Garage wrecked my Range Rover engine… please help
Discussion
A.J.M said:
Am I the only one wondering why a “Land Rover specialist” would take the word of a non Land Rover specialist garage as 100% gospel without doing any investigation work themselves to make 100% they were correct?
That would add another couple of hours to the bill. I wonder if that was a factor. Horrible position to be in for the OP and I can see that she is feeling backed into a corner and desperately hoping for someone to tell her that she has a chance of proving negligence on the part of the second garage. With each post telling her that she was out of luck, the boulder in the pit of her stomach was growing heavier, and then the more unpleasant posts would have been too much to bear.
I'm a DIY mechanic only, but it's clear to me that the engine sustained serious damage before it ever got to garage 2. It doesn't matter that it was only 10 minutes down the road - catastrophic damage can be caused in only one rotation of the engine under power. The damage is done, and there are only three* ways forward as I see it:
1. Sell the car for parts.
2. Have it trailered to Wales so that Escy can work his magic on it. We need another epic thread.
3. Have it trailered to Germany so that Christian and Vera from LR time can have at it. Although they don't seem short of video content!
[*] There are many more options
I'm a DIY mechanic only, but it's clear to me that the engine sustained serious damage before it ever got to garage 2. It doesn't matter that it was only 10 minutes down the road - catastrophic damage can be caused in only one rotation of the engine under power. The damage is done, and there are only three* ways forward as I see it:
1. Sell the car for parts.
2. Have it trailered to Wales so that Escy can work his magic on it. We need another epic thread.
3. Have it trailered to Germany so that Christian and Vera from LR time can have at it. Although they don't seem short of video content!
[*] There are many more options
poppopbangbang said:
It's likely jumped timing on one bank due to the slack chains, the "running like a tractor" was where the damage had already occured, likely a bent valve/s
They'll have wanted to compression test it to confirm this.
Unfortunately one valve will have broken as a result of continuing to run it, it will have locked up due to the remains of this valve stopping the piston in the cylinder it dropped in reaching TDC.
It was already a head off job by the time it got there and likely an engine given the probable damage to the piston crown in the failed cylinder. Continuing to run it for diagnostics or any other reason has increased the amount of damage present once the head/s was/were off but it would have been rebuild or replace time regardless the second it started misfiring.
Edited to add: Well that post was mostly pointless then
Is the winning answer. But OP is gone. PH is a funny place - you get a range of answers on things ranging from absolute bollards through to free diagnosis from an ex Formula One guy. The problem is that it’s not obvious who is who They'll have wanted to compression test it to confirm this.
Unfortunately one valve will have broken as a result of continuing to run it, it will have locked up due to the remains of this valve stopping the piston in the cylinder it dropped in reaching TDC.
It was already a head off job by the time it got there and likely an engine given the probable damage to the piston crown in the failed cylinder. Continuing to run it for diagnostics or any other reason has increased the amount of damage present once the head/s was/were off but it would have been rebuild or replace time regardless the second it started misfiring.
Edited to add: Well that post was mostly pointless then
gazza285 said:
Am I the daft one? I presumed that when the engine was rotated backwards by hand, the first bank of cylinders became out of timing, then when the garage tried to run the engine for the compression test the damage occurred. It wouldn’t only have the starter turning it over, but the other four cylinders would be driving it as well, more than enough force to break the valves…
I agree.If everyone is telling the truth, it's likely that rotating the engine backwards has skipped the chain a couple of teeth, yeah.
I don't know these engines specifically, but chain tensioners are normally putting pressure on the non-drive side of the chain. If you turn the crank in reverse, the chain straightens out on the non drive side, pushing back against the tensioner - if the valvetrain is already damaged, the tension will be higher, and the chain will straighten/push back the tensioner more before the cam moves.
Trouble is, while this is happening, the crank is feeding more chain round to the drive side, and particularly if it's already loose/stretched, it can bunch up enough that when you then try and rotate the engine the right way, it skips a few teeth before taking up the slack again, and the timing relationship between the crank and cam is now way out.
So if you try and start it up, without finding that out by hand first, bang, pistons into valves.
