General Election July 2024
Discussion
There might be causation, but how do you control for the global behavioural study into mass exposure to portable electronic devices, economic insecurity, etc? It would to stupid to claim there are no bad effects but cannabis use has risen steeply without obviously causing a public health emergency, what issues that do arise seem associated with the lack of standards and quality, particularly strains bred for high THC content and lacking in CBD and CBN which some argue control the effects of the THC.
hidetheelephants said:
There might be causation, but how do you control for the global behavioural study into mass exposure to portable electronic devices, economic insecurity, etc? It would to stupid to claim there are no bad effects but cannabis use has risen steeply without obviously causing a public health emergency, what issues that do arise seem associated with the lack of standards and quality, particularly strains bred for high THC content and lacking in CBD and CBN which some argue control the effects of the THC.
Indeed you can’t isolate it from anything else. pingu393 said:
This is like blaming the referee for correctly interpreting stupid laws in the Germany Denmark game, but in reverse.
The laws and limits are obviously there, but not being enforced.
California recognises that a big driver for the illicit trade is down to the taxes imposed. They're trying enforce the illegal trade but overwhelmed and citizens threatened by illegal operations operating openly with impunity.The laws and limits are obviously there, but not being enforced.
Someone called it magic money tree, but it really isn't such.
They're even starting to say that legalisation has failed.
It's a s
t show frankly. So someone holding up California as a wonderful trailblazer is just risible.https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2022-09-2...
NuckyThompson said:
blueg33 said:
What about less serious mental illness. We are seeing big rises in anxiety and depression.
Social media and the press will be a large cause of that. Every day the daily mail tell me Meghan markle is out to ruin my life and it depresses me
The point was that you can’t prove there is no connection.
FiF said:
It's a st show frankly. So someone holding up California as a wonderful trailblazer is just risible.
Is anyone doing that or are you using it as a strawman? At most I've commented that other states who have already decriminalised or legalised cannabis, whether for recreational or medicinal use, are a source of data that can inform decisions made about what to do here in the UK.t show frankly. So someone holding up California as a wonderful trailblazer is just risible.hidetheelephants said:
There might be causation, but how do you control for the global behavioural study into mass exposure to portable electronic devices, economic insecurity, etc? It would to stupid to claim there are no bad effects but cannabis use has risen steeply without obviously causing a public health emergency, what issues that do arise seem associated with the lack of standards and quality, particularly strains bred for high THC content and lacking in CBD and CBN which some argue control the effects of the THC.
We've already identified that what research has been done is on a very narrow range of active compounds and such research, as always has identified causes for concerns with further longer term studies needed.Then you rightly raise the issue of new strains to which one needs to add no control of growing conditions and use of chemicals to promote rop yields. No knowledge of the effects of these.
Then there's the real world example that despite attempting to legalisation and control it the legal market can be swamped by illicit trade and growers to the extent that those trying to operate legally are driven out of business.
To illustrate scale of problem just one county has 800+ certified and legal grow sites of 1 acre. It's estimated that same county has thousands of illegal grow sites. Unregulated, selling who knows what with unknown consequences for users, can only be dealt with by a war on drugs. Wasn't it argued that legalisation would end that?
hidetheelephants said:
FiF said:
It's a st show frankly. So someone holding up California as a wonderful trailblazer is just risible.
Is anyone doing that or are you using it as a strawman? At most I've commented that other states who have already decriminalised or legalised cannabis, whether for recreational or medicinal use, are a source of data that can inform decisions made about what to do here in the UK.t show frankly. So someone holding up California as a wonderful trailblazer is just risible.By the way I wasn't the one who originally held up California as a shining light. So it's no strawman. Jog on with that accusation
Yet we've just had a reprise of the "It's all the fault of the Daily Mail" twaddle.
FiF said:
By the way I wasn't the one who originally held up California as a shining light. So it's no strawman. Jog on with that accusation
I don't know about any other threads running this subject but other than Pingu linking to an article about tax collection issues in California you are the only one mentioning it.FiF said:
Yet we've just had a reprise of the "It's all the fault of the Daily Mail" twaddle.
Blunkett reduced the classification of cannabis due to it not being sufficiently harmful to remain class B because he followed the advice of the ACMD etc, later Smith raised it again because of hysterical fear of tabloid headlines, the science had remained the same. Most of the ACMD resigned as a result of this decision. I don't know how to interpret this data any other way.Edited by hidetheelephants on Sunday 30th June 09:46
Mr Penguin said:
A must read column
https://www.thetimes.com/comment/columnists/articl...
You beat me to it! It is a must read and sums up my views pretty well. I was only saying similar to a friend last night.https://www.thetimes.com/comment/columnists/articl...
The issue is that change is unlikely to happen in the short term
Mr Penguin said:
A must read column
https://www.thetimes.com/comment/columnists/articl...
Here's a better one with the inbuilt advantage of not being written by a retired ping pong player.https://www.thetimes.com/comment/columnists/articl...
https://www.thetimes.com/comment/the-times-view/ar...
Mr Penguin said:
A must read column
https://www.thetimes.com/comment/columnists/articl...
A very good article.https://www.thetimes.com/comment/columnists/articl...
Anybody who is interested should (and probably does, even if they pretend otherwise) already know what this article is talking about.
