Parking fines from private company
Discussion
Just curious about this one.
The scenario is, pop to the supermarket and you park in either a bay for the disabled or for parent and child but you meet neither criteria for parking there.
I'm not getting into should you / shouldn't you, that's for your own moral compass to judge.
What I am interested in is, how can a private company issue a "fine" against a private citizen for parking there?
It's not a parking offence as it's not illegal to park there as it is private property and not a public road / carpark.
Also, for either type of space. Is it not discriminatory against able bodied or childless people not being allowed to park there? Not so inclusive of everyone no matter what is it?
The scenario is, pop to the supermarket and you park in either a bay for the disabled or for parent and child but you meet neither criteria for parking there.
I'm not getting into should you / shouldn't you, that's for your own moral compass to judge.
What I am interested in is, how can a private company issue a "fine" against a private citizen for parking there?
It's not a parking offence as it's not illegal to park there as it is private property and not a public road / carpark.
Also, for either type of space. Is it not discriminatory against able bodied or childless people not being allowed to park there? Not so inclusive of everyone no matter what is it?
private companies can't issue fines.
they issue 'parking charge notices' either by placing a ticket on your windscreen hoping the driver will cough up or by seeking the keeper details from DVLA then sending a speculative invoice to the keeper hoping that the keeper will pay.
they try to make their parking charge notices look official and use bully / threatening tactics to persuade the driver / keeper to pay up. this often works because the general public are largely ignorant of the legal position and get concerned about the cost of defending the charge. most of the tickets are, ultimately, unenforceable.
more details on pepipoo web site
they issue 'parking charge notices' either by placing a ticket on your windscreen hoping the driver will cough up or by seeking the keeper details from DVLA then sending a speculative invoice to the keeper hoping that the keeper will pay.
they try to make their parking charge notices look official and use bully / threatening tactics to persuade the driver / keeper to pay up. this often works because the general public are largely ignorant of the legal position and get concerned about the cost of defending the charge. most of the tickets are, ultimately, unenforceable.
more details on pepipoo web site
bobbybee said:
Just curious about this one.
The scenario is, pop to the supermarket and you park in either a bay for the disabled or for parent and child but you meet neither criteria for parking there.
I'm not getting into should you / shouldn't you, that's for your own moral compass to judge.
What I am interested in is, how can a private company issue a "fine" against a private citizen for parking there?
It's not a parking offence as it's not illegal to park there as it is private property and not a public road / carpark.
Also, for either type of space. Is it not discriminatory against able bodied or childless people not being allowed to park there? Not so inclusive of everyone no matter what is it?
Tough sThe scenario is, pop to the supermarket and you park in either a bay for the disabled or for parent and child but you meet neither criteria for parking there.
I'm not getting into should you / shouldn't you, that's for your own moral compass to judge.
What I am interested in is, how can a private company issue a "fine" against a private citizen for parking there?
It's not a parking offence as it's not illegal to park there as it is private property and not a public road / carpark.
Also, for either type of space. Is it not discriminatory against able bodied or childless people not being allowed to park there? Not so inclusive of everyone no matter what is it?
t. You don’t make the rules.My mother is disabled and I’d like to point out your obvious centre of the universe complex if you think life’s niceties only apply to other people.
The fact that you looking for excuses make it worse.
I'm guessing that as it's private land by parking there you agree to any parking terms the supermarket state (on little signs around the car park) and they employ a parking firm to enforce these. Personally, I wish they could do more to penalise the able-bodied/childless people who park in designated bays and make life difficult for those with genuine need of the spaces.
Chris
Chris
Ignoring the OP's moral compass for a second....
The reason they can "fine" you as you put it, is that they're not fining you, but you enter into a contract when you park on their private land. The terms of the contract are what binds you, and when they issue you a charge or claim, it's because you're in breach of the contract.
If they follow the necessary rules when enforcing the terms of the contract, then you need to pay, or go to court and fight it out there.
If their contract/terms and conditions for allowing you to park (for free or for a charge) state that e.g. only blue badge holders can park in a disabled bay, or only parents with children can park in parent and child spaces, or only EV's are allowed in EV spaces, then that is the terms you need to respect.
If you don't like those terms, you can park somewhere else, although if you think the council (who CAN issue genuine fines/penalties) will be any more lenient with regards to your hypothetical occupation of a disabled bay, I think you'll find yourself disappointed
The reason they can "fine" you as you put it, is that they're not fining you, but you enter into a contract when you park on their private land. The terms of the contract are what binds you, and when they issue you a charge or claim, it's because you're in breach of the contract.
If they follow the necessary rules when enforcing the terms of the contract, then you need to pay, or go to court and fight it out there.
If their contract/terms and conditions for allowing you to park (for free or for a charge) state that e.g. only blue badge holders can park in a disabled bay, or only parents with children can park in parent and child spaces, or only EV's are allowed in EV spaces, then that is the terms you need to respect.
