Garage wrecked my Range Rover engine… please help
Discussion
Hey Everyone.
So.. the long story cut short for the sake of this thread...
I have a prized Range Rover Sport 5l turbo autobiography (Petrol). Reg 2016. Been regularly serviced and maintained. 90,000 miles.
• orange engine warning light came on whilst driving to work one morning
• I took car to 'garage 1' who ran a diagnostic and said cylinders 3,5 and 7 were mis firing and this was likely a timing chain issue or a timing tensioner issue but this was a specialist job and they cannot do it
• I rang around and found a garage with the name 'Land Rover specialist' in their name, so called ahead, booked it in and took it straight there driving super carefully.
• I parked outside slightly over-shooting their entrance, gave them the keys and one of their staff, knowing it was coming in for timing chain repairs, drove the car down the road, did a U-turn and back up, then around the back to their inspection bay.
• Repair quote was doubled in price once I sat down in their reception but had little choice but to leave car with them as didnt want to risk driving further.
• They commenced repairs next day - engine still ran, but obviously with the timing being out, it sounded more like a tractor than a Range Rover sport. I was shown a video of engine running and slack timing chain and gave consent for repairs to proceed.
• They did NOT run their own diagnostics and instead chose to use Garage 1 report
• They said they needed to do a compression test
• They then called back to say they couldn't do a compression test as engine no longer turned. They had seized it.
They then started saying they would get prices for a new engine - at which point I lost my s
t and asked how could it now need a new engine when it came in for a new timing chain.
I told them to stop all works as they had damaged my car. And they made me pay them £800 for the time to strip the engine down and gave me my car back with half of the engine and the components chucked in the boot of the car (the boot was literally piled high with engine parts!)
I got the car recovered to another garage for an engine rebuild and now need to try to prove garage 2 were negligent.
Any tips?
I am looking at a £10,000 bill minimum... Car is on finance with £28k still owing...
So.. the long story cut short for the sake of this thread...
I have a prized Range Rover Sport 5l turbo autobiography (Petrol). Reg 2016. Been regularly serviced and maintained. 90,000 miles.
• orange engine warning light came on whilst driving to work one morning
• I took car to 'garage 1' who ran a diagnostic and said cylinders 3,5 and 7 were mis firing and this was likely a timing chain issue or a timing tensioner issue but this was a specialist job and they cannot do it
• I rang around and found a garage with the name 'Land Rover specialist' in their name, so called ahead, booked it in and took it straight there driving super carefully.
• I parked outside slightly over-shooting their entrance, gave them the keys and one of their staff, knowing it was coming in for timing chain repairs, drove the car down the road, did a U-turn and back up, then around the back to their inspection bay.
• Repair quote was doubled in price once I sat down in their reception but had little choice but to leave car with them as didnt want to risk driving further.
• They commenced repairs next day - engine still ran, but obviously with the timing being out, it sounded more like a tractor than a Range Rover sport. I was shown a video of engine running and slack timing chain and gave consent for repairs to proceed.
• They did NOT run their own diagnostics and instead chose to use Garage 1 report
• They said they needed to do a compression test
• They then called back to say they couldn't do a compression test as engine no longer turned. They had seized it.
They then started saying they would get prices for a new engine - at which point I lost my s
t and asked how could it now need a new engine when it came in for a new timing chain.I told them to stop all works as they had damaged my car. And they made me pay them £800 for the time to strip the engine down and gave me my car back with half of the engine and the components chucked in the boot of the car (the boot was literally piled high with engine parts!)
I got the car recovered to another garage for an engine rebuild and now need to try to prove garage 2 were negligent.
Any tips?
I am looking at a £10,000 bill minimum... Car is on finance with £28k still owing...
You'll need a specialist independent report to make any possible progress.
It doesn't help your cause that once the warning light appeared and it sounded like a tractor you continued to drive it to garage 1 and onward to another garage.
If there's a timing chain issue not advisable to continue using.
The damage was possibly already done before reaching the second garage.
Did you not have breakdown recovery when the issue first started?
It doesn't help your cause that once the warning light appeared and it sounded like a tractor you continued to drive it to garage 1 and onward to another garage.
If there's a timing chain issue not advisable to continue using.
The damage was possibly already done before reaching the second garage.
Did you not have breakdown recovery when the issue first started?
Firstly, really sorry to hear about that. The 5.0 V8 is generally considered relatively reliable, and a 2016 car isn't that old, so it seems like rotten luck to have an engine failure and it's understandable you may be feeling shocked, worried and/or angry.
Secondly, at the moment all you know is that the engine won't turn over. Unless you want to give up on the current engine right now, the only way to proceed is to get the garage it is now at to take the engine apart and give a diagnosis of what's actually happened and what's needed to get your car back on the road. This may also shed light on whether the damage happened before the car reached garage #2, or while it was there.