Governments need to tax more, even those well-off PHers who are still Tory supporters or thinking that Reform sounds like sensible chaps.
hidetheelephants said:
FiF said:
By the way I wasn't the one who originally held up California as a shining light. So it's no strawman. Jog on with that accusation
I don't know about any other threads running this subject but other than Pingu linking to an article about tax collection issues in California you are the only one mentioning it.FiF said:
Yet we've just had a reprise of the "It's all the fault of the Daily Mail" twaddle.
Blunkett reduced the classification of cannabis due to it not being sufficiently harmful to remain class B because he followed the advice of the ACMD etc, later Smith raised it again because of hysterical fear of tabloid headlines, the science had remained the same. Most of the ACMD resigned as a result of this decision. I don't know how to interpret this data any other way.Edited by hidetheelephants on Sunday 30th June 09:46
Blunkett was Home Sec from 2001 to 2004. So 20 years ago.
Smith Home Sec from. 2007-2009, so 15 years ago.
Strains, strength and availability have moved on.
The ACMD resigned over the sacking of David Nutt who observed that cannabis, MDMA and LSD were less harmful than tobacco and alcohol. Their protest was over their independence being questioned, yet in the same breath some members admitted that "ministers were ignoring ACMD advice, yet they have the democratic and legal right to do so,..."
Additionally there were complaints that although the Govt had accepted their recommendation about research into opioid substitution therapy, in practice funding was cut and deaths continued to climb. There have also been issues over appointing suitably qualified candidates based on questionable Twitter output. As always it's the politics and the money that gets in the way and muddies the waters.
However in the interest of balance there is also little evidence in isolation that supports law enforcement as the tool of choice. Though commit one offence, what else are you up to? So often the case.
FiF said:
They're even starting to say that legalisation has failed.
It's a st show frankly. So someone holding up California as a wonderful trailblazer is just risible.
https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2022-09-2...
I suppose the issue is whether prohibition would be better or worse. No one I think can reasonably argue the latter has been a success either so flawed as legalisation might be, I’m not sure it isn’t the least bad compromise and that goes for drugs in general in many respects imo.It's a s
t show frankly. So someone holding up California as a wonderful trailblazer is just risible.https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2022-09-2...
President Merkin said:
Mr Penguin said:
A must read column
https://www.thetimes.com/comment/columnists/articl...
Here's a better one with the inbuilt advantage of not being written by a retired ping pong player.https://www.thetimes.com/comment/columnists/articl...
https://www.thetimes.com/comment/the-times-view/ar...
They talk of taxing and investing to build our future, and I agree with that, but to build and maintain anything, you need human resources as well as materials. At the moment, we are not creating enough new human resources and we are allowing too many of the ones we've got to retire too early, so immigration - which clearly isn't a permanent fix - is currently the only option we have.
Too many people take the view that they can get to 55 and retire because they've saved up enough to be able to buy the services they need, but if they're going to live maybe 40 years in retirement, who is going to provide those services? They may think now that they'll be able to afford to pay a plumber or mechanic in 30 years, but if we have another 30 years of failing to produce enough children will they? Or will there be so few working people left that if you can even find one, a plumber is going to cost you 5x what it does today in real terms? The saddest part, of course, is that it'll be those who did raise children who end up having to work longer, retire later and have less to live on, but what is the chance of anyone childless acknowledging that? We can only pay others to create resources - be they human or otherwise - for so long before the supply runs out.
The other thing I think we need to start doing as a matter of urgency is recognising people's value to society - whether they're born here or are immigrants - by something other than their pay packet. Requiring an immigrant to have a minimum salary of £38,700 is just a bad joke! So what if someone is earning £38,700? They're paying less than £7.5k in income tax and NI, so their taxes are hardly going to pull us out of the mire, are they? Bring in someone as a carer or nursery nurse, a teacher or a medical nurse, however, and even if they're only earning minimum wage, they're going to be contributing far, far more to the economy of the country in £25k a year than they ever could if they were on £75k because they'll be helping to shape our future generations and/or freeing up multiple other people to return to the workplace and generate way more value.
Unless we find a way for everyone to contribute their fair share to making our society successfully, we are truly beyond salvation.
bhstewie said:
hstewie said: What the fk 
https://x.com/Gabriel_Pogrund/status/1807335824230...
Tory student group apologises after members ‘danced to Nazi song’
Unbelievable, what are they teaching in schools and universities these days to end up with people like this. k https://x.com/Gabriel_Pogrund/status/1807335824230...
Tory student group apologises after members ‘danced to Nazi song’
FiF said:
pingu393 said:
This is like blaming the referee for correctly interpreting stupid laws in the Germany Denmark game, but in reverse.
The laws and limits are obviously there, but not being enforced.
California recognises that a big driver for the illicit trade is down to the taxes imposed. They're trying enforce the illegal trade but overwhelmed and citizens threatened by illegal operations operating openly with impunity.The laws and limits are obviously there, but not being enforced.
Someone called it magic money tree, but it really isn't such.
They're even starting to say that legalisation has failed.
It's a s
t show frankly. So someone holding up California as a wonderful trailblazer is just risible.https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2022-09-2...
Cannabis could be the money tree in the same way that tobacco is.
Like it, or not, people will smoke tobacco and it will cost the NHS £3Bn to deal with the consequences. Tobacco taxes bring in £9Bn.
Again, like it, or not, people will use cannabis. If it costs California less than $1Bn to deal with the problems of cannabis, Puff's a magic
. Even if it doesn't, it will be $1Bn cheaper to deal with.Gassing Station | News, Politics & Economics | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff