The Ultimate Sierra Cosworth?
Discussion
aeropilot said:
I know accountants struggle with such a concept, but go on try it, you might be surprised, and it might not just be wind.
That's twice you've tried to make this personal. I'd quit with the ad-hominem stereotypes before you start sounding like a bitter old man who just wants to drag others down into his misery....or is it just that you've realised you've bought into the wrong cars and this 'unemotional accountant' has a better car than you?
aeropilot said:
I spend most of my working life arguing the toss with bloody bean counters, and this is starting to feel to much like work now.
Why? Losing again? 
Your only argument against mine is "I like older cars, I don't like newer cars, people buy older cars based on an emotional connection, not on reason." Which sounds like a big attempt at self-justification after the fact, and REALLY doesn't sound like you think the Cossie is that great to drive after all.
People buy cars for all sorts of reasons, and for people like us (petrolheads - a broad church, thankfully) a lot is down to how they drive, how they sound, how they look and how they make you feel. From where I'm standing a souped-up 80s repmobile with a bad bodykit, a dull-sounding, laggy engine, gnarly gearbox and mediocre brakes doesn't REALLY sound all that attractive...
Mark A S said:
...and not forgetting the Lotus Sunbeam 
Havoc Said "Drove one of them...ridiculously soft suspension (and handling), but gloriously tail-happy and a stonking engine note.The owner was very unimpressed though when he couldn't get away from my Mk1 Focus diesel (the 1.7 8v version). And he was probably a better driver than me at the time."
Probably a standard LS you drove then. Yep, in standard form they were not a great handing car as they were set up to "help" owners not disappear off the road backwards
Fit an LSD, set of billies, lowered springs and the car is transformed.
My current one [3rd] actually has a higher power to weight ratio than a standard RS500, so must be worth 6 figures as well
Mark A S said:
Probably a standard LS you drove then. Yep, in standard form they were not a great handing car as they were set up to "help" owners not disappear off the road backwards
I know it was fully standard - he'd had it since ~18 or 19, properly restored it with his Dad and was absolutely gutted to sell it after he started a family. This was around 2008/09, so bottom of the market too....even more gutted when he found out the buyer butchered the inside to turn it into an amateur rallying machine - full cage, timing unit in the dash etc.
eliot said:
Yeh I get loads of thumbs up and pointing in my moonstone 3dr - even a pair of coppers in a riot van giving way to me at a roundabout.
It’s something I couldn’t afford in the 80’s as a teenager and made it happen now in my 50’s - you’re a long time dead.
This is why I've had my Escort so long. There were a few local when I was at school, I had a 4x4 Sierra Cosworth for 8 years. My mum passed away suddenly quite young, left a small amount of money which when combined with the sale of the Sierra was enough to buy the Escort - this was 2006 so as we were heading into the financial 2008 crash, so I did purchase at pretty much the lowest point they got. I purchased because I wanted it, not as an investment as such, but it has turned out to be a good buy financially.It’s something I couldn’t afford in the 80’s as a teenager and made it happen now in my 50’s - you’re a long time dead.
MOT on Wednesday
whopping 95 miles between tests. Got a lot of attention on the way to and from the test.
havoc said:
* for which you could buy any of the following which would be better to drive, often multiples of:-
- Alfa Romeo Guilia QF
- Alpine A110 (old and new, depending on preference)
- Aston Martin V8 Vantage (most), plus some of their better V12 machines
- Audi RS3 (either), RS4 (a few), R8 (both engines)
- BMWs E46 M3, E90 M3, 1M, E39 & E60 M5, Z3M, etc. etc. Hell, you could make a case for stuff like the 330Ci Clubsport if you wanted to
- Bentley Conti GT
- Ford Focus RS Mk1 (good one), and various special Mustangs
- Honda NSX, S2000, Civic Type R (EK9, FD2, FK8 for preference), Integra Type R (DC2 or DC5)
- Hyundai i30N
- a few Jaguars if you're brave or retired
- Lambo Gallardo variants
- most Lotuses from the last 40 years
- various Maserati GTs
- Mazda RX7 (FD3 for preference), RX8 (+ a few spares for when they break )
- ...probably a few Mclarens
- Merc AMG C63, E63, A45 (maybe), SL55, SL63, SL65 (possibly)
- Mitsubishi Evo VI / VII / VIII / IX
- Morgan Aero 8 and derivatives
- Nissan GTRs (R35, probably still some older ones too) + 350/370Z
- Peugeot 306 GTi-6 at least, probably a 106 Rallye too depending on your preferences
- Porsche 987, 981, 718, 993, 996, 997 and 991 in various flavours, inc. a few GT cars
- nearly anything RenaultSport (OK, manual ones)
- most Impreza variants. Legacy R possibly too.
