Starter bloody starter
Discussion
Phil_D said:
Supateg said:
Out of interest…Do they weigh the same?
Ta
Good question and I don't know, it didn't feel that much heavier but TBH I wasn't really thinking about it. Ta
gruffalo said:
Phil_D said:
Supateg said:
Out of interest…Do they weigh the same?
Ta
Good question and I don't know, it didn't feel that much heavier but TBH I wasn't really thinking about it. Ta
The new one spins the engine so quickly compared to the old it is like chalk and cheese.
I missed all the very interesting updates to this thread, I gave up & bought another Cerb to borrow the starter from so got a bit distracted from the issue but I would still like to have two working starters (the new Cerb needs one back).
I did post it on facebook but here's a video I got of the pinion not engaging with the ring gear: https://youtu.be/ofWvEkba8tg?si=5_IiuWLtr_ixnWaO Sorry the quality isn't great, better viewed in a smaller window or phone screen.
That video is of the "new" starter on the right. It was newly fitted to the green Cerb just before I bought it, but I had issues with just clicking & not spinning very quickly. I fell into the trap ukkid did with testing the solenoid with the starter off the car & thought it was duff because it could hardly move the piston, not realising about the second lot of windings.
I did find that https://londonessexautoelectrics.co.uk/ can still supply solenoids, so ordered one from them, it's fitted in this picture:
However that new solenoid didn't help at all, the video is of it after being fitted, it was much the same before. The previous (actually new) solenoid looked just like the new one in the picture.
The old starter has a much bigger solenoid:
I ended up sending the whole new starter off to londonessexautoelectrics, they tested every electrical part of it (they were sure it would have a duff field coil causing the intermittent working) but they couldn't find anything wrong with it & just told me what I already knew - that it works fine on the bench. The problem as others have found only comes when you put it in the car.
That old starter generally works well, it did make me wonder if these new smaller solenoids weren't up to the job?
I tried swapping the clutch units over but the problem stayed with the new starter & smaller solenoid.
I tried the two starters in the two different Cerbs, the problem moved with the new starter to either car.
I'm still struggling to understand how a more powerful solenoid can help though, the pinion is on a helix that rotates it as it comes out, I can't see how the speed it comes out at can make any difference as it's on a fixed path & can only rotate so much before the flats of the teeth on the ring gear smash into the flats on the pinion - as they often do in my video. It makes no sense, I can't fathom how it works at all! All the info on the net seems to be about bendix starters that start the pinion spinning before trying to engage, if the pinion is moving at a reasonable speed it would catch on the teeth, stop then engage, but in that short distance there is in my video, the helix hardly has time to rotate the pinion at all
As stated earlier in the thread, the pinion has to be fully engaged before the contacts are made to spin the motor with these starters.
Those new wasp starters look lovely but there is no way in hell I'm forking out £900 odd for one!
The dry lube sounds good, any other ideas for cheapskates like me?
I did post it on facebook but here's a video I got of the pinion not engaging with the ring gear: https://youtu.be/ofWvEkba8tg?si=5_IiuWLtr_ixnWaO Sorry the quality isn't great, better viewed in a smaller window or phone screen.
That video is of the "new" starter on the right. It was newly fitted to the green Cerb just before I bought it, but I had issues with just clicking & not spinning very quickly. I fell into the trap ukkid did with testing the solenoid with the starter off the car & thought it was duff because it could hardly move the piston, not realising about the second lot of windings.
I did find that https://londonessexautoelectrics.co.uk/ can still supply solenoids, so ordered one from them, it's fitted in this picture:
However that new solenoid didn't help at all, the video is of it after being fitted, it was much the same before. The previous (actually new) solenoid looked just like the new one in the picture.
The old starter has a much bigger solenoid:
I ended up sending the whole new starter off to londonessexautoelectrics, they tested every electrical part of it (they were sure it would have a duff field coil causing the intermittent working) but they couldn't find anything wrong with it & just told me what I already knew - that it works fine on the bench. The problem as others have found only comes when you put it in the car.
That old starter generally works well, it did make me wonder if these new smaller solenoids weren't up to the job?
I tried swapping the clutch units over but the problem stayed with the new starter & smaller solenoid.
I tried the two starters in the two different Cerbs, the problem moved with the new starter to either car.
I'm still struggling to understand how a more powerful solenoid can help though, the pinion is on a helix that rotates it as it comes out, I can't see how the speed it comes out at can make any difference as it's on a fixed path & can only rotate so much before the flats of the teeth on the ring gear smash into the flats on the pinion - as they often do in my video. It makes no sense, I can't fathom how it works at all! All the info on the net seems to be about bendix starters that start the pinion spinning before trying to engage, if the pinion is moving at a reasonable speed it would catch on the teeth, stop then engage, but in that short distance there is in my video, the helix hardly has time to rotate the pinion at all
As stated earlier in the thread, the pinion has to be fully engaged before the contacts are made to spin the motor with these starters.
Those new wasp starters look lovely but there is no way in hell I'm forking out £900 odd for one!
The dry lube sounds good, any other ideas for cheapskates like me?
ukkid35 said:
Sorry you've had such a difficult journey with this
You can be sure I will be paying close attention as you hopefully resolve the issues you've discovered
Did a new clutch get yours working? You can be sure I will be paying close attention as you hopefully resolve the issues you've discovered
Alas Race Proved can't get new starter clutches anymore, I rang to check, their supplier stopped as they were the only ones buying them & it wasn't worth the bother apparently
I was sure the clutch & or pinon must have been the issue as it was the pinion not engaging that was the problem, as I couldn't get just a clutch I used that as a week excuse to get the next project Cerb, it did give me a working starter though!
Very confusingly swapping the clutch units over made no difference, the problem remained with the new starter, both clutches worked fine in the old starter.
It would seem to point to an issue with the new solenoid or something about the body of the new (actually remanufactured) starter.
That company I found can usually rebuild the solenoids, I will ask them about the size difference. I'm worried about the size of the straws I'm grasping at though....
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