Julian Thompson said:
poppopbangbang said:
It's likely jumped timing on one bank due to the slack chains, the "running like a tractor" was where the damage had already occured, likely a bent valve/s
They'll have wanted to compression test it to confirm this.
Unfortunately one valve will have broken as a result of continuing to run it, it will have locked up due to the remains of this valve stopping the piston in the cylinder it dropped in reaching TDC.
It was already a head off job by the time it got there and likely an engine given the probable damage to the piston crown in the failed cylinder. Continuing to run it for diagnostics or any other reason has increased the amount of damage present once the head/s was/were off but it would have been rebuild or replace time regardless the second it started misfiring.
Edited to add: Well that post was mostly pointless then
Is the winning answer. But OP is gone. PH is a funny place - you get a range of answers on things ranging from absolute bollards through to free diagnosis from an ex Formula One guy. The problem is that it’s not obvious who is who They'll have wanted to compression test it to confirm this.
Unfortunately one valve will have broken as a result of continuing to run it, it will have locked up due to the remains of this valve stopping the piston in the cylinder it dropped in reaching TDC.
It was already a head off job by the time it got there and likely an engine given the probable damage to the piston crown in the failed cylinder. Continuing to run it for diagnostics or any other reason has increased the amount of damage present once the head/s was/were off but it would have been rebuild or replace time regardless the second it started misfiring.
Edited to add: Well that post was mostly pointless then
Where else could I be talking to an airline pilot one minute and touring car champion the next
swisstoni said:
Presumably the £10k estimate is for a replacement engine plus fitting.
There must be some outfits able to rebuild the existing engine?
It won’t be cheap but I’d hope it would that could come in at less than £10k?
Most of the price is in the labour. You only need the engine less ancillaries, about £4k for that plus their markup. May as well do the rear main seal, gaskets etc as a matter of course, plus factor in replacing any other suspect or broken parts whilst you’re in there (hoses, egr valves etc). Will also need all the fluids and an additional oil change after 500miles just to be sure. There must be some outfits able to rebuild the existing engine?
It won’t be cheap but I’d hope it would that could come in at less than £10k?
I’ve done one (5.0sc) recently and the invoice was 11k but did include some non engine work and a reasonable discount as it seemed ridiculous for a car worth less than that (L320). The customer told me the dealer quoted him 50k.
pinchmeimdreamin said:
Indeed, but if you just ignore or take the digs in jest then eventually you will normally get advice from people who know exactly what they are talking about.
Where else could I be talking to an airline pilot one minute and touring car champion the next
Indeed, I continue to be amazed at the breadth of knowledge and the willingness to share it on here.Where else could I be talking to an airline pilot one minute and touring car champion the next
My only contribution is to try and say thank you occasionally.
So, here's another one.
Thank You Piston Headers for educating me on a daily basis.
A.J.M said:
Am I the only one wondering why a “Land Rover specialist” would take the word of a non Land Rover specialist garage as 100% gospel without doing any investigation work themselves to make 100% they were correct?
They did though, OP was sent a video showing the slack timing chain. I’m amazed any garage undertook any work without their own diagnostics. Especially on an 5l RR. Any respectable garage wants a diagnostics first in case something goes tits up or the info is dud. unscrupulous ones want to charge their diagnostics fee first even if they suspect the info is right.
Sounds like the OP has been unlucky. I would definitely be looking for the cheapest option to get the thing running then get shot of it.
Sounds like the OP has been unlucky. I would definitely be looking for the cheapest option to get the thing running then get shot of it.
nosha123 said:
I think I'm done thanks chaps... thanks!
I can tell I'm in a very male dominated environment by the tone of the majority of these posts... (not all I hasten to add but the grown ups seem to be in the minority here)
A lot of you seem to come on here to take the piss and belittle people, in an effort to make you feel better about your own day and to boost your egos.
That isn't an environment I enjoy being around... so thanks for your contributions... I was hoping - given the name of the site - that some of you might have technical engine experience and could verbalise that - but a lot of you resorted to cheap shots and sarcasm.. which I think says a lot about you...