- any TVR from Griff/Chim onwards
- Toyota Celica GT4 and GR86, possibly others I've forgotten
- Vauxhall Monaro / successors
(Have I forgotten anything? )
Yes, BMW Z4M!- Alfa Romeo Guilia QF
- Alpine A110 (old and new, depending on preference)
- Aston Martin V8 Vantage (most), plus some of their better V12 machines
- Audi RS3 (either), RS4 (a few), R8 (both engines)
- BMWs E46 M3, E90 M3, 1M, E39 & E60 M5, Z3M, etc. etc. Hell, you could make a case for stuff like the 330Ci Clubsport if you wanted to
- Bentley Conti GT
- Ford Focus RS Mk1 (good one), and various special Mustangs
- Honda NSX, S2000, Civic Type R (EK9, FD2, FK8 for preference), Integra Type R (DC2 or DC5)
- Hyundai i30N
- a few Jaguars if you're brave or retired
- Lambo Gallardo variants
- most Lotuses from the last 40 years
- various Maserati GTs
- Mazda RX7 (FD3 for preference), RX8 (+ a few spares for when they break
)- ...probably a few Mclarens
- Merc AMG C63, E63, A45 (maybe), SL55, SL63, SL65 (possibly)
- Mitsubishi Evo VI / VII / VIII / IX
- Morgan Aero 8 and derivatives
- Nissan GTRs (R35, probably still some older ones too) + 350/370Z
- Peugeot 306 GTi-6 at least, probably a 106 Rallye too depending on your preferences
- Porsche 987, 981, 718, 993, 996, 997 and 991 in various flavours, inc. a few GT cars
- nearly anything RenaultSport (OK, manual ones)
- most Impreza variants. Legacy R possibly too.
- any TVR from Griff/Chim onwards
- Toyota Celica GT4 and GR86, possibly others I've forgotten
- Vauxhall Monaro / successors
(Have I forgotten anything?
)
havoc said:
Now you're gilding the lily. The YB was developed from the Pinto, FFS, and the "motorsport" bit largely consisted of fitting the largest turbo available (quicker/cheaper than developing the engine properly), they've all got a head-gasket habit and even the (rare) homologated/more robust YBD's aren't that reliable above 500bhp. Christ, there are a bunch of people in the US and Japan getting 600bhp from the Honda K20 with stock internals (i.e. fitting turbo, injectors, breathing, ecu), and the Mitsi 4G63 is probably even more robust. Meanwhile the Supra's 2JZ easily hits 1000bhp with just 50% more capacity/cylinders than the YB.
...but as aeropilot said above, these now appeal to those who saw them when they were young and for whom they've always been a poster-car. That I get - been there, done that myself. But please don't try to persuade anyone that they're worth the ridiculous money being asked...that is purely down to their competition history.
Sorry to resurrect this from earlier in the week Havoc but I hadn't noticed your reply until now . I don't think any of the cars you mention would tempt me simply because if I wanted an RS500 then nothing else is going to suffice and that's also true conversely if I wanted a Bentley GT then an RS500 won't suffice either. I also wouldn't expect either car to have the qualities of the other so the better driving characteristics or not is completely irrelevant to a typical classic car buyer . As regards the values of the RS500 I think initially they were certainly in the main bought by enthusiasts who when confronted by rising values based on many aspects from motorsport history to scarcity of supply suddenly found themselves owning an Investment . Doubtless many got out too early and some may even still own them but most I think couldn't predict the extent of the rising value as smart money looked for ways of increasing wealth in a post covid depressed marketplace . Sadly for genuine Ford Enthusiasts like myself who owned a few RS Fords in period it is what it is . Not the reply you possibly wanted but my genuine humble opinion nonetheless...but as aeropilot said above, these now appeal to those who saw them when they were young and for whom they've always been a poster-car. That I get - been there, done that myself. But please don't try to persuade anyone that they're worth the ridiculous money being asked...that is purely down to their competition history.
