularly, and you want it to be something you enjoy learning and the atmosphere is good.

I love boxing but stopping now as the local gym isn't an enjoyable place to train.

[biggbn]

ILikeCake said:

s3pc1989 said:

Hi All,
I'm a very peaceable easy going chap, but warming to the idea of taking up some kind of martial art or similar.....but which one?? Primary motivations are fitness, bit of increased self confidence and hopefully having the knowledge that if I ever get into a confrontation, I should have some idea how to de-escalate, respond or protect myself.....?? To add, I'm rather late to the party being in my late 50's (although resonably fit) and not remotely interested in breaking bricks, kick boxing or similar.
There's a bewildering array of choices out there, so interested to hear any suggestions particularly from anyone at a similar stage in life.

Thanks all....

I've done all sorts over the years, but boxing the main draw. Never 'used' it though, never ran out of jokes.

In terms of which is best I'd say by far the most important thing is... Whichever club/gym you find the most fun! Realistically you'll need to go regularly, and you want it to be something you enjoy learning and the atmosphere is good.

I love boxing but stopping now as the local gym isn't an enjoyable place to train.

Another brilliant answer.

[Acorn1]

I did Taekwando for many years from age 8, achieved my black belt at 14.

In my 40’s after doing nothing for years I started doing a boot camp and then discovered boxing.

Boxing is the answer.

[jdw100]

Acorn1 said:

I did Taekwando for many years from age 8, achieved my black belt at 14.

In my 40’s after doing nothing for years I started doing a boot camp and then discovered boxing.

Boxing is the answer.

I’ve sparred with some boxers. Wouldn’t want to fight one. Well, or anyone for that matter.

Boxers are used to fighting, adrenaline under control, not scared to be in front of someone etc.

However, my takeaway from it was if someone is clearly a boxer you can target legs and also they are not used to be pushed, pulled, rushed, kicked in the groin etc.

My first strike would always be eyes, throat or groin. Or, ideally, use something as a weapon. Legging it is top choice.

I used to train with two youngish ex-marine brothers. I don't think I ever landed a single effective strike on either of them in five years.

At 80% (with as much safety equipment on as poss) either could wipe the floor with everyone except our instructor. Big lads, young, fast, used to be in fighting mode and whatever the army trained them in….

Could be I’m just st at fighting. I’m a lover not a fighter baby …

[Hugo Stiglitz]

Late 50s? You would be better off avoiding figting full stop. You've avoided it - just enjoy life!

Fighting is a nutters game. People also use knives.

I've been in a few situations alone. My body mass combined with the ability to take blows helped me.

Judo is good but very hard on your body plus if you go to the ground it's one place you do not want to be.


Boxing for fitness but leave street fighting to those with speed and youth

Edited by Hugo Stiglitz on Sunday 30th June 08:49

[Hoofy]

As an aside, I did JJ for 6 months a few years ago. It was good fun and really interesting to learn but one evening while yet again crawling back to my car after a class I wondered if it was a bit like being mugged twice a week, and if it would be cheaper and less painful if I was just mugged once or twice in my life instead of attending classes regularly and volunteering to be beaten up and mugged.

So... you're best off joining a running club (or hang out with fat people so they get set on while you make a get away).



Also, in "You lookin at my warthog missus"/"Did you spill my spritzer" situations, my original suggestion of learning Tai Chi is probably a valid one.

[DaveA8]

As a general thought on training especially anything grappling or going to the ground know your training partner and be sure that there is rules because the last thing anyone wants is to land on their head or neck and frankly over the years I both seen and occasionally experienced angry young men who for whatever reason move quickly from training to full on aggression and that can have life altering consequences.
The quality of a gym’s members is a direct correlation to the owner, I recall one place and the owner was a complete a***hole but extremely dangerous and he surrounded himself with similar people but an unsuspecting person could end up thinking all combat gyms are like that.

[wombleh]

biggbn said:

ILikeCake said:

s3pc1989 said:

Hi All,
I'm a very peaceable easy going chap, but warming to the idea of taking up some kind of martial art or similar.....but which one?? Primary motivations are fitness, bit of increased self confidence and hopefully having the knowledge that if I ever get into a confrontation, I should have some idea how to de-escalate, respond or protect myself.....?? To add, I'm rather late to the party being in my late 50's (although resonably fit) and not remotely interested in breaking bricks, kick boxing or similar.
There's a bewildering array of choices out there, so interested to hear any suggestions particularly from anyone at a similar stage in life.

Thanks all....

I've done all sorts over the years, but boxing the main draw. Never 'used' it though, never ran out of jokes.

In terms of which is best I'd say by far the most important thing is... Whichever club/gym you find the most fun! Realistically you'll need to go regularly, and you want it to be something you enjoy learning and the atmosphere is good.