If you don't like those terms, you can park somewhere else, although if you think the council (who CAN issue genuine fines/penalties) will be any more lenient with regards to your hypothetical occupation of a disabled bay, I think you'll find yourself disappointed
They can issue a penalty charge for parking a disable bay without a valid badge.
The parent and child bays are much harder to enforce but if there is a Parking op maybe if they have no children with them.
Most don't have staffing as they just fit ANPR and charge you for the overstay element.
The parent and child bays are much harder to enforce but if there is a Parking op maybe if they have no children with them.
Most don't have staffing as they just fit ANPR and charge you for the overstay element.
Responder.First said:
They can issue a penalty charge for parking a disable bay without a valid badge.
The parent and child bays are much harder to enforce but if there is a Parking op maybe if they have no children with them.
Most don't have staffing as they just fit ANPR and charge you for the overstay element.
They can’t issue a penalty charge on private land whether it’s for parking in a disabled bay or not.The parent and child bays are much harder to enforce but if there is a Parking op maybe if they have no children with them.
Most don't have staffing as they just fit ANPR and charge you for the overstay element.
Tye Green said:
private companies can't issue fines.
they issue 'parking charge notices' either by placing a ticket on your windscreen hoping the driver will cough up or by seeking the keeper details from DVLA then sending a speculative invoice to the keeper hoping that the keeper will pay.
they try to make their parking charge notices look official and use bully / threatening tactics to persuade the driver / keeper to pay up. this often works because the general public are largely ignorant of the legal position and get concerned about the cost of defending the charge. most of the tickets are, ultimately, unenforceable.
more details on pepipoo web site
That's what I was thinking too. Nice to see I'm not mad in thinking so.they issue 'parking charge notices' either by placing a ticket on your windscreen hoping the driver will cough up or by seeking the keeper details from DVLA then sending a speculative invoice to the keeper hoping that the keeper will pay.
they try to make their parking charge notices look official and use bully / threatening tactics to persuade the driver / keeper to pay up. this often works because the general public are largely ignorant of the legal position and get concerned about the cost of defending the charge. most of the tickets are, ultimately, unenforceable.
more details on pepipoo web site
Also, "they" shouldn't be allowed to obtain keeper details from the DVLA, as they aren't the law.
Hol said:
Tough st. You don’t make the rules.
My mother is disabled and I’d like to point out your obvious centre of the universe complex if you think life’s niceties only apply to other people.
The fact that you looking for excuses make it worse.
Ok, OK unbunch those panties!t. You don’t make the rules.My mother is disabled and I’d like to point out your obvious centre of the universe complex if you think life’s niceties only apply to other people.
The fact that you looking for excuses make it worse.
Anyone can make up whatever rules they want, but can they be enforced legally was my question.
As to parking there whether you should or shouldn't is down to (as I stated) the individual's moral compass.
I certainly did not say I do it, or have any sort of importance complex.
BTW my father was disabled too, before he passed away recently. So what's your point?
Don't be so quick to judge other people's circumstances. Numbnuts
In a nut shell police, council some other specific bodies issue a fixed penalty notice type fine which in enforced generally in a magistrate’s court if not address/ paid.
Private car park fixed penalty charges and civil and not enforceable in criminal courts. They dress them up like official notices and use legal speak to make you pay.
I personally pay to park in private car parks etc, but have fell foul of getting a ticket when at an airport we stopped the car for 30 seconds to change driver and a £60 penalty notice arrived on the doorstep.
I replied to say thanks but no thanks not paying.
Then just ignored all further correspondence, Bailiff threats etc, and after about 4 letters heard nothing more.
Private car park fixed penalty charges and civil and not enforceable in criminal courts. They dress them up like official notices and use legal speak to make you pay.
I personally pay to park in private car parks etc, but have fell foul of getting a ticket when at an airport we stopped the car for 30 seconds to change driver and a £60 penalty notice arrived on the doorstep.
I replied to say thanks but no thanks not paying.
Then just ignored all further correspondence, Bailiff threats etc, and after about 4 letters heard nothing more.
Rufus Stone said:
The PPC can seek to levy a charge against the registered keeper if the driver breaches the terms of use of the land and they comply with the legislation to hold the registered keeper liable.
Subject to silly things like having land owner authority etc, just have a contract with a tenant doesn't mean they have any lawful authority.The terms have to be reasonable and the signage must meet the test in Barry Vs Parking Eye 2015.
SuperPav said:
Ignoring the OP's moral compass for a second....
The reason they can "fine" you as you put it, is that they're not fining you, but you enter into a contract when you park on their private land. The terms of the contract are what binds you, and when they issue you a charge or claim, it's because you're in breach of the contract.
If they follow the necessary rules when enforcing the terms of the contract, then you need to pay, or go to court and fight it out there.
If their contract/terms and conditions for allowing you to park (for free or for a charge) state that e.g. only blue badge holders can park in a disabled bay, or only parents with children can park in parent and child spaces, or only EV's are allowed in EV spaces, then that is the terms you need to respect.