Mr Tidy said:
havoc said:
* for which you could buy any of the following which would be better to drive, often multiples of:-
- Alfa Romeo Guilia QF
- Alpine A110 (old and new, depending on preference)
- Aston Martin V8 Vantage (most), plus some of their better V12 machines
- Audi RS3 (either), RS4 (a few), R8 (both engines)
- BMWs E46 M3, E90 M3, 1M, E39 & E60 M5, Z3M, etc. etc. Hell, you could make a case for stuff like the 330Ci Clubsport if you wanted to
- Bentley Conti GT
- Ford Focus RS Mk1 (good one), and various special Mustangs
- Honda NSX, S2000, Civic Type R (EK9, FD2, FK8 for preference), Integra Type R (DC2 or DC5)
- Hyundai i30N
- a few Jaguars if you're brave or retired
- Lambo Gallardo variants
- most Lotuses from the last 40 years
- various Maserati GTs
- Mazda RX7 (FD3 for preference), RX8 (+ a few spares for when they break )
- ...probably a few Mclarens
- Merc AMG C63, E63, A45 (maybe), SL55, SL63, SL65 (possibly)
- Mitsubishi Evo VI / VII / VIII / IX
- Morgan Aero 8 and derivatives
- Nissan GTRs (R35, probably still some older ones too) + 350/370Z
- Peugeot 306 GTi-6 at least, probably a 106 Rallye too depending on your preferences
- Porsche 987, 981, 718, 993, 996, 997 and 991 in various flavours, inc. a few GT cars
- nearly anything RenaultSport (OK, manual ones)
- most Impreza variants. Legacy R possibly too.
- any TVR from Griff/Chim onwards
- Toyota Celica GT4 and GR86, possibly others I've forgotten
- Vauxhall Monaro / successors
(Have I forgotten anything? )
Yes, BMW Z4M!- Alfa Romeo Guilia QF
- Alpine A110 (old and new, depending on preference)
- Aston Martin V8 Vantage (most), plus some of their better V12 machines
- Audi RS3 (either), RS4 (a few), R8 (both engines)
- BMWs E46 M3, E90 M3, 1M, E39 & E60 M5, Z3M, etc. etc. Hell, you could make a case for stuff like the 330Ci Clubsport if you wanted to
- Bentley Conti GT
- Ford Focus RS Mk1 (good one), and various special Mustangs
- Honda NSX, S2000, Civic Type R (EK9, FD2, FK8 for preference), Integra Type R (DC2 or DC5)
- Hyundai i30N
- a few Jaguars if you're brave or retired
- Lambo Gallardo variants
- most Lotuses from the last 40 years
- various Maserati GTs
- Mazda RX7 (FD3 for preference), RX8 (+ a few spares for when they break
)- ...probably a few Mclarens
- Merc AMG C63, E63, A45 (maybe), SL55, SL63, SL65 (possibly)
- Mitsubishi Evo VI / VII / VIII / IX
- Morgan Aero 8 and derivatives
- Nissan GTRs (R35, probably still some older ones too) + 350/370Z
- Peugeot 306 GTi-6 at least, probably a 106 Rallye too depending on your preferences
- Porsche 987, 981, 718, 993, 996, 997 and 991 in various flavours, inc. a few GT cars
- nearly anything RenaultSport (OK, manual ones)
- most Impreza variants. Legacy R possibly too.
- any TVR from Griff/Chim onwards
- Toyota Celica GT4 and GR86, possibly others I've forgotten
- Vauxhall Monaro / successors
(Have I forgotten anything?
)
reddiesel said:
...but most I think couldn't predict the extent of the rising value as smart money looked for ways of increasing wealth in a post covid depressed marketplace . Sadly for genuine Ford Enthusiasts like myself who owned a few RS Fords in period it is what it is . Not the reply you possibly wanted but my genuine humble opinion nonetheless
Can't argue with any of that - been replicated across many different cars, from homologation specials like the RS500 and E30 (+ TME and 22B) to JDM halo-cars like the NSX and R34 and to hitherto-unloved Porkers (964RS springs to mind) and Ferraris (246 Dino, 400-series*).* Which really don't deserve much love except for the V12.
cerb4.5lee said:
reddiesel said:
Sadly genuine Ford Enthusiasts have been driven from the marketplace as the smart money moves in .
What I always used to love about Performance Fords was their affordability(that is also what I love about my 370Z too), so it is quite a shock for me to see the prices that these command now. Fords were always the poor mans(or womens) performance car, whereas now you have to be properly minted to buy one though. The Merc 190 Evo 2s from that era have rocketed similarly - half a mill seems nothing out the norm
eliot said:
Yeh I get loads of thumbs up and pointing in my moonstone 3dr - even a pair of coppers in a riot van giving way to me at a roundabout.
