End of Life EV's / EV Bangernomics - Still worth buying?

[Bikerjon]

Noticed that some of the older 10+ years "first gen" EV's are getting very cheap now and, allowing for the obvious drawbacks, I think they might still make a useful runabout for local journeys. I realise I would most likely be the final owner and I'd probably have to dispose after 2 or 3 years, but the simplicity and lower maintenance of an EV still appeals even in this rather limited capacity.

I'm mostly looking at Nissan Leaf, Renault Zoe, maybe a Kia Soul. Obviously these can't be compared to the newer models, but you can pick these up so cheap that I'm tempted!

Just interested in some opinions on buying at this end of the market. Mad idea or worth a punt?

[740EVTORQUES]

The sweet spot is in skipping the very early ones such as Leafs which didn’t have thermal management and so degraded and going for a leggy Tesla when they fall into your price range.

These are proving to have the resilience of cockroaches

Edited by 740EVTORQUES on Friday 14th June 12:30

[Bikerjon]

Agree about Tesla - but that's a completely different budget! I'm talking £3000 - £4000. Thermal battery management isn't a huge factor at this point because it's already going to be in steady decline and the car will most likely be scrapped at the end!

[PetrolHeadInRecovery]

Bikerjon said:

Noticed that some of the older 10+ years "first gen" EV's are getting very cheap now and, allowing for the obvious drawbacks, I think they might still make a useful runabout for local journeys. I realise I would most likely be the final owner and I'd probably have to dispose after 2 or 3 years, but the simplicity and lower maintenance of an EV still appeals even in this rather limited capacity.

I'm mostly looking at Nissan Leaf, Renault Zoe, maybe a Kia Soul. Obviously these can't be compared to the newer models, but you can pick these up so cheap that I'm tempted!

Just interested in some opinions on buying at this end of the market. Mad idea or worth a punt?

Made me think of this thread on the users' cars forum.

Price would be higher, the weather would have an impact, the family can't join you, and the local motorways would be off-limits. But it sounds like a giggle, the weather would have an impact, the family can't join you, and the car would probably be considerably less disposable after 2-3 years.

Crash protection would probably be at the same level as the Zoe (marginally better than a motorcycle?).

[Turtle Shed]

I've said it before and I'll say it again. The first-gen Leaf (Sunderland built, not the very early Japanese cars) is an absolute no-brainer as a second car.

For £4k you'll get a 64 reg, possibly newer, which will still manage a 60 mile round trip. Whack that on Octopus Go, and you'll save £100 every thousand miles you drive. Free car after a few years, and if my '64 Leaf is anything to go by, there's no reason to think it won't go on way longer than that.

Only non-consumable/MOT/service etc... cost over a decade has been one wheel bearing.

Still lovely to drive after 75k miles, battery on 80% health or thereabouts.

[SWoll]

Early BMW i3's are getting toward the £5k mark now and have better BMS than the Leaf.

A cracking little city car for that money and with plastic panels and a a CRP tub a lot less susceptible to rust. Should easily get another 5+ years out of one I'd have thought?

[Bikerjon]

Thanks for the replies

I like left-field suggestions and the Twizy looks like a great alternative to my bike in the winter months and I've got a good spot to park/charge it - if only it was a bit faster!

Reassuring to know about the Leaf as I think that's realistically the strongest contender at this point, but I hadn't realised the BMW is also creeping into this territory too - will research that one some more.

[Downward]

Depends what you mean by cheap.
My 24kw 2015 leaf with 63k miles went for about £4k.
Range about 70 on a good day, 55 miles in winter.

[Bikerjon]

Downward said:

Depends what you mean by cheap.
My 24kw 2015 leaf with 63k miles went for about £4k.
Range about 70 on a good day, 55 miles in winter.

Pretty much an ideal example, really. £4k for a 2015 EV runabout.

[Mr E]

My previous 24KWh leaf has just been sold by a friend to another friend.

60k miles. 2015. Really good nick. New tyres. Never been fast charged. £3k

I very nearly bought it back.