Thirdly, it's natural to seek to blame someone involved, but I think it's important to remember that your car had developed a fairly major engine fault before you took it to the second garage, and had been driven to get there. The second garage was working towards a compression test when the engine seized, it's not necessarily obvious that they could or should have done anything different to avoid that happening.
It's a tough situation, good luck finding a solution.
Why did you pay them the £800, instead of saying something like it ran when I dropped it off and it runs in the video - how did it become seized and you should rebuild it.
I do feel that as it ran when you dropped it off and it ran when they videoed it, they might bear some responsibility. I’m not a lawyer tho!
I do feel that as it ran when you dropped it off and it ran when they videoed it, they might bear some responsibility. I’m not a lawyer tho!
Chainsaw Rebuild said:
Why did you pay them the £800, instead of saying something like it ran when I dropped it off and it runs in the video - how did it become seized and you should rebuild it.
I do feel that as it ran when you dropped it off and it ran when they videoed it, they might bear some responsibility. I’m not a lawyer tho!
They did work so need paying, it was a broken car that then proceeded to break some more while in their custody, it still doesn't make it their problem, it's OP's.I do feel that as it ran when you dropped it off and it ran when they videoed it, they might bear some responsibility. I’m not a lawyer tho!
Range Rovers are cheap 2nd hand buys for a reason, unfortunately OP is finding out the reason.
My friends Jag F Type SVR which he bought from a Jag dealer and had only serviced by them destroyed it's engine exclusively through gentle road driving.
Jag quoted £28k to fix, in the end through goodwill he ended up paying 'only' £13k.
Just terribly engineered products all around.
thank you (I think) for the response so far...
So garage 1 was about 10 min drive away from garage 2.
So it wasn't that far to drive it.
The engine warning light was amber not red - which lead me to believe that it wasn't a 'stop driving the car now and pull over' situation. SO I did what felt like the most sensible thing and took it straight to a garage - I just didnt realise that first garage was not going to be able to do the repairs.
The engine was running when I arrived. and when I left it there.
The engine still ran during their own inspections - albeit they knew it was now a timing chain issue - so they COULD have chosen to not start the engine if they knew the seriousness of the issue.
The engine seized, according to my own private engineer, because they manually rotated the engine backwards whilst it still had the slack timing chain installed....
The pistons and valves all then smashed on the cylinder head and broke off leaving the engine completely seized.
My private engineer had to remove the cylinder head to pick out the broken pieces... and said there is no way that I could have caused that damage as I was able to drive it and the engine seizing would have been instantaneous
So garage 1 was about 10 min drive away from garage 2.
So it wasn't that far to drive it.
The engine warning light was amber not red - which lead me to believe that it wasn't a 'stop driving the car now and pull over' situation. SO I did what felt like the most sensible thing and took it straight to a garage - I just didnt realise that first garage was not going to be able to do the repairs.
The engine was running when I arrived. and when I left it there.
The engine still ran during their own inspections - albeit they knew it was now a timing chain issue - so they COULD have chosen to not start the engine if they knew the seriousness of the issue.
The engine seized, according to my own private engineer, because they manually rotated the engine backwards whilst it still had the slack timing chain installed....
The pistons and valves all then smashed on the cylinder head and broke off leaving the engine completely seized.
My private engineer had to remove the cylinder head to pick out the broken pieces... and said there is no way that I could have caused that damage as I was able to drive it and the engine seizing would have been instantaneous
nosha123 said:
thank you (I think) for the response so far...
So garage 1 was about 10 min drive away from garage 2.
So it wasn't that far to drive it.
The engine warning light was amber not red - which lead me to believe that it wasn't a 'stop driving the car now and pull over' situation. SO I did what felt like the most sensible thing and took it straight to a garage - I just didnt realise that first garage was not going to be able to do the repairs.
The engine was running when I arrived. and when I left it there.
The engine still ran during their own inspections - albeit they knew it was now a timing chain issue - so they COULD have chosen to not start the engine if they knew the seriousness of the issue.
The engine seized, according to my own private engineer, because they manually rotated the engine backwards whilst it still had the slack timing chain installed....
The pistons and valves all then smashed on the cylinder head and broke off leaving the engine completely seized.
My private engineer had to remove the cylinder head to pick out the broken pieces... and said there is no way that I could have caused that damage as I was able to drive it and the engine seizing would have been instantaneous
Amber EML on Landrover-So garage 1 was about 10 min drive away from garage 2.
So it wasn't that far to drive it.
The engine warning light was amber not red - which lead me to believe that it wasn't a 'stop driving the car now and pull over' situation. SO I did what felt like the most sensible thing and took it straight to a garage - I just didnt realise that first garage was not going to be able to do the repairs.