It’s something I couldn’t afford in the 80’s as a teenager and made it happen now in my 50’s - you’re a long time dead.
there’s still non 500’s about for less than 50k
Had a white jelly mould cosworth and an Escos back in the day and that was the one thing about them was that they stopped traffic even back in the day, you would always be let out of a side turning or encouraged to open it up on the motorway. Certainly a lot more respect on the road for them from other road users than an old beemer M5 or not. It’s something I couldn’t afford in the 80’s as a teenager and made it happen now in my 50’s - you’re a long time dead.
there’s still non 500’s about for less than 50k
Skinny tyres not sure a 205 or 225 would be considered skinny at the back of the 90's but they were certainly a lot more planted in4WD form.
Unless you owned one in the day you would never understand the presence they had on the road or the interest people had when they saw one both good and bad.
Glad i owned them in period, would i have one now? not at 6 figures
r5kdt said:
Unless you owned one in the day you would never understand the presence they had on the road or the interest people had when they saw one both good and bad.
reddiesel said:
Once again I am surprised about some of the posts on here claiming Cosworths weren't a particularly great drive . Its not how I remember it and in the case of the RS500 not how EVO found it either .
I guess it’s like a lot of these cars that were of that era. They had some great reviews and perhaps some not so great in their day.They’re all from 35 years ago and it’s inevitable they’ll get compared to modern stuff, you often see modern journos doing the ‘don’t meet your heroes’ piece with all the cars, E30 M3s disappointing, Merc 190 EVO 2s described as sheep in wolf’s clothing, Integrales unreliable and understeery etc
Stuff that got a slating occasionally like the 964 RS and 2.7 Touring become worth hundreds of thousands and so on
Like people, some journos will love them, some will think…. “meh”….
Just buy what you can afford and enjoy
r5kdt said:
Had a white jelly mould cosworth and an Escos back in the day and that was the one thing about them was that they stopped traffic even back in the day, you would always be let out of a side turning or encouraged to open it up on the motorway. Certainly a lot more respect on the road for them from other road users than an old beemer M5 or not.
Skinny tyres not sure a 205 or 225 would be considered skinny at the back of the 90's but they were certainly a lot more planted in4WD form.
Unless you owned one in the day you would never understand the presence they had on the road or the interest people had when they saw one both good and bad.
Glad i owned them in period, would i have one now? not at 6 figures
People forget that flash, fast cars were (by comparison to today) unbelievably rare in the past. Exotica just wasn't seen, M-cars (etc) almost as unheard of and thus quasi-special stuff like Cossies really did draw a schoolboy's gaze. The generation of Japanese rally reps that followed sold in much greater numbers (that a basic Scooby was £16.5k on release, when a EC was £24k, probably helped!) Skinny tyres not sure a 205 or 225 would be considered skinny at the back of the 90's but they were certainly a lot more planted in4WD form.
Unless you owned one in the day you would never understand the presence they had on the road or the interest people had when they saw one both good and bad.
Glad i owned them in period, would i have one now? not at 6 figures
It makes me wonder where the crosshairs will shift next; everything is a bit heady atm, and these are probably at (or approaching) their zenith - as the generation of buyers changes they'll back-off to the (relative) prices of fast-everyman-metal from the 60s/70s.
AmyRichardson said:
r5kdt said:
Had a white jelly mould cosworth and an Escos back in the day and that was the one thing about them was that they stopped traffic even back in the day, you would always be let out of a side turning or encouraged to open it up on the motorway. Certainly a lot more respect on the road for them from other road users than an old beemer M5 or not.
Skinny tyres not sure a 205 or 225 would be considered skinny at the back of the 90's but they were certainly a lot more planted in4WD form.
Unless you owned one in the day you would never understand the presence they had on the road or the interest people had when they saw one both good and bad.
Glad i owned them in period, would i have one now? not at 6 figures
People forget that flash, fast cars were (by comparison to today) unbelievably rare in the past. Exotica just wasn't seen, M-cars (etc) almost as unheard of and thus quasi-special stuff like Cossies really did draw a schoolboy's gaze. The generation of Japanese rally reps that followed sold in much greater numbers (that a basic Scooby was £16.5k on release, when a EC was £24k, probably helped!) Skinny tyres not sure a 205 or 225 would be considered skinny at the back of the 90's but they were certainly a lot more planted in4WD form.
Unless you owned one in the day you would never understand the presence they had on the road or the interest people had when they saw one both good and bad.
Glad i owned them in period, would i have one now? not at 6 figures
It makes me wonder where the crosshairs will shift next; everything is a bit heady atm, and these are probably at (or approaching) their zenith - as the generation of buyers changes they'll back-off to the (relative) prices of fast-everyman-metal from the 60s/70s.