If you don't like those terms, you can park somewhere else, although if you think the council (who CAN issue genuine fines/penalties) will be any more lenient with regards to your hypothetical occupation of a disabled bay, I think you'll find yourself disappointed
I'm loving all the assumptions relating to my position on this.The reason they can "fine" you as you put it, is that they're not fining you, but you enter into a contract when you park on their private land. The terms of the contract are what binds you, and when they issue you a charge or claim, it's because you're in breach of the contract.
If they follow the necessary rules when enforcing the terms of the contract, then you need to pay, or go to court and fight it out there.
If their contract/terms and conditions for allowing you to park (for free or for a charge) state that e.g. only blue badge holders can park in a disabled bay, or only parents with children can park in parent and child spaces, or only EV's are allowed in EV spaces, then that is the terms you need to respect.
If you don't like those terms, you can park somewhere else, although if you think the council (who CAN issue genuine fines/penalties) will be any more lenient with regards to your hypothetical occupation of a disabled bay, I think you'll find yourself disappointed
Something I did not state in the original post. merely asked a question regarding the legality of enforcing fines / charges.
As to the contract idea, I see your point, and if clearly stated then it's up to the individual if they choose to abide by the terms, or not and face any consequences for their actions. But, if not clearly signposted only implied that would be an interesting scenario.
bobbybee said:
Hol said:
Tough st. You don’t make the rules.
My mother is disabled and I’d like to point out your obvious centre of the universe complex if you think life’s niceties only apply to other people.
The fact that you looking for excuses make it worse.
Ok, OK unbunch those panties!t. You don’t make the rules.My mother is disabled and I’d like to point out your obvious centre of the universe complex if you think life’s niceties only apply to other people.
The fact that you looking for excuses make it worse.
Anyone can make up whatever rules they want, but can they be enforced legally was my question.
As to parking there whether you should or shouldn't is down to (as I stated) the individual's moral compass.
I certainly did not say I do it, or have any sort of importance complex.
BTW my father was disabled too, before he passed away recently. So what's your point?
Don't be so quick to judge other people's circumstances. Numbnuts
Edited by Hol on Friday 28th June 13:37
Responder.First said:
Subject to silly things like having land owner authority etc, just have a contract with a tenant doesn't mean they have any lawful authority.
The terms have to be reasonable and the signage must meet the test in Barry Vs Parking Eye 2015.
As I already posted in another thread which you obviously didnt bother reading here is it again for youThe terms have to be reasonable and the signage must meet the test in Barry Vs Parking Eye 2015.
pavarotti1980 said:
Beavis v Parking Eye was slightly more nuanced than just landowner authority despite PPCs using this as some kind of magic word to suddenly make all tickets more authentic. It was more around the "concept" of penalties and determined that £85 was not extravagant or unconscionable, mainly due to the fact Parking Eye actually paid the landowner an annual fee to operate which is uncommon as their income streams ordinarily rely solely on contract breaches and subsequent payment
Half decent summary here https://www.fenwickelliott.com/research-insight/ne...
Half decent summary here https://www.fenwickelliott.com/research-insight/ne...
Hol said:
Tough st. You don’t make the rules.
My mother is disabled and I’d like to point out your obvious centre of the universe complex if you think life’s niceties only apply to other people.
The fact that you looking for excuses make it worse.
Agree about disabled parking spaces, I’d never park in one of those. I’m always tempted to use the parent & child places though. t. You don’t make the rules.My mother is disabled and I’d like to point out your obvious centre of the universe complex if you think life’s niceties only apply to other people.
The fact that you looking for excuses make it worse.
bobbybee said:
Tye Green said:
private companies can't issue fines.
they issue 'parking charge notices' either by placing a ticket on your windscreen hoping the driver will cough up or by seeking the keeper details from DVLA then sending a speculative invoice to the keeper hoping that the keeper will pay.
they try to make their parking charge notices look official and use bully / threatening tactics to persuade the driver / keeper to pay up. this often works because the general public are largely ignorant of the legal position and get concerned about the cost of defending the charge. most of the tickets are, ultimately, unenforceable.
more details on pepipoo web site
That's what I was thinking too. Nice to see I'm not mad in thinking so.they issue 'parking charge notices' either by placing a ticket on your windscreen hoping the driver will cough up or by seeking the keeper details from DVLA then sending a speculative invoice to the keeper hoping that the keeper will pay.
they try to make their parking charge notices look official and use bully / threatening tactics to persuade the driver / keeper to pay up. this often works because the general public are largely ignorant of the legal position and get concerned about the cost of defending the charge. most of the tickets are, ultimately, unenforceable.
more details on pepipoo web site
Also, "they" shouldn't be allowed to obtain keeper details from the DVLA, as they aren't the law.
Would you say the same if your car was hit by a hit & run driver and your insurance company want their details?
They aren't "the law" either.
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