The engine was running when I arrived. and when I left it there.
The engine still ran during their own inspections - albeit they knew it was now a timing chain issue - so they COULD have chosen to not start the engine if they knew the seriousness of the issue.
The engine seized, according to my own private engineer, because they manually rotated the engine backwards whilst it still had the slack timing chain installed....
The pistons and valves all then smashed on the cylinder head and broke off leaving the engine completely seized.
My private engineer had to remove the cylinder head to pick out the broken pieces... and said there is no way that I could have caused that damage as I was able to drive it and the engine seizing would have been instantaneous
>If your Land Rover check engine light flashes on and off, it indicates a misfire on one or more cylinders. Typically this is caused due to a bad spark plug, faulty ignition coil or could indicate a clogged catalytic converter. If the check engine light is flashing, do not drive or keep the engine running.<
I think the fact you drove the car rather than get it towed will damage any claim personally.
You engineer says maunally cranking it backwards did that damage? That sounds strange, normally that running damage.
Edited by Responder.First on Thursday 27th June 13:55
I also dont agree that they had to run the engine as they had already driven it, and heard it, and they had the diagnostics showing which cylinders were mis-firing.
So why did they need to run the engine?
They could tell the timing chain was loose from a visual inspection without running the engine
They also didnt run their own diagnostics which I believe is not best practice. A garage told me they would never use another garages reports and would do their own.
Why did they need to do a compression test?
And why did they need to manually rotate the engine backwards - another 2 garages have told me this is a big NO NO when preparing a timing chain as you need to have very precise specialist tools to position the chain correctly
So why did they need to run the engine?
They could tell the timing chain was loose from a visual inspection without running the engine
They also didnt run their own diagnostics which I believe is not best practice. A garage told me they would never use another garages reports and would do their own.
Why did they need to do a compression test?
And why did they need to manually rotate the engine backwards - another 2 garages have told me this is a big NO NO when preparing a timing chain as you need to have very precise specialist tools to position the chain correctly
nosha123 said:
thank you (I think) for the response so far...
So garage 1 was about 10 min drive away from garage 2.
So it wasn't that far to drive it.
The engine warning light was amber not red - which lead me to believe that it wasn't a 'stop driving the car now and pull over' situation. SO I did what felt like the most sensible thing and took it straight to a garage - I just didnt realise that first garage was not going to be able to do the repairs.
The engine was running when I arrived. and when I left it there.
The engine still ran during their own inspections - albeit they knew it was now a timing chain issue - so they COULD have chosen to not start the engine if they knew the seriousness of the issue.
The engine seized, according to my own private engineer, because they manually rotated the engine backwards whilst it still had the slack timing chain installed....
The pistons and valves all then smashed on the cylinder head and broke off leaving the engine completely seized.
My private engineer had to remove the cylinder head to pick out the broken pieces... and said there is no way that I could have caused that damage as I was able to drive it and the engine seizing would have been instantaneous
Your own private engineer? A proper garage?So garage 1 was about 10 min drive away from garage 2.
So it wasn't that far to drive it.
The engine warning light was amber not red - which lead me to believe that it wasn't a 'stop driving the car now and pull over' situation. SO I did what felt like the most sensible thing and took it straight to a garage - I just didnt realise that first garage was not going to be able to do the repairs.
The engine was running when I arrived. and when I left it there.
The engine still ran during their own inspections - albeit they knew it was now a timing chain issue - so they COULD have chosen to not start the engine if they knew the seriousness of the issue.
The engine seized, according to my own private engineer, because they manually rotated the engine backwards whilst it still had the slack timing chain installed....
The pistons and valves all then smashed on the cylinder head and broke off leaving the engine completely seized.
My private engineer had to remove the cylinder head to pick out the broken pieces... and said there is no way that I could have caused that damage as I was able to drive it and the engine seizing would have been instantaneous
You'll need a report from a garage, preferably a VAT registered one (I only say this as it seems to be the benchmark for warranty companies)
That report will be your evidence to support any demands/claim.
Send that report to the garage, give them an opportunity to rectify the problem, give them some sort of deadline.
"Depending on the severity of the issue, the engine management light will illuminate either orange or red. While it’s sometimes possible to drive with an orange engine management light turned on (this may be yellow in some cars), a red engine management light signifies a serious issue and you should pull over in a safe location immediately"
and
"What to do if the engine management light is orange
An orange, amber or yellow engine management light signifies a non-critical engine issue. If everything seems normal from behind the wheel, you should be fine to continue driving to your destination where the issue should be investigated."
"What to do if the engine management light is orange
An orange, amber or yellow engine management light signifies a non-critical engine issue. If everything seems normal from behind the wheel, you should be fine to continue driving to your destination where the issue should be investigated."
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