‘
What does make me smile though - and I guess I’ve noticed it several times on here in the last week and even overheard a couple of thirty somethings using the same yardstick yesterday in an overheard conversation - is how often ‘Cosworth performance’ is used as some sort of comparator or baseline for anything affordable…….even nearly 40 years on from the cars being new
Only other thing I remember being proffered like that was BMW 335d as a kinda joke
Must be time for something like ‘C63 AMG performance’ or ‘GR86 performance’ to replace it by now surely
Hi all,
I have just been offered a H reg white sierra cosworth barnfind.
Runs and drives, needs new tyres and a good service but is otherwise immaculate.
It has an upgraded turbo and racing type hoses etc but I do not know much about the turbo. Was previous used as a race car but interior is all standard, recaros etc and bodywork is mint with full under seal protection and no rust anywhere.
These are going for about £70k and I have been offered this one for £40k - nothing wrong with it but the owner is just rich (has an original capri 2.8 with 30k on the clock, a full equipped race ready 993 911, a z-cars mini (£16.5k) and another mini with 2 hyabusa engines in it (not for sale) and a whole bunch of other cars!
I have posted in the finance section for advice but can anyone tell me the best/cheapest way to finance it please?
This is my dream car that I had a poster of on my wall as a child and the closet I have come is an A-reg XR4i. I simply cannot miss this opportunity!
Thanks a lot,
Chris
I have just been offered a H reg white sierra cosworth barnfind.
Runs and drives, needs new tyres and a good service but is otherwise immaculate.
It has an upgraded turbo and racing type hoses etc but I do not know much about the turbo. Was previous used as a race car but interior is all standard, recaros etc and bodywork is mint with full under seal protection and no rust anywhere.
These are going for about £70k and I have been offered this one for £40k - nothing wrong with it but the owner is just rich (has an original capri 2.8 with 30k on the clock, a full equipped race ready 993 911, a z-cars mini (£16.5k) and another mini with 2 hyabusa engines in it (not for sale) and a whole bunch of other cars!
I have posted in the finance section for advice but can anyone tell me the best/cheapest way to finance it please?
This is my dream car that I had a poster of on my wall as a child and the closet I have come is an A-reg XR4i. I simply cannot miss this opportunity!
Thanks a lot,
Chris
gingerbeard said:
Hi all,
I have just been offered a H reg white sierra cosworth barnfind.
Runs and drives, needs new tyres and a good service but is otherwise immaculate.
It has an upgraded turbo and racing type hoses etc but I do not know much about the turbo. Was previous used as a race car but interior is all standard, recaros etc and bodywork is mint with full under seal protection and no rust anywhere.
These are going for about £70k and I have been offered this one for £40k - nothing wrong with it but the owner is just rich (has an original capri 2.8 with 30k on the clock, a full equipped race ready 993 911, a z-cars mini (£16.5k) and another mini with 2 hyabusa engines in it (not for sale) and a whole bunch of other cars!
I have posted in the finance section for advice but can anyone tell me the best/cheapest way to finance it please?
This is my dream car that I had a poster of on my wall as a child and the closet I have come is an A-reg XR4i. I simply cannot miss this opportunity!
Thanks a lot,
Chris
Hmm, presume it’s a 4x4 one ( could possibly be a late 2wd on an ‘H’ but less likely. )I have just been offered a H reg white sierra cosworth barnfind.
Runs and drives, needs new tyres and a good service but is otherwise immaculate.
It has an upgraded turbo and racing type hoses etc but I do not know much about the turbo. Was previous used as a race car but interior is all standard, recaros etc and bodywork is mint with full under seal protection and no rust anywhere.
These are going for about £70k and I have been offered this one for £40k - nothing wrong with it but the owner is just rich (has an original capri 2.8 with 30k on the clock, a full equipped race ready 993 911, a z-cars mini (£16.5k) and another mini with 2 hyabusa engines in it (not for sale) and a whole bunch of other cars!
I have posted in the finance section for advice but can anyone tell me the best/cheapest way to finance it please?
This is my dream car that I had a poster of on my wall as a child and the closet I have come is an A-reg XR4i. I simply cannot miss this opportunity!
Thanks a lot,
Chris
I’m guessing when you mention ‘race’ car it’s been modded for track days rather than actual saloon car racing of some type? Otherwise you might be wise to have a thorough look at what’s been done to it so you can see what your 40k is buying. People tend to prefer as close to standard as possible if you want to move it on in the future and get your money back.
Can’t really advise on finance sorry but can show you the original performance figures - don’t go expecting modern Tesla performance for a 35 year old 220bhp saloon car like some do though!
Original road test figures 4x4 version
Original road test figures 2wd version
Edited by s m on Friday 28th June 08:46
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