Byeeeeeeee
(oh and just a little tip from a female who you probably perceive as dumb and stupid, and out of my depth... if you have nothing nice to say.. then shut the f
k up)
She nailed that one.I can tell I'm in a very male dominated environment by the tone of the majority of these posts... (not all I hasten to add but the grown ups seem to be in the minority here)
A lot of you seem to come on here to take the piss and belittle people, in an effort to make you feel better about your own day and to boost your egos.
That isn't an environment I enjoy being around... so thanks for your contributions... I was hoping - given the name of the site - that some of you might have technical engine experience and could verbalise that - but a lot of you resorted to cheap shots and sarcasm.. which I think says a lot about you...
Byeeeeeeee
(oh and just a little tip from a female who you probably perceive as dumb and stupid, and out of my depth... if you have nothing nice to say.. then shut the f
k up)pinchmeimdreamin said:
Julian Thompson said:
poppopbangbang said:
It's likely jumped timing on one bank due to the slack chains, the "running like a tractor" was where the damage had already occured, likely a bent valve/s
They'll have wanted to compression test it to confirm this.
Unfortunately one valve will have broken as a result of continuing to run it, it will have locked up due to the remains of this valve stopping the piston in the cylinder it dropped in reaching TDC.
It was already a head off job by the time it got there and likely an engine given the probable damage to the piston crown in the failed cylinder. Continuing to run it for diagnostics or any other reason has increased the amount of damage present once the head/s was/were off but it would have been rebuild or replace time regardless the second it started misfiring.
Edited to add: Well that post was mostly pointless then
Is the winning answer. But OP is gone. PH is a funny place - you get a range of answers on things ranging from absolute bollards through to free diagnosis from an ex Formula One guy. The problem is that it’s not obvious who is who They'll have wanted to compression test it to confirm this.
Unfortunately one valve will have broken as a result of continuing to run it, it will have locked up due to the remains of this valve stopping the piston in the cylinder it dropped in reaching TDC.
It was already a head off job by the time it got there and likely an engine given the probable damage to the piston crown in the failed cylinder. Continuing to run it for diagnostics or any other reason has increased the amount of damage present once the head/s was/were off but it would have been rebuild or replace time regardless the second it started misfiring.
Edited to add: Well that post was mostly pointless then
Where else could I be talking to an airline pilot one minute and touring car champion the next
Come onto open forums ask advice and get a strop when you don’t like the answer.
I for one did not know or assume the OP was female there was nothing in the post to suggest a sex, so why would the OP bring that up when she dooes not like what is said, because that is todays society, totally woke.
Yes sarcasm and disrespect in posts is common in here, that’s life move on, but to be fair almost all the posts in my opinion in this topic were helpfully and constructive.
Unfortunately bad things happen in life which includes broken cars, why do people always seek to blame someone, it’s life unless there is an obvious f@@@ up which from what I have read there has not been, move on deal with as best you can.
Don’t come to an open forum seeking advice and then get a strop on when you don’t what’s said
I for one did not know or assume the OP was female there was nothing in the post to suggest a sex, so why would the OP bring that up when she dooes not like what is said, because that is todays society, totally woke.
Yes sarcasm and disrespect in posts is common in here, that’s life move on, but to be fair almost all the posts in my opinion in this topic were helpfully and constructive.
Unfortunately bad things happen in life which includes broken cars, why do people always seek to blame someone, it’s life unless there is an obvious f@@@ up which from what I have read there has not been, move on deal with as best you can.
Don’t come to an open forum seeking advice and then get a strop on when you don’t what’s said
OP was already halfway into the flounce after just a handful of helpful/polite/matter-of-fact replies.
Two posters then correct her statement that the car has a turbo and she goes 'full strop'.
Not understanding the difference between turbocharging and supercharging is fine, but to double down on it and flounce in a huff tells me the 'bloody men' thing was simply a matter of time.
Happy to be put straight by OP is she wants to re-engage.
Two posters then correct her statement that the car has a turbo and she goes 'full strop'.
Not understanding the difference between turbocharging and supercharging is fine, but to double down on it and flounce in a huff tells me the 'bloody men' thing was simply a matter of time.
Happy to be put straight by OP is she wants to re-engage.
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