Discussion
Marquezs Stabilisers said:
Freakuk said:
I doubt Toprak will be in talks with Pramac given no-one knows where they'll end up, if they remain with Ducati they'll have the pick of the remaining riders, switching to Yamaha will certainly limit the lure to the best riders, I'm not sure whether Toprak would jump on a Yamaha given he didn't get a chance at a ride after his official test. Plus Keenan states he wants a factory seat.
Which leaves Honda (but as I said Mir is all but confirmed) or Aprilia.
Toprak isn't getting any younger and he is probably well aware of JR's history trying to get into MotoGP, if he waits for BMW it will be purely a development role as they won't be in a position to fight for wins against the current factories/teams even after a rule change and if he waits he'll be older and unlikely to get any better offers due to his age at that time. Jumping ship now gives him time to get to know the circuits, the circus, tyres all ready for hopefully a few good years in the top class.
The chat at the time was he was well off the other Yamaha riders on the M1. If he'd been within a second I think we'd have heard about it. MotoGP might still be a bit wary of him as who is he really beating in WSBK? Rea, Bautista, Bulega, Lowes, Redding, Gardner, Petrucci - either never weres or has beens - and not every week either. The fact that Iannone has come in and been competitive after years out banned speaks volumes about the actual standard. Which leaves Honda (but as I said Mir is all but confirmed) or Aprilia.
Toprak isn't getting any younger and he is probably well aware of JR's history trying to get into MotoGP, if he waits for BMW it will be purely a development role as they won't be in a position to fight for wins against the current factories/teams even after a rule change and if he waits he'll be older and unlikely to get any better offers due to his age at that time. Jumping ship now gives him time to get to know the circuits, the circus, tyres all ready for hopefully a few good years in the top class.
The only thing that might be for him is LCR if they decide he's Asian and bin off Nakagami if Chantra and Ogura don't want the ride.
His riding on the production bike is unreal, but mainly as he gets that bike into shapes that no-one else can, and his style of getting the bike stopped really late, and being slow mid corner - Firing it out the other side, is the complete polar opposite of how a GP bike is ridden
GP bikes are like big 600's and although they steer them with the throttle, they're predominantly wheels in line carrying massive corner speed
I'd love to see him have a go, but can't see him being much good at it.
Dorna will be climbing all over this though, as not only is he a real media interest, he's also Muslim, and that's a huge market for them
graeme4130 said:
The interesting thing with Toprak potentially moving to GP would be whether he was able to adapt (if you ignore the fact that he's also too tall, and probably too heavy)
His riding on the production bike is unreal, but mainly as he gets that bike into shapes that no-one else can, and his style of
getting the bike stopped really late, and being slow mid corner - Firing it out the other side , is the complete polar opposite of how a GP bike is ridden
GP bikes are like big 600's and although they steer them with the throttle, they're predominantly wheels in line carrying massive corner speed
I'd love to see him have a go, but can't see him being much good at it.
Dorna will be climbing all over this though, as not only is he a real media interest, he's also Muslim, and that's a huge market for them
Maybe in the 800 era and the Yamaha is still a little bit about corner speed but most of the bikes like the KTM are all point and shoot. The sliding is there, but probably not as noticeable.His riding on the production bike is unreal, but mainly as he gets that bike into shapes that no-one else can, and his style of
getting the bike stopped really late, and being slow mid corner - Firing it out the other side , is the complete polar opposite of how a GP bike is ridden
GP bikes are like big 600's and although they steer them with the throttle, they're predominantly wheels in line carrying massive corner speed
I'd love to see him have a go, but can't see him being much good at it.
Dorna will be climbing all over this though, as not only is he a real media interest, he's also Muslim, and that's a huge market for them
I think it'll come down to tyres tbh.
joema said:
Maybe in the 800 era and the Yamaha is still a little bit about corner speed but most of the bikes like the KTM are all point and shoot. The sliding is there, but probably not as noticeable.
I think it'll come down to tyres tbh.
Acosta is the most extreme example but the Ducati and KTM V4 bikes are all ridden in that manner. The Aprilia isn't - we can see how much faster it is in corners - but Toprak to Trackhouse? Not sure on that. I think it'll come down to tyres tbh.
joema said:
graeme4130 said:
The interesting thing with Toprak potentially moving to GP would be whether he was able to adapt (if you ignore the fact that he's also too tall, and probably too heavy)
His riding on the production bike is unreal, but mainly as he gets that bike into shapes that no-one else can, and his style of
getting the bike stopped really late, and being slow mid corner - Firing it out the other side , is the complete polar opposite of how a GP bike is ridden
GP bikes are like big 600's and although they steer them with the throttle, they're predominantly wheels in line carrying massive corner speed
I'd love to see him have a go, but can't see him being much good at it.