[OutInTheShed]

Turtle Shed said:

I've said it before and I'll say it again. The first-gen Leaf (Sunderland built, not the very early Japanese cars) is an absolute no-brainer as a second car.

For £4k you'll get a 64 reg, possibly newer, which will still manage a 60 mile round trip. Whack that on Octopus Go, and you'll save £100 every thousand miles you drive. Free car after a few years, and if my '64 Leaf is anything to go by, there's no reason to think it won't go on way longer than that.

Only non-consumable/MOT/service etc... cost over a decade has been one wheel bearing.

Still lovely to drive after 75k miles, battery on 80% health or thereabouts.

£4k and saving 10p a mile is still 40k miles to payback.

I have a mate who did that, but many people would struggle to do 40k miles of sub-50 mile journeys before the range dropped yet further.
You have to do a lot of local running about to make it pay.

Many people would be better off spending a bit more and getting a car which had more life left in it and enough range to not need an IC car for longer journeys.

The catch 22 is that many EVs are dropping in value by say £2k a year, so you have to save quite a lot to be better off than waiting and buying one next year for less.

Depending of course on the depreciation situation of your existing cars.

[Luke.]

i3, i3, i3, i3,i3, i3, i3, i3,i3, i3, i3, i3,i3, i3, i3, i3,i3, i3, i3, i3,i3, i3, i3, i3,i3, i3, i3, i3,i3, i3, i3, i3,i3, i3, i3, i3,i3, i3, i3, i3,i3, i3, i3, i3,i3, i3, i3, i3,i3, i3, i3, i3,i3, i3, i3, i3,i3, i3, i3, i3,i3, i3, i3, i3,i3, i3, i3, i3,i3, i3, i3, i3,i3, i3, i3, i3,i3, i3, i3, i3,i3, i3, i3, i3,i3, i3, i3, i3,i3, i3, i3, i3,i3, i3, i3, i3,i3, i3, i3, i3,i3, i3,i3, i3, i3, i3,i3, i3, i3, i3,i3, i3, i3, i3,i3, i3, i3, i3,i3, i3, i3, i3,i3, i3, i3, i3,i3, i3, i3, i3,i3, i3, i3, i3,i3, i3, i3, i3,i3, i3, i3, i3,i3, i3, i3, i3,i3, i3, i3, i3,i3, i3, i3, i3,i3, i3, i3, i3,i3, i3, i3, i3,i3, i3, i3, i3,i3, i3, i3, i3,i3, i3, i3, i3,i3, i3, i3, i3,i3, i3, i3, i3,i3, i3, i3, i3,i3, i3, i3, i3,i3, i3, i3, i3,i3, i3, i3, i3,i3, i3, i3, i3, i3, i3,i3, i3, i3, i3,i3, i3, i3, i3,i3, i3, i3, i3,i3, i3, i3, i3,i3, i3, i3, i3,i3, i3, i3, i3,i3, i3, i3, i3,i3, i3, i3, i3,i3, i3, i3, i3,i3, i3, i3, i3,i3, i3, i3, i3,i3, i3, i3, i3,i3, i3, i3, i3,i3, i3, i3, i3,i3, i3, i3, i3,i3, i3, i3, i3,i3, i3, i3, i3,i3, i3, i3, i3,i3, i3, i3, i3,i3, i3, i3, i3,i3, i3, i3, i3,i3, i3, i3, i3,i3, i3, i3, i3,i3, i3, i3, i3...

...you get the gist. Best car I've owned...

[Toaster Pilot]

Little biased because I’ve started dealing in this kind of thing recently but there are some real bargain Leafs around at the moment. Ignore the Japanese ones and anything with loads of degradation and you can pick up something that’ll suit a lot of needs for not very much money at all.

[Phunk]

If you’re doing minimal mileage they’re great.

But difficult to resell though, just had to drop my mums 14 plate leaf to £2500 to get any bites

[OutInTheShed]

Phunk said:

If you’re doing minimal mileage they’re great.

But difficult to resell though, just had to drop my mums 14 plate leaf to £2500 to get any bites

If you're doing minimal mileage, your fuel savings will add up to 10p x minimal.
Meanwhile the car is depreciating like yesterday's mackeral.