I love boxing but stopping now as the local gym isn't an enjoyable place to train.

Another brilliant answer.

Yea I like that answer too.

I’d suggest “best” Is one that you can make a regular part of your life, so you keep going a few times a week for years. I’m not most experienced but tried a few places out and found they vary lots, some very traditional, some focus on sparring/grappling, some more fitness, worth trying a few to see what you like best.

[CheesecakeRunner]

s3pc1989 said:

Hi All,
I'm a very peaceable easy going chap, I should have some idea how to de-escalate, respond or protect myself.....?? To add, I'm rather late to the party being in my late 50's

I’d take up running.

Better for the heart than get stabbed in it. The best fight is one you don’t have.

[Louis Balfour]

Hoofy said:

As an aside, I did JJ for 6 months a few years ago. It was good fun and really interesting to learn but one evening while yet again crawling back to my car after a class I wondered if it was a bit like being mugged twice a week, and if it would be cheaper and less painful if I was just mugged once or twice in my life instead of attending classes regularly and volunteering to be beaten up and mugged.

So... you're best off joining a running club (or hang out with fat people so they get set on while you make a get away).



Also, in "You lookin at my warthog missus"/"Did you spill my spritzer" situations, my original suggestion of learning Tai Chi is probably a valid one.

One of my friends was a TKD Olympian. We got into a "situation" in Nottingham some years ago. I learned then that his TKD training allowed him to run faster than the rest of us.

[RSTurboPaul]

DaveA8 said:

As a general thought on training especially anything grappling or going to the ground know your training partner and be sure that there is rules because the last thing anyone wants is to land on their head or neck and frankly over the years I both seen and occasionally experienced angry young men who for whatever reason move quickly from training to full on aggression and that can have life altering consequences.
The quality of a gym’s members is a direct correlation to the owner, I recall one place and the owner was a complete a***hole but extremely dangerous and he surrounded himself with similar people but an unsuspecting person could end up thinking all combat gyms are like that.

Martial Arts can seem to attract 'those sort of people', however that is defined - from my experience, people/kids looking to feel in control and/or enjoying bullying drained the fun from a session.

[Register1]

Tai Chi is the best.
Teaches ballance and control

[ColdoRS]

RSTurboPaul said:

DaveA8 said:

As a general thought on training especially anything grappling or going to the ground know your training partner and be sure that there is rules because the last thing anyone wants is to land on their head or neck and frankly over the years I both seen and occasionally experienced angry young men who for whatever reason move quickly from training to full on aggression and that can have life altering consequences.
The quality of a gym’s members is a direct correlation to the owner, I recall one place and the owner was a complete a***hole but extremely dangerous and he surrounded himself with similar people but an unsuspecting person could end up thinking all combat gyms are like that.

Martial Arts can seem to attract 'those sort of people', however that is defined - from my experience, people/kids looking to feel in control and/or enjoying bullying drained the fun from a session.

I’ve always found ‘those sort of people’ (rough/violent/angry/unhappy), generally don’t last long in a martial arts gym. They either change very quickly as they realise they are a small fish in that room or they leave as their ego can’t handle being humbled.

[WestyCarl]

RSTurboPaul said:

DaveA8 said:

As a general thought on training especially anything grappling or going to the ground know your training partner and be sure that there is rules because the last thing anyone wants is to land on their head or neck and frankly over the years I both seen and occasionally experienced angry young men who for whatever reason move quickly from training to full on aggression and that can have life altering consequences.
The quality of a gym’s members is a direct correlation to the owner, I recall one place and the owner was a complete a***hole but extremely dangerous and he surrounded himself with similar people but an unsuspecting person could end up thinking all combat gyms are like that.

Martial Arts can seem to attract 'those sort of people', however that is defined - from my experience, people/kids looking to feel in control and/or enjoying bullying drained the fun from a session.

Not all, my son started kick boxing as a kid and now 18 is a black belt, the respect, support and friendliness shown during his journey was very inspiring.

[biggbn]

ColdoRS said:

RSTurboPaul said:

DaveA8 said:

As a general thought on training especially anything grappling or going to the ground know your training partner and be sure that there is rules because the last thing anyone wants is to land on their head or neck and frankly over the years I both seen and occasionally experienced angry young men who for whatever reason move quickly from training to full on aggression and that can have life altering consequences.
The quality of a gym’s members is a direct correlation to the owner, I recall one place and the owner was a complete a***hole but extremely dangerous and he surrounded himself with similar people but an unsuspecting person could end up thinking all combat gyms are like that.

Martial Arts can seem to attract 'those sort of people', however that is defined - from my experience, people/kids looking to feel in control and/or enjoying bullying drained the fun from a session.

I’ve always found ‘those sort of people’ (rough/violent/angry/unhappy), generally don’t last long in a martial arts gym. They either change very quickly as they realise they are a small fish in that room or they leave as their ego can’t handle being humbled.