Dorna will be climbing all over this though, as not only is he a real media interest, he's also Muslim, and that's a huge market for them
Maybe in the 800 era and the Yamaha is still a little bit about corner speed but most of the bikes like the KTM are all point and shoot. The sliding is there, but probably not as noticeable.His riding on the production bike is unreal, but mainly as he gets that bike into shapes that no-one else can, and his style of
getting the bike stopped really late, and being slow mid corner - Firing it out the other side , is the complete polar opposite of how a GP bike is ridden
GP bikes are like big 600's and although they steer them with the throttle, they're predominantly wheels in line carrying massive corner speed
I'd love to see him have a go, but can't see him being much good at it.
Dorna will be climbing all over this though, as not only is he a real media interest, he's also Muslim, and that's a huge market for them
I think it'll come down to tyres tbh.
2ndclasscitizen said:
I think the biggest question mark for Toprak is can he adapt to braking with the rear on the ground.
This is exactly why he struggled on the Yamaha tests. MotoGP bikes are built around the engine braking strats turning the bike in, it's absolutely key to their lap times. If you don't keep the rear on the ground enough, it compromises this too much. It's why the exhaust valves you see on the bikes are there, they aren't used like you may expect for power, they are used as part of a strategy to close and control the engine braking even more.John D. said:
HybridTheory said:
Biker's Nemesis said:
Praise the Lord for Cal Crutchlow, our last Moto GP winner, if we're talking about awkward, cringe inducing racers talking in Interviews, look no further than Jake Dixon. I can't stand the sound of his voice. When he starts talking about mental health and all that tiresome stuff, he reminds me of a drunk teenage girl.
Proper essex.boy he is Freakuk said:
John D. said:
HybridTheory said:
Biker's Nemesis said:
Praise the Lord for Cal Crutchlow, our last Moto GP winner, if we're talking about awkward, cringe inducing racers talking in Interviews, look no further than Jake Dixon. I can't stand the sound of his voice. When he starts talking about mental health and all that tiresome stuff, he reminds me of a drunk teenage girl.
Proper essex.boy he is joema said:
Bez to Aprillia confirmed. Seems like good move.
Certainly for Bez, a good and probably justified promotion for him. A different challenge now he'll be asked to contribute to development as well. Same with Jorge Martin, as Aprilia won't have as much data and resource as Ducati so his feedback will have to be good. pitlane said:
This is exactly why he struggled on the Yamaha tests. MotoGP bikes are built around the engine braking strats turning the bike in, it's absolutely key to their lap times. If you don't keep the rear on the ground enough, it compromises this too much. It's why the exhaust valves you see on the bikes are there, they aren't used like you may expect for power, they are used as part of a strategy to close and control the engine braking even more.
And indeed why Dovi was nowhere in his last MotoGP ride on the Yamaha - his style on the Ducati was very much about sliding the back on braking as the bugger wouldn't turn - partly because he didn't hang off anything like as much as Martin and Bagnaia do. Marquezs Stabilisers said:
And indeed why Dovi was nowhere in his last MotoGP ride on the Yamaha - his style on the Ducati was very much about sliding the back on braking as the bugger wouldn't turn - partly because he didn't hang off anything like as much as Martin and Bagnaia do.
I thought dovi complained about traction with the Yamaha , that’s why he was struggling with it , vale was saying the same , even Fabio is now saying it’s not power they are struggling with , it’s traction pitlane said:
2ndclasscitizen said:
I think the biggest question mark for Toprak is can he adapt to braking with the rear on the ground.
This is exactly why he struggled on the Yamaha tests. MotoGP bikes are built around the engine braking strats turning the bike in, it's absolutely key to their lap times. If you don't keep the rear on the ground enough, it compromises this too much. It's why the exhaust valves you see on the bikes are there, they aren't used like you may expect for power, they are used as part of a strategy to close and control the engine braking even more.Gas1883 said:
Marquezs Stabilisers said:
And indeed why Dovi was nowhere in his last MotoGP ride on the Yamaha - his style on the Ducati was very much about sliding the back on braking as the bugger wouldn't turn - partly because he didn't hang off anything like as much as Martin and Bagnaia do.
I thought dovi complained about traction with the Yamaha , that’s why he was struggling with it , vale was saying the same , even Fabio is now saying it’s not power they are struggling with , it’s traction Also, perhaps Toprak's problem with the Yamaha was that it was a wheels inline, limited power/traction bike that might not suit his riding style?
trevalvole said:
Plus I recall Dovi doing ok years ago on a TECH3 Yamaha and, iirc, various Hondas, so I'm sceptical of the view that he couldn't get the braking right on non-Ducatis.
Also, perhaps Toprak's problem with the Yamaha was that it was a wheels inline, limited power/traction bike that might not suit his riding style?
My memory has let me down, Dovi's three consecutive 2nd places in the World Championship were all on Michelins - the switch from Bridgestone was earlier than I thought. It was however his style of not hanging off - compared to Bagnaia and Miller who replaced him, that in part seemed to spell the end of his time at Ducati. Also, perhaps Toprak's problem with the Yamaha was that it was a wheels inline, limited power/traction bike that might not suit his riding style?
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