Somebody doing minimal miles would probably do better with a small IC hatchback, £20 tax, cheaper insurance buy it for 2 or 3 grand sell it for not much less after two years.

I think if you can, it's better to buy a 5 year old leaf and expect it to have another 7 years life, rather than buy a 10 year old one?
For < 3x the money you get a bigger battery with more than 3x the years left in it.

[eth2190]

Just completed a ~1200mile round trip to Normandy and Le Mans in my 2015 i3 Rex. Minimal mileage indeed

[Bikerjon]

I should say that my interest in buying *near* end of life EV's isn't purely down to the pence-per-mile fuel/energy cost. It's also to do with avoiding the increasingly high cost of local servicing and maintenance for even the most basic ICE cars. As an example, it doesn't take much for the annual service/MOT for our basic diesel car to get close or exceed £1000. I struggle with that. Fine if you have a decent performance or luxury car, but our one certainly isn't that!

Getting more interested in the i3. A little out of budget, but might be an option. Is the range extender model a good idea or is it best to keep it simple with pure battery power?

Edited by Bikerjon on Monday 17th June 19:39

[Luke.]

Bikerjon said:

I should say that my interest in buying *near* end of life EV's isn't purely down to the pence-per-mile fuel/energy cost. It's as much to do with avoiding the increasingly high cost of local servicing and maintenance for even the most basic ICE cars. It doesn't take much for the annual service/MOT for our basic diesel car to get close or exceed £1000. I struggle with that. Fine if you have a decent performance or luxury car, but our one certainly isn't!

Getting more interested in the i3. A little out of budget, but might be an option. Is the range extender model a good idea or is it best to keep it simple with pure battery power?

I'd avoid the range extender. Double the servicing costs and, I know everyone's different, but I never used it in two years. It also comes on every now and then for a little while on its own accord for some sort of service mode. It's bloody noisy too.

[OutInTheShed]

Bikerjon said:

I should say that my interest in buying *near* end of life EV's isn't purely down to the pence-per-mile fuel/energy cost. It's also to do with avoiding the increasingly high cost of local servicing and maintenance for even the most basic ICE cars. As an example, it doesn't take much for the annual service/MOT for our basic diesel car to get close or exceed £1000. I struggle with that. Fine if you have a decent performance or luxury car, but our one certainly isn't that!

Getting more interested in the i3. A little out of budget, but might be an option. Is the range extender model a good idea or is it best to keep it simple with pure battery power?

Edited by Bikerjon on Monday 17th June 19:39

I seriously considered an i3 about 18 months ago.
Since then those cars have lost a lot of value.
Depreciation is often the biggest cost and perhaps also the least predictable?
The REx sounds nice on paper, but it only adds 90 miles or so.
Normally I fill up when my car says '90 miles left'.
The i3 REx does not seem like an answer to 'what shall we drive to Scotland?'
But if they keep getting cheaper I could be tempted.


The banger among bangers is perhaps the Ampera?
Somebody I know had one for about 10 minutes then got a works van.
They are never spoken of.
Will bad things happen to me now I've mentioned them?

On the face of it, a bargain PHEV which just decays into a hybrid with a reasonable tank range?



The bigger picture, modern IC cars are shyte. Once they start going wrong, you are doomed.
It's easier to get any part of my 20 year old Ducati fixed fettled or upgraded than to find someone local to sort curious problems on a Ford half the age.
Add in complexs transmissions, cockwomble driver aids and dodgy software, the future is not bright for bargain banger-o-nomics.
Modern IC cars, like EVs are designed to last a decade or so, then get recycled.

[SWoll]

Luke. said:

I'd avoid the range extender. Double the servicing costs and, I know everyone's different, but I never used it in two years. It also comes on every now and then for a little while on its own accord for some sort of service mode. It's bloody noisy too.

This. Adds complexity and weight if you don't need the range.

For the OP, they're a perfect city car capable of carrying 4 adults or 2 adults + plenty of luggage. Well built, fun to drive and have a ridiculously tight turning circle so perfect in the city. I'd have another tomorrow if we needed a second car for local duties.