100%, I'm sure there the odd exceptions but these very much prove the rule.

[Hoofy]

Louis Balfour said:

Hoofy said:

As an aside, I did JJ for 6 months a few years ago. It was good fun and really interesting to learn but one evening while yet again crawling back to my car after a class I wondered if it was a bit like being mugged twice a week, and if it would be cheaper and less painful if I was just mugged once or twice in my life instead of attending classes regularly and volunteering to be beaten up and mugged.

So... you're best off joining a running club (or hang out with fat people so they get set on while you make a get away).



Also, in "You lookin at my warthog missus"/"Did you spill my spritzer" situations, my original suggestion of learning Tai Chi is probably a valid one.

One of my friends was a TKD Olympian. We got into a "situation" in Nottingham some years ago. I learned then that his TKD training allowed him to run faster than the rest of us.

I always thought they could move their legs quickly.

[MaxFromage]

DaveA8 said:

I have a number of issues with Krav Maga or to be fair the few courses I experienced. I worked as a doorman for nearly 5 years in the early 90’s and have seen and been subjected to some horrible violence and gave a good bit back.
This is just my experience but anyone advocating grappling as a primary art for self defence does not under street confrontations, fights go to the ground but getting up is critical, I know of an incident where a random unconnected girl walked by and kicked the bloke on top in the eye, he lost his eye.
I’m mid 50’s and have trained on and off the nearly 40 years yet if I spar with my son who’s 17, he will beat me to the punch every time, it’s a matter of fact reactions drop massively with age but to remind him of danger I’ll close up and get in close where speed is not the king but precision is.
I worked with a guy who gouged someone’s eye out in a fight, Krav Maga will tell people to do that but 99% of normal people won’t so what’s the point in training it.
Situational awareness is key, at 7.30am today I was about to go into a Tesco with my wife and I heard shouting, I turned the trolley around and went back to the car but watched from a distance, it 3 people shop lifting getting out a a few staff sort of tussling, I waited until they left or in Lowndes Crescent where houses are £20m but I spied three guys having a heated conversation, they were near the pay machine, I said to the person with me why had the small guy not taken his left hand out of his pocket but was very animated, my friend told me I was paranoid, moments later the big aggressive guy was screaming as the little guy did a piston move with the knife.
We are not paid to be involved so unless it’s directly at you and an exit is not possible then avoid.
The law on self defence is more clear than the media portray but I know from both the door and an incident where I was not involved but one of a group ran at me and I hit them, the Police don’t take things at face value and rightly so. All the people mentioning Judo should consider the reasonableness of slamming someone onto a concrete floor and what a jury would make if it, same a chokeholds. Fights are horrible fast moving and unpredictable and best avoided as the other person may be better.
Context is important and not putting one’s self in a difficult situation is a good base.
For courses if you want to seriously understand street violence any of the protégés of Peter Consterdine or Geoff Thompson would be good.
Self defence and sport combat are different and ones not better but being able to batter someone is only one component of self defence, some others are legal, moral and financial.
None of this considers weapon's
I say this as it’s too easy get moderately proficient at something and then lose sight of the fact that the whole point is not fight. There was a study about new black belts in America and when they drilled down they found at a subconscious level they actually sort conflict to almost test themselves.

The Krav Maga I've learnt over nearly 10 years doesn't advocate the bad points you mention. It also advocates all the good points. Maybe I have a good instructor

The only time I've had to really use my KM was to calm down an angry white 'Mike Tyson' with 8 gold signet rings. The only way I'd have 'won' was probably by killing the guy and the odds wouldn't have been in my favour.

[simons123]

Muay Thai / Thai Boxing is the Ultimate Martial Art. Combines Boxing, kicking, knees and elbows. Done it for over 20 years and had many fights as a junior and then an adult. Easily the most effective in a street fight as well.

Some of these martial arts like Kung Fu and Karate are completely useless in a street fight and actually quite laughable how ineffective they actually are. Same with Taekwondo. Absolutely garbage martial art for street fighting and actually think some of them do more harm then good.

The main problem the generally non trained adult faces in a street fight is not knowing how to react when they get hit. If you are not used to being punched in the face then the general reaction is to panic, fall to the floor and most get knocked out from the impact of hitting there head on the floor, not the actual punch it self. If you know how to react when hit, then you are generally ahead of 99% of the general public.

In regards to the OP you are a bit old now, no offence, to do most martial arts. Ju-Jitsu would be alright but can cause a lot of injuries, Boxing is great but personally think you are too old now to keep up with the fitness demands required. So i'd stick to some low contact form of Karate, Kung Fu or something like that which isn't going to be too taxing on your body.

Edited by simons123 on Sunday 30th June 22:35

Edited by simons123 on Sunday 30